[LT] Photos of Lithuania

[vilniusguide]

Originally Posted by katsuma

PS2. Oh, I forgot to ask. Me no speak Lithuanian, so can you tell me what that poster is about and how it relates to Wiwulski?

Don't know who that Wiwulski is, but Vivulskis was a participant of the Lithuanian art exhibitions together with Rimša, Zmuidzinavičius and other Lithuanian guys just like himself.

The statement that “the first Lithuanian Art Exhibition took part in 1907” appears already a truism of Lithuanian art history. However, it is not precise and reflects complexities and contradictions of art history. For an art historian the assumption that Lithuania lags behind other European countries by an entire century (the exhibiting tradition in Europe goes back to the late 18th century) is even embarrassing. Should one assume that prior to 1907 Lithuania had no artists, exhibitions, art audience, or the need for art? In fact, the first art exhibitions organized in Lithuania in the early 19th century presented local artists, professors and students of Vilnius Art School. The 1907 exhibition and subsequent ones marked the beginning of the national art project. These shows featured artists who perceived themselves above all as Lithuanians and were committed to the modern nationalist agenda in their art.

more: http://test.svs.lt/?Daile;Number(182);Article(4345);

He couldn't participate in the very first, but was participant of all the others.
Sad sad, that he did not choose Polish or Russian art exhibitions taking place in Vilnius at the same time, but i think Samogitian elves and dwarfs threated and forced him to do so, so he could not show what die-hard, hardcore Polish patriot he was

[katsuma]

Oki doke. I shall browse around this stuff and reply tomorrow.

[Depeched]

Pakruojis manor
Located in east from Šiauliai city.
Buildings built by Theodor von der Ropp till 1840.

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

again..photos by jonas_j

Steigvilai windmill

image hosted on flickr

by jonas_j

[Depeched]

Taujenai manor
located in north from Ukmergė
Built by Pietro de Rossi

image hosted on flickr

by Jonas_J

image hosted on flickr

by Jonas_J

[Depeched]

Kretinga manor, located in Samogitia

One of Tiškevičiai manors

image hosted on flickr

By MariukasM

Palanga manor, located in Samogitia, on cost of Baltic sea

Another Tiškevičiai manor

image hosted on flickr

By MariukasM

Plungė manor, located in Samogitia

One of Oginskiai manor

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Photos by MariukasM

[Depeched]

Near Vilnius

image hosted on flickr

photo by Mariukas_M

[Depeched]

Rietavas church, located in Samogitia

built by Stuller, Steinbart

image hosted on flickr

photo by MariukasM

[Depeched]

Rokiškis manor in North Lithuania

Tiesenhausen/Tyzenhausai manor

image hosted on flickr

photo by Mariukas_M

image hosted on flickr

photo by Mariukas_M

Rokiškis neogothic church

image hosted on flickr

photo by Mariukas_M

[Varsben]

Originally Posted by depeched

Kretinga manor, located in Samogitia

One of Tiškevičiai manors

Palanga manor, located in Samogitia, on cost of Baltic sea

Another Tiškevičiai manor

Plungė manor, located in Samogitia

One of Oginskiai manor

Thanks for sharing photos of beautiful manors of Polish nobility:

The family Tyszkiewicz (Polish coat of arms – Leliwa).

The family Ogiński (member of the Princely Houses of Poland).

Originally Posted by depeched

By the way, people like Žebrauskas, Vivulskis, Kamarauskas, Romeris, Mickevičius, Sirokomlė and others called themselves as Lithuanians. For all of them Lithuania was their homeland

Exactly the same applies to such outstanding Lithuanians, as (for example):

Liucijus Želigovskis – born in Ašmena (former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, almost at today's Lithuanian border with Belarus), educated in Vilnius.

Juozas Pilsudskis - born in Zalavas (Švienčonys district, Lithuania), attended school in Vilnius.

I’m wondering why you didn’t mention them.

Now seriously: Yes, many of the outstanding figures of Polish history/culture called themselves "Lithuanians"; some of them - but only a minority - also spoke Lithuanian (usually as a second language). But the "Lithuania" they referred to, was a Polish- (or bilingual-) speaking Lithuania, closely connected to Poland in one single state-entity. You are carefully avoiding any mention of living persons (or who died only recently), such as Tadeusz Konwicki (writer/film director) or Czesław Miłosz (poet, Nobel-prize winner) and many other people outstanding in contemporary Poland's culture, who still refer to themselves as "Lithuanians", but without renouncing even a bit of their Polishness. What aren't you mentioning them? Maybe because they dislike Lithuania's contemporary nationalism with its marked anti-Polish bias?

