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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:46 AM   #301
Iluminat
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Modernism is ugly!!
That's just your opinion. If you like old styles more than modernism, international style, neomodernism etc. I can respect that but I have a hard time understanding why people with this kind of taste have to be so aggressive it's not like you can prove your subjective opinions so why such hybris
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:49 AM   #302
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Buddy, I have seen plans for this building. It is heavily criticized and features many modernist elements. It's not an authentic reconstruction. Your whining is not rational.
What's not rational is adding a "modernist" section to a perfectly beautiful classical building that needs none of those "additions."

Seems like anyone can deface a monument for the sake of making it look "modern." It has, after all, happened many times before, sadly.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #303
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Don't you think they have more catching up to do???? Dresden is not an authentic reconstruction and what is Frankfurt rebuilding? A few townhouses?
Authentic reconstructions don't exist.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
That's just your opinion. If you like old styles more than modernism, international style, neomodernism etc. I can respect that but I have a hard time understanding why people with this kind of taste have to be so aggressive it's not like you can prove your subjective opinions so why such hybris
First of all, I'm irritated when I see new modern architecture at historic sites. Danzig/Gdansk is Prussian/Polish heritage and we should preserve its rich history (largest European port in 17th Century with a population of around 70.000, St. Mary's Church - largest brick church in the world, Gdansk Medieval Port Crane - Europe's oldest and largest medieval crane, famous Danzigers like Johann Hevelius or Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit).

The other thing is that "flats were larger as well. Most of flats/apartments in modern buildings in Gdansk Old Town are tiny (40-60 sqm) and prices are sky high (3000-4000 EUR per sqm). Of course, new houses are made of less durable materials (than bricks in historical reconstructions), have no ornaments/decorated facades (again, reduces the cost), have no basements (or they are available separately), drywall is used to make interior walls and ceilings (speedier and cheaper alternative), etc.".

Last thing, that's not just my opinion. Most of Germans (examples Potsdam, Dresden, Frankfurt, Berlin, Rostock) or Poles think the same. The only problem that I can see is $$$$.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; April 18th, 2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #305
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Authentic reconstructions don't exist.
I agree
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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #306
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Buddy, I have seen plans for this building. It is heavily criticized and features many modernist elements.
If you ask me, this reconstruction will look even better than Royal Palace in Warsaw.



Of course, I would prefer more complex project of Stadtschloss or cities like Elblag (see below)...

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; April 18th, 2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #307
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I agree
Heheheh - funny funny. It is a term used on this site.

You guys get what I mean.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
new houses are made of less durable materials (than bricks in historical reconstructions), have no ornaments/decorated facades (again, reduces the cost), have no basements (or they are available separately), drywall is used to make interior walls and ceilings (speedier and cheaper alternative), etc.".
I am pretty sure concrete and cement are still popular in Poland from what I saw on my trip there in 2011. Come to Canada where almost everything, except for skyscrapers and mid-rise buildings, is made from wood and the cheapest possible materials. We had strong winds in Toronto two days ago. My house was moving.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #309
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If you ask me, this reconstruction will look even better than Royal Palace in Warsaw.
No way.
Anyways, this stuff is too subjective.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
I am pretty sure concrete and cement are still popular in Poland from what I saw on my trip there in 2011. Come to Canada where almost everything, except for skyscrapers and mid-rise buildings, is made from wood and the cheapest possible materials. We had strong winds in Toronto two days ago. My house was moving.
so true, in Poland they put insulation and stucco over masonry, usually ceramic blocks, in Toronto its stucco and insulation over vapour barrier and plywood over a food frame - very cheap in Toronto.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #311
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Heheheh - funny funny. It is a term used on this site.

You guys get what I mean.
The only "authentic reconstruction" of an old town I know is Warsaw. But something like this isn't possible in a democracy.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #312
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so true, in Poland they put insulation and stucco over masonry, usually ceramic blocks, in Toronto its stucco and insulation over vapour barrier and plywood over a food frame - very cheap in Toronto.
I think the snobbish Europeans should travel overseas a bit more

They have so many good things there but they don't appreciate it.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #313
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The only "authentic reconstruction" of an old town I know is Warsaw. But something like this isn't possible in a democracy.
it's also very expensive even if you can convince the hoi polloi that it's better the other issue often cited is this despicable Venice Charter that most if not all conservators have signed onto that restricts or even forbids in many cases complete reconstructions.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:48 PM   #314
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The only "authentic reconstruction" of an old town I know is Warsaw. But something like this isn't possible in a democracy.
That's debatable.

Here is St. John's Church in Old Town Warsaw:

Before the war:



Today:

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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #315
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They choosed peobably the oldest version of this structure but you might argue they didn't really know how it looked like and it's just guessing.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
They choosed peobably the oldest version of this structure but you might argue they didn't really know how it looked like and it's just guessing.
It definitely didnt look like this. The tower that now stands to the right of the cathedral used to be in the middle of the facade (untill it collapsed). The modern look is Zachwatowicz's fantasy on so called baltic gothic
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Old April 19th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #317
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it's also very expensive even if you can convince the hoi polloi that it's better the other issue often cited is this despicable Venice Charter that most if not all conservators have signed onto that restricts or even forbids in many cases complete reconstructions.
Do you have any more info on this charter? Why the hell even sign something like this? Sounds like a scheme for some countries not to be able to reconstruct something properly. It's always people that get in the way of progress.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #318
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Do you have any more info on this charter? Why the hell even sign something like this? Sounds like a scheme for some countries not to be able to reconstruct something properly. It's always people that get in the way of progress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_Charter

Especially Article 15.
Funny thing, most of commitees were from France and Italy, They however had shitloads of authentic historic buildings(It seams like Italy lost one important monument during WWII... and It was reconstructed later! Who Guess which building or place ? ). I consider this document like as backstab to our post 1989 reconstruction process, It created a quite big mess right now, when we can see that almost every country around us are doing efforts to reconstruct their historic sites, and some people say us to our proposal of similar actions: 'Ney! look at article 15 in document from 1964, blahblah disneyland blahblah...'
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:45 AM   #319
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_Charter

Especially Article 15.
Funny thing, most of commitees were from France and Italy, They however had shitloads of authentic historic buildings(It seams like Italy lost one important monument during WWII... and It was reconstructed later! Who Guess which building or place ? ). I consider this document like as backstab to our post 1989 reconstruction process, It created a quite big mess right now, when we can see that almost every country around us are doing efforts to reconstruct their historic sites, and some people say us to our proposal of similar actions: 'Ney! look at article 15 in document from 1964, blahblah disneyland blahblah...'
Do you know which countries signed it? I did not see a listing. Such a stupid thing to sign.

Anyways, in large Polish cities there has been a lot of achievement. I am not sure why people are being so critical but this is the Polish nature unfortunately.

By the way, besides Dresden, which other other countries/cities are rebuilding on a massive scale? And I mean like Warsaw "massive"? I don't mean like a few buildings or streets. Even Dresden won't be as big as what was achieved in Warsaw or Wroclaw. But who knows.

Last edited by rychlik; April 19th, 2012 at 01:52 AM.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #320
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Old Town reconstructions (or we should say rather retroversions) began in the following cities in Poland:
- Elblag
- Kolobrzeg
- Szczecin
- Glogow
- Stargard Szczecinski (projects)

http://translate.google.com/translat...2C169.html%3F3

However these reconstructions include only a few streets.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; April 19th, 2012 at 02:08 PM.
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