This is a complicated matter that by far exceeds the current attempts to "annex" history by Lithuanian nationalists, who are trying to forget the powerful impact of Polish culture/language in a large part of current Lithuanian territory.

Every Polish child learns at school the opening words of Adam Mickiewicz's poem "Pan Tadeusz":

"Lithuania, my homeland. You are like health, your worth is known only to those who have lost you..."

The unpleasant truth (for Lithuanian nationalists) is, that Mickiewicz had in mind a Lithuania very different from the nationalistic Lithuania of today, that wholly rejects the common Polish-Lithuanian heritage (by forcefully "Lithuanising" it). HIS Lithuania was Polish-speaking or bilingual Polish-Lithuanian at most, united politically with Poland and friendly to Poland, sharing her destinies as one. Today's Lithuania has chosen a completely different path. I have no problem with that, but, if so, then Lithuanians must bear all the consequences of the nationalistic and Polonophobic approach. Not only those that please them, but also those that are uncomfortable for them.

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by Varsben

Thanks for sharing photos of beautiful manors of Polish nobility:

The family Tyszkiewicz (Polish coat of arms – Leliwa).

The family Ogiński (member of the Princely Houses of Poland).



Exactly the same applies to such outstanding Lithuanians, as (for example):

Liucijus Želigovskis – born in Ašmena (former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, almost at today's Lithuanian border with Belarus), educated in Vilnius.

Juozas Pilsudskis, born in Zalavas (Švienčonys district, Lithuania), attended school in Vilnius.

I’m wondering why you didn’t mention them.

Now seriously: Yes, many of the outstanding figures of Polish history/culture called themselves "Lithuanians"; some of them - but only a minority - also spoke Lithuanian (usually as a second language). But the "Lithuania" they referred to, was a Polish- (or bilingual-) speaking Lithuania, closely connected to Poland in one single state-entity. You are carefully avoiding any mention of living persons (or who died only recently), such as Tadeusz Konwicki (writer/film director) or Czesław Miłosz (poet, Nobel-prize winner) and many other people outstanding in contemporary Poland's culture, who still refer to themselves as "Lithuanians", but without renouncing even a bit of their Polishness. What aren't you mentioning them? Maybe because they dislike Lithuania's contemporary nationalism with its marked anti-Polish bias?

This is a complicated matter that by far exceeds the current attempts to "annex" history by Lithuanian nationalists, who are trying to forget the powerful impact of Polish culture/language in a large part of current Lithuanian territory.

Every Polish child learns at school the opening words of Adam Mickiewicz's poem "Pan Tadeusz":

"Lithuania, my homeland. You are like health, your worth is known only to those who have lost you..."

The problem is, Mickiewicz had in mind a Lithuania very different from the nationalistic Lithuania of today, that wholly rejects the common Polish-Lithuanian heritage (by forcefully "Lithuanising" it). HIS Lithuania was Polish-speaking or bilingual Polish-Lithuanian at most, united politically with Poland and friendly to Poland, sharing her destinies as one. Today's Lithuania has chosen a completely different path. I have no problem with that, but, if so, then Lithuanians must bear all the consequences of the nationalistic and Polonophobic approach. Not only those that please them, but also those that are uncomfortable for them.



You are a typical Polish chauvinist-expansionist. Your claim that Mazovia is Polish land, is a Polish chauvinistic lie. It's Lithuanian Mazovija.

The truth is, Mazovija is ancient Lithuanian land, as proved by the massive presence of Lithuanians in its heart in times when Lithuania was not yet part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - for example in 1258-1263, 1294, 1350, 1353, 1368, 1370, 1376 the Lithuanian language was spoken here as much as Polish. Or more, as local Polish-speakers were then promptly "silenced" by Lithuanians (the rightful owners of the province) by chopping off their heads.

Besides, you should know - you Polish chauvinist - that Mazovija was incorporated into expansionist-imperialist Poland only in 1526. Therefore, evidently it's not ethnically Polish.

As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as a Poland-country, because most the territory of "Poland" is ancient Lithuanian land. Also, "Polish" artists, scientists, writers, nobility etc., are actually Lithuanians (even if they don't know it and by mistake they speak Polish instead of Lithuanian). Therefore, the only thing that really exists is Lenkija, an ancient Lithuanian Little Duchy where to your sadness people speak a weird dialect called "Polish".




Now seriously: vilniusguide, your Polonophobia really exceeds any reasonable limits. As does your blind nationalism.

Amazing that these oustanding Lithuanians had in mind a Lithuania very different from the nationalistic Lithuania of today, but they really had in mind about today nationalistic Poland. I think that these noblemans would turn around in coffin if would know what nonsenses thses poles are talking with ignorance to Grand Duchy of Lithuania culture and local culture. As I see you think that these people called themselves "Lithuanians" jus for fun.

What a nonsenses you are talkin about Mazovija?

Basically, current Poland thinking (of course not all) is very strange. When we are start to talk about East Prussia or former large territories of Germany which is now part of Poland You always ignore this former culture which was not polish, and, of course talk about that these territories were always Polish. I forgot to mention that all North part of "real" Poland also was in German culture confluence, but you also always ignore this. What a strange nation thinking, it is simmilar for me to current Russia. Sadness thing is that when I create thread about Lithuania, you always start to to talk about that everything is Polish.. Omg.. It so amazing. Sometimes you forgot that here, almost 600 years, there was Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and no one of this country citizens, never called themselves as Pole.
When Germans remember their lost territories you also will start to talk that you are chauvinists and nationalists, but there aren't here other chauvinists and nationalists as You - Polish guys. Sadness for you. Someday you wil have a lot of problems, as nation, from this thinking. And I suggest to vilnius guide and others just ignore these polish complexes. And continue this thread. Meybe they will shut up.

[Varsben]

Originally Posted by Depeched

Amazing that these oustanding Lithuanians had in mind a Lithuania very different from the nationalistic Lithuania of today, but they really had in mind about today nationalistic Poland. I think that these noblemans would turn around in coffin if would know what nonsenses thses poles are talking with ignorance to Grand Duchy of Lithuania culture and local culture. As I see you think that these people called themselves "Lithuanians" jus for fun.

Lithuanian nationalists - like yourself - don't understand (or they pretend not to understand) the basic principle - that most if not all of the people you mentioned as "pure Lithuanians", considered themselves patriots of the POLISH-LITHUANIAN COMMONWEALTH. Not of a nationalistic/Polonophobic Lithuania. They are now revolving in their coffins when they see the contemporary Lithuanian hostility against Poland.

Someday you wil have a lot of problems, as nation, from this thinking.

Somehow I don't feel anxious about your threats against my nation. They only confirm the weird hostility many (not all) Lithuanians have been demonstrating against Poland ever since your country regained independence. But the huge majority of Poles don't reciprocate that hostility. But we won't accept your distortion of history, that's all.

Btw, Polish-German relations have nothing to do with the topic of our discussion, so leave it.

[leszekbombka]

Stop that flamewar, please! Poland and Mini Poland should be friends!

[vilniusguide]

Originally Posted by Varsben

Thanks for sharing photos of beautiful manors of Polish nobility:

The family Tyszkiewicz (Polish coat of arms – Leliwa).

The family Ogiński (member of the Princely Houses of Poland).

None of these were Polish, Dear Falanga.

Oginskiai were Russians from Smolensk, Rurikids. Is Smolensk a Polish city, Pan Troll? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik_Dynasty
They made relatives with Lithuanians like Gediminids. All the Polish chauvinists.. ups, patriots... know perfectly, that Gediminas is just regular Polish name.
They settled in Lithuania proper long time ago before the first Polish colonists could come to these lands and of course used Cyrillic script, that after seeing it, all Polish chauvinists begin to cry.
Also their surname derives from the village of Uogintai near Kaišiadorys. Could you explain all of us, what uog-int-ai means in Polish?
Co f**king uogintai znaczy po Polsku, huh? Nic?

And Tiškevičiai from Kiiv (a nice Polish city, Pan Falanga??). Their first member of the family was true Polish guy with the name - Тишка (lithuanised from Тимофей) Иван Львович (Skumina) and his son - Василий.

So be so kind, if you wanna tell something about these great nobles of The Grand Duchy Of Lithuania, call them Tiškevičiai, Oginskiai or Тышкевiчы i Агінскія.

P.S. I'm glad Your eyes are bleeding seeing this Cyrillic letters, because I know Poles like them.

Originally Posted by Varsben

Exactly the same applies to such outstanding Lithuanians, as (for example):

Liucijus Želigovskis – born in Ašmena (former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, almost at today's Lithuanian border with Belarus), educated in Vilnius.

Juozas Pilsudskis, born in Zalavas (Švienčonys district, Lithuania), attended school in Vilnius.

Nobody cares about these traitors. There are some in every nation. Better tell us something about your inspirational figures like Eligijusz Niewiadomski or also the great Polish patriot Feliks Dzierżyński (the analogue of those two Lithuanian traitors).
And if you wanna tell us something about the Patriots of Lithuania, begin from the story of Albertas Goštautas.

Originally Posted by Varsben

Every Polish child learns at school the opening words of Adam Mickiewicz's poem "Pan Tadeusz":
"Lithuania, my homeland. You are like health, your worth is known only to those who have lost you..."

I am really not interested in what every Polish kid learn. They may learn even " Kirgizia, my homeland" and believe that such words is Polish patriotic hymn and later write in the threads about Bishkek and Kirgizia what a nice Polish city and country it is if they believe that Kirgizia written in Polish means Poland.
Don't waste our time, better go to the threads of Istanbul (Мiцкевiч was there!!!) and write what a nice Polish city it is.

Originally Posted by Varsben

The problem is, Mickiewicz had in mind a Lithuania very different from the nationalistic Lithuania of today, that wholly rejects the common Polish-Lithuanian heritage (by forcefully "Lithuanising" it). HIS Lithuania was Polish-speaking or bilingual Polish-Lithuanian at most, united politically with Poland and friendly to Poland, sharing her destinies as one. Today's Lithuania has chosen a completely different path. I have no problem with that, but, if so, then Lithuanians must bear all the consequences of the nationalistic and Polonophobic approach. Not only those that please them, but also those that are uncomfortable for them.

Mickevičius had in mind what he had in mind. You would like to read, that he wrote "Polsko, ojczyzna moja", but instead he wrote Litwo. What a nice Polish patriot!
If i write "Lithuania, my beloved country" in English, that probably make me into the ethnic English man the patriot of the Great Britain!!

Friendship ended when you crossed the limits of the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Curzon line and brutally occupied Lithuanian lands in the 1920s, later closed 4000 Lithuanian language schools and libraries of Vilnius region in the 30s, in 19 years brought 88 113 colonists from the ethnic Poland to Vilnius and expelled all the prominent Lithuanian figures from the city (more that a 1000 people). A lot of Lithuanians, Belarussians (e.g. Клаўдзі Дуж-Душэўскі) and Jews (hundreds of them were killed for no reason in the 1919-1920 by Poles) also were forced to leave to the Independent Lithuania.
Read Pranas Bieliauskas, Liudas Gira (together with 40 other Lithuanians was sentenced to death by the Polish falanga authorities for no reason, just because he was Lithuanian cultural figure, but later expelled from his native Vilnius), Jurgis Matulaitis diaries what a great friend you are.

The rest of Your message is just perfect example of desperate psychosis and I will not answer it.

[Depeched]

Let it be for you, knowledge is your troubles. Go back to your threads about glory Poland and continue this shit there.

Let's continue about Lithuania

Nemunas river - largest in Lithuania

image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved by vytas999

image hosted on flickr

photo by vytas999

image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved by vytas999

image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved byRambynas

Nemunas delta in spring

image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved by eden__destinations

[anlukas]

Originally Posted by leszekbombka

Stop that flamewar, please! Poland and Mini Poland should be friends!

Friends?. Sooner poles will speak Russian.
Cato the Elder said Carthage must be destroyed (Ceterum censeo Carthaginem Delenda esse (Latin: "And besides, I think Carthage must be destroyed")

[katsuma]

Originally Posted by katsuma

Oki doke. I shall browse around this stuff and reply tomorrow.

It's me again, as promised.

That article you quoted is a quite interesting one, as the Lithuanian author confirms what we (Poles) have been often pointing out to you in common discussions and flamewars about Vilnius/Wilno.

The early 20th-century Lithuanian artists dubbed their art shows “first Lithuanian art exhibitions” and identified the page they turned with the beginning of a national art history. This approach, however, made some sense. Born in Lithuanian province, they studied art in Western European cities. When they arrived in Vilnius in the early 20th century, they found themselves in an entirely alien city. At the time, the historical capital of Lithuania had only two percent of Lithuanians: the multinational city was run by Jewish, Poles, Russians. Nobody spoke Lithuanian in Vilnius, culture and art was not Lithuanian either. So what did the young Lithuanian artists do in the capital city of Vilnius? They broke in and proved – something that strikes us as a strange idea today – yet far from self-evident back then, that Lithuanians also have professional art.

But coming back to Wiwulski, I've found an info that he took part in one of the Lithuanian art exhibitions (1908), but you're saying that he participated in all except the first one (1908-14). I wouldn't mind seeing a source for that.

Now, according to the sources I've come across, Wiwulski came from a Polish family, who may've been of Samogitian and Ruthenian origin (Wiwulski on the paternal and Karpuszko on the maternal side). Wiwulski's family used the Polish coat of arms "Prus", and the members of both Wiwulski and Karpuszko families had been soldiers in Polish army and took part in the January Uprising 1861, after which they were harrassed by Russian authorities and lost their land estates, with some family members punished by expulsion to Siberia.

As already pointed out, he was the designer of the monument on Battle of Grunwald in Kraków, which was opened in 1910 on the occasion of 500-year anniversary of the battle. And in 1919 he was member of the Polish self-defence units in Vilnius ("Samoobrona Wileńska").

As also stated before, the inscriptions on his grave on the Rossa Cemetary are in Polish.



Further info (in Polish): http://www.pogon.lt/Fundacja/Wilnian.../wiwulski.html , http://www.wilnoteka.lt/pl/video/stu...fu-wiwulskiego


Now, from what I've managed to find, those Lithuanian art exhibitions 1907-14 were organised in the house of a guy called Petras Vileišis, who was born into a peasant family in Samogitia. Maybe he would've influenced Wiwulski, whose family came from the same region as well, on taking part in such exhibition, who knows...

Anyway, I suppose, at the end of the day we certainly don't have to agree on his nationality and/or ethnicity. We'll keep calling him a Pole from the family of Samogitian & Ruthenian origin, and you can call him Lithuanian. But if you present him as a Lithuanian e.g. on SSC threads, you can expect some involvement from our side.

Originally Posted by Depeched

Kretinga manor, located in Samogitia

One of Tiškevičiai manors

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7115/7...fc74903b_b.jpg

Palanga manor, located in Samogitia, on cost of Baltic sea

Another Tiškevičiai manor

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7272/7...b29ac068_b.jpg

Plungė manor, located in Samogitia

One of Oginskiai manor

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7265/7...2af67935_b.jpg

(...)

As this is an English-language thread and not a Lithuanian one, please use the true, internationally recognised names of those noble Polish families from the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, i.e. princes & counts Tyszkiewicz, Ogiński, Radziwiłł, Sapieha, etc.

In that respect and in line with the topic of this thread, let me present a few other pics from Lithuania as well.


Epitaph in Latin & Polish on the tomb of Teodor Ogiński in Kronie/Kruonis:



...and its translation into Lithuanian:



(as a comparison, here is the epitaph of Michał Kleofas Ogiński in Florence, Italy, where he had moved ca. 10 years before his death in 1833: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Firenze_Oginski.jpg)


Epitaph of Jerzy Tyszkiewicz in the Vilnius Cathedral:




The examples of other graves of Tyszkiewicz family in Lithuania:

Eustachy Tyszkiewicz (Rossa Cemetary, Vilnius)



Mikołaj Tyszkiewicz




Sarcophagi of Radziwiłł family in the crypt in Kiejdany/Kedainai, including the one of Janusz Radziwiłł.








The pics of those and lots of other tombs/epitaphs can be found in a thread in the Polish SSC section related to the traces of Polish heritage in Lithuania and Latvia: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=865650

[vilniusguide]

Originally Posted by anlukas

Friends?. Sooner poles will speak Russian.
Cato the Elder said Carthage must be destroyed (Ceterum censeo Carthaginem Delenda esse (Latin: "And besides, I think Carthage must be destroyed")

Wise words. Poles long been friends with Russians. Since 1939, I suppose. Oh, wait - 1773. No wait, 1655, 1508 )))
Good luck in the future Cartag... Eh, Варшава.

[vilniusguide]

Originally Posted by katsuma

That article you quoted is a quite interesting one, as the Lithuanian author confirms what we (Poles) have been often pointing out to you in common discussions and flamewars about Vilnius/Wilno.

The author said there was small Lithuanian-speaking minority (language doesn't indicate nationality; e.g. Irish people, Catalan, Basque, etc.) in Vilnius in 1907 and it is true. Before 1905 there was a ban on Lithuanian language. Everyone, who tried to speak in Lithuanian in Vilnius, was sentenced to prison. The city was full of the Russian language plates, where was written - "Do not speak Lithuanian" and the streets full of Russian garrison soldiers. The exhibition was taking place only 2 years after the lift of the ban. All is clear here, no?
There are even more interesting articles like the diary of the vilnian priest Pranas Bieliauskas , who writes what was the situation in Vilnius in 1915-1919. For example in 1916 there was German census taking place in the city. The census was carried out by the locals. Local Poles were going to the German authorities to forbid the local Lithuanians to carry the census. They were partially successful, German authorities lowered the number of Lithuanians and hired more Poles to carry the census.
The next day the priest writes: I went to the Lithuanian dormitory near the Aušros Vartai and the Polish census-carriers were working. I've heard how they there yelling at Lithuanians "Write you are Polish, write You are Polish!".
Next week inscription. The priest tolds in the diary how in some of the churches of Vilnius Polish priests "forbade for the local Belarussian and Lithuanian Catholic population to speak their languages or write in the census, that they use these languages (the question of the census was the first language spoken not nationality) and threated, that God loves only Poles and that if they write they are Polish, they are not more welcomed to pray, that Churches are not waiting for such people."
This all was written in 1915-1919 diary of vilnian Lithuanian (the actual situation, facts not your pointless chauvinistic Polonocentric interpretations).
And so on. If You are interested more in "Polish" interwar Vilnius, read Liudas Gira or Arch-bishop Jurgis Matulaitis diaries, whose one inscription says: "I again was shocked seeing how in the Seminary of Vilnius, what was attended by 40 Belarussian Catholics, they were screamed at and told to write to the papers they are Poles and the next day those 40 Belarussians "disappeared" from the seminary and 40 Poles "appeared". One guy, who objected and didn't want to write, that he was Pole, was thrown away. 5 Lithuanians were also inscribed as Poles and two - thrown away". Later the Bishop himself must leave (just like all the other Lithuanians, the rest were brutally polonized as shown) this occupied city, that was made into chauvinistic-poisonous area...

Originally Posted by katsuma

Now, according to the sources I've come across, Wiwulski came from a patriotic Polish family, who may've been of Samogitian and Ruthenian origin (Wiwulski on the paternal and Karpuszko on the maternal side). Wiwulski's family used the Polish coat of arms "Prus", and the members of both Wiwulski and Karpuszko families had been soldiers in Polish army and took part in the January Uprising 1861, after which they were harrassed by Russian authorities and lost their land estates.

I am glad U got the sources, what say clearly, that he had no Polish blood. Patriot of Poland of Samogitian and Belrussian origin.
The same like French of Algerian and Marocan origin? French Patriot. Zinedine Zidane is definitely ethnic Pole... eh, French.
But yes, the coat of arms is a nice indication of ethnicity. He had Polish coat of arms, was born in Poland to Polish parents, knew only Polish, was dancing mazurka, eating bigos and praying only to Polish God? True Polish patriot.
Screw that he was Samogitian, participated in Lithuanian National exhibitions, called himself Lithuanian, was willing to work to Lithuania (his own words), was the best friend with genuine Lithuanians (not the fake ones and traitors like Pilsudski, who knew perfectly Lithuanian, but was working for Poland and was against the language of his ancestors and grandfathers,- a shame for his nation) with whom he spoke in his native language, but THE COAT OF ARMS!

Here is a coat of arms of the 1863 uprising with three Polish hens, eh, birds.


Also I have here a coat of arms of Tiškevičiai. It is Polish as You said, could You please translate what is written in Polish there? I can not understand. My weak Polish

[vilniusguide]

Originally Posted by katsuma

As already pointed out, he was the designer of the monument on Battle of Grunwald in Kraków, which was opened in 1910 on the occasion of 500-year anniversary of the battle. And in 1919 he was member of the Polish self-defence units in Vilnius ("Samoobrona Wileńska").

So what? He made a monument and this made him into Pole? Andrius Ambrasas, Lithuanian architect, prepared a project of the National Museum of Latvia, also designed a building in Riga, that was named the building of the year, he is now Latvian, right?
Vivulskis made a project of Šiluva chapel, about what he said, that it is his gift for his Homeland, for Lithuania, Samogitia, where he tried to fuse art nouveau with Lithuanian peasant, local architecture, Lithuanian traditional ornaments, etc. He was also a good friend with the priest of Šiluva, Lithuanian guy (already mentioned his surname).
Self-defense was named "Belarussian-Lithuanian" and was to defend the city against the Bolsheviks Russians. STRONG proof of Vivulskis nationality.

Originally Posted by katsuma

As also stated before, the inscriptions on his grave on the Rossa Cemetary are in Polish.

For Lords sake, STOP MOLESTING LITHUANIAN NAMES!!
"Rasa" means "dew" in Lithuanian also is Lithuanian Godess.
This name was there long before the first Polish colonist came to Vilnius!

The tomb was made semi-illegally by the Polish organization in 1998 and has nothing to do with the reality. There is a tomb of Čiurlionis nearby, a good friend of Vivulskis and it is written in Lithuanian.
http://www.bernardinai.lt/straipsnis...kio-kapo/52643
All the Lithuanian books, museums write Vivulskis like Vivulskis, in original form where Boleslaw Balzukiewicz is written in Polish form everywhere. The case is closed.

Originally Posted by katsuma

Further info (in Polish): http://www.pogon.lt/Fundacja/Wilnian.../wiwulski.html , http://www.wilnoteka.lt/pl/video/stu...fu-wiwulskiego

What the point of showing Polish Romantic Belles-lettres?
There are a lot of books in Lithuanian, also some biographies written by the close friends of Vivulskis like Rimša and everything is clear there.

Sabaliauskas "Apie p. Vivulskio senelius", Viltis, 1910 or K. Jasėnas "Visuotinė meno istorija" 1923, Jelgava.
Also priest L. Šapkevičius, who personaly knew Vivulskis, issued his short biography L. Šapkevičius "Antanas Vivulskis (1877-1919)", Vairas, 1929, Nr. 2.

Petras Rimša also personally knew Vivulskis and also corresponded with him. He wrote down his memoirs, where many pages are dedicated to Vivulskis personality, that were issued in 1964: J. Rimantas "Petras Rimša pasakoja.", Vilnius.

Nijolė Lukšionytė-Tolvaišienė's Vivulskis' biography is undoubtedly the best, all his letters, that are stored in Vilnius libraries, all the memoirs of his friends, all the previous books about the architect were reviewed.

Originally Posted by katsuma

Now, from what I've managed to find, those Lithuanian art exhibitions 1907-14 were organised in the house of a guy called Petras Vileišis, who was born into a peasant family in Samogitia. Maybe he would've influenced Wiwulski, whose family came from the same region as well, on taking part in such exhibition, who knows...

Yes, go ahead interpret his choice. No, stop, I've told You already, these were Samogitian dwarfs and elves, together with Martians, who told him to do so! Actually he even wasn't there, as he used one of those, You know, loopers and appeared in the Polish exhibition!

Originally Posted by katsuma

We'll keep calling him a Polefrom the family of Samogitian & Ruthenian origin.

Go for the Nobel prize for the new, progressive form of the Nationality definition.

Originally Posted by katsuma

As this is an English-language thread and not a Lithuanian one, please use the true, internationally recognised names of those noble Polish families from the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, i.e. princes & counts Tyszkiewicz, Ogiński, Radziwiłł, Sapieha, etc.

Bingo, English language, that's why we need Polish forms of those Ruthenian, Russian and Lithuanian nobles names from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

Originally Posted by katsuma

In that respect and in line with the topic of this thread, let me present a few other pics from Lithuania as well.
Epitaph in Latin & Polish on the tomb of Teodor Ogiński in Kronie/Kruonis:


...and its translation into Lithuanian:



(as a comparison, here is the epitaph of Michał Kleofas Ogiński in Florence, Italy, where he had moved ca. 10 years before his death in 1833: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Firenze_Oginski.jpg)


Epitaph of Jerzy Tyszkiewicz in the Vilnius Cathedral:




The examples of other graves of Tyszkiewicz family in Lithuania:

Eustachy Tyszkiewicz (Rossa Cemetary, Vilnius)



Mikołaj Tyszkiewicz




Sarcophagi of Radziwiłł family in the crypt in Kiejdany/Kedainai, including the one of Janusz Radziwiłł.








The pics of those and lots of other tombs/epitaphs can be found in a thread in the Polish SSC section related to the traces of Polish heritage in Lithuania and Latvia: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=865650

AGAIN, WOULD YOU STOP MOLESTING LITHUANIAN TOWN NAMES????

The rest is just ridiculous and I am really sorry for the people, who waste their time looking for every Polish inscription in other countries as a proof of some megalomania, schizophrenic conceptions like "The heritage of Poland in Lithuania".

But I welcome Italians and Bulgarians to visit their "Bulgarian heritage of Lithuania" and "Roman heritage of Lithuania" as before the 18th century all the inscriptions were in Church Slavonic or Latin languages. Also all the documents of Kaunas were written in German before 1547, I welcome Germans in their ethnic city Kowen, come to see "The German heritage of Kowen"!

Lithuanian law codex, mid 16th century. Written in the Church Slavonic - "Bulgarian heritage of former Bulgarian province of Lithuania".

wiki

Couple of my photos.
Here is tombstone of 16 c. Roman or Italian noble in the church of Bernardines in Vilnius. I judge so as the tombstone is in Latin. I saw hundreds such inscriptions in Vilnius, so I have made a conclusion, judging by zilions of such plates, birth metrics, etc., that prior to the XIX c. russification and colonisation (e.g. 173 Orthodox families from Volhynia were settled in 1907-1910 in Airėnai I and Airėnai II and so on) and brutal interwar polonisation of occupied Vilnius, it was a Roman city or am I wrong?









Tombs of Roman nobles in just one Vilnius church. Written in Latin. "Italian heritage of the former Italian province of Lithuania".

[katsuma]

Originally Posted by vilniusguide

The author said there was small Lithuanian-speaking minority (language doesn't indicate nationality; e.g. Irish people, Catalan, Basque, etc.) in Vilnius in 1907 and it is true. Before 1905 there was a ban on Lithuanian language. Everyone, who tried to speak in Lithuanian in Vilnius, was sentenced to prison. The city was full of the Russian language plates, where was written - "Do not speak Lithuanian" and the streets full of Russian garrison soldiers.

I don't get it... So the Lithuanian language was banned and the Polish was not? Do you think the Russian authorities considered Lithuanian language & culture as a threat for their rule?

Originally Posted by vilniusguide

There are even more interesting articles like the diary of the vilnian priest Pranas Bieliauskas , who writes what was the situation in Vilnius in 1915-1919.
(...)

Later the Bishop himself must leave (just like all the other Lithuanians, the rest were brutally polonized as shown) this occupied city, that was made into chauvinistic-poisonous area...

I don't know, it well maybe true... You poor thing.

BTW, you can use the largest font you want, but it wouldn't matter much or give your words more credibility.

Originally Posted by vilniusguide

I am glad U got the sources, what say clearly, that he had no Polish blood. Patriot of Poland of Samogitian and Belrussian origin.

Yes, I'm glad you've understood that.

A lot of Polish nobles from the former eastern territories ("szlachta kresowa") had medieval Lithuanian and/or Ruthenian ancestry. But those families decided to self-polonise along the course of history (mainly 16th-17th cent.), as a result of which the descendants living in the last 200 years were already Polish.

Originally Posted by vilniusguide

Screw that he was Samogitian, participated in Lithuanian National exhibitions, called himself Lithuanian, (...)

Józef Piłsudski & Lucjan Żeligowski called themselves Lithuanian. And Adam Mickiewicz as well, when he wrote in Polish "Lithuania, my homeland...".

But the thing is that we're talking about two kinds of people called "Lithuanians": (1) lithuanian Balts, and (2) polonised Lithuanians & Ruthenians (Litwini) from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

BTW, have you read this article of one of the Lithuanian historians?

One of the quotes: "It is also noteworthy that Pilsudski called himself Lithuanian and was puzzled until the end of his life about what all these peasants and Augustinas Voldemaras (prime minister in the inter-war Republic of Lithuania) had in common with the Lithuanian nation."

Also I have here a coat of arms of Tiškevičiai. It is Polish as You said, could You please translate what is written in Polish there? I can not understand. My weak Polish

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iewicz.svg.png

Well, it appears you're running out of arguments...

Have you heard e.g. of the motto "Leopolis Semper Fidelis" and the coat of arms showing same?

Anyway, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania had no own heraldry. It was only at the Union of Horodło in 1413, when 47 selected GDL nobles were adopted by Polish families and granted Polish coat of arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_heraldry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlachta#Heraldry

PS. I'll reply to your last post tomorrow. Good night & sleep well.