daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 15th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #401
Karasek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lusatia Superior
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 804

St. Mary before WW2:





Karasek no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 15th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #402
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5284

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Ah c'mon, for a new development it's not that bad after all. Looks quite urban and pays its tribute to historical Danzig.
yes, I don't understand the disappontment either. Seen it and its quite elegant and fits the vernacular and context very well. Would love to buy a unit here.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 12:01 AM   #403
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5284

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
1. The church was heavily damaged in WW2.
2. The Polish Commies only reconstructed the Gothic parts, which was allegedly Polish architecture.
.
The commies also rebuilt or rather restored the baroque catholic royal chapel from the 1600's. From my understanding the church is Gothic with baroque and other manner of interior decoration added over the centuries. Gdansk throughout its history was neither totally German nor totally Polish and even the Germans usually spoke a dialect known as Pomeralian, which might be associated with the Kashubs who were expelled from the region by the Teutonic Knights, but I don't know much about that.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #404
Piotr - tricity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 3miasto
Posts: 876
Likes (Received): 142

Modern architecture in old town:

1.





fot. rysiekone

2.







fot. rysiekone

3.











fot. rysiekone

4.





fot. rysiekone

5.




Piotr - tricity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #405
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

^

Just "beautiful"
Especially when compared to reconstruction from Elblag...


New developments in Gdansk are really close to the cardbox houses in terms of quality and architectural beauty
image hosted on flickr

Last edited by erbse; June 16th, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #406
Batavier
"Covfefe" ??? Enjoy!
 
Batavier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Leiden
Posts: 857
Likes (Received): 831

I think those more modern buildings are quite nice, not everything has to be historical. In cities which weren't bombed and burned, a lot of those sort of buildings would have developed naturally. I think it suits Gdansk quite well, beside the historical reconstructions and the historical buildings!
Batavier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #407
wolfpaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 304
Likes (Received): 116

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batavier View Post
I think those more modern buildings are quite nice, not everything has to be historical. In cities which weren't bombed and burned, a lot of those sort of buildings would have developed naturally. I think it suits Gdansk quite well, beside the historical reconstructions and the historical buildings!
At least they pay homage to the earlier, indigenous style of the city and don't attempt to create something which can be seen anywhere from Hong Kong to Los Angeles. In so many historical cities the local flavour has been lost and replaced with something completely undistinctive.

I love the old burgher houses of northern Europe, lined up on narrow plots of land with their High Renaissance/Baroque gables and ornamentation, all painted in beautiful pastel colours. It's not something which was ever seen in England as timber-framing usually gave way to the regularity and restraint of neo-Classical terraces.
wolfpaw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 03:22 AM   #408
Judge Roy Beam
Registered User
 
Judge Roy Beam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
New developments in Gdansk are really close to the cardbox houses in terms of quality and architectural beauty
Agreed.

Admittedly, a tad better than the brutalist shit built in Germany from the 50's through the 80's however.

Last edited by erbse; June 16th, 2012 at 03:28 PM.
Judge Roy Beam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #409
Karasek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lusatia Superior
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 804

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
The commies also rebuilt or rather restored the baroque catholic royal chapel from the 1600's. From my understanding the church is Gothic with baroque and other manner of interior decoration added over the centuries. Gdansk throughout its history was neither totally German nor totally Polish and even the Germans usually spoke a dialect known as Pomeralian, which might be associated with the Kashubs who were expelled from the region by the Teutonic Knights, but I don't know much about that.
Yes of course the Commies restored the Royal Chapel, because this chapel showed the connection to Poland. They also reconstructed the Baroque Ceslaus chapel in Wroclaw, but removed or in some cases even destroyed Baroque interiors in other churches of the city. Simply because Ceslaus was a Polish saint, whereas everything which wasn't Gothic and/or had a connection to Poland was seen as the Germanization of a Polish city. These were very, very ideological times. Even monument conservators called for the destruction of monuments back in the 50s and 60s! They also did things like exchanging the Habsburg with the Polish eagle on Baroque doors of Wroclaws university (the Habsburg eagle thankfully returned after 1989).

And btw: many German dialects were influenced by Slavic languages (the dialect I speak too).
Karasek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #410
Piotr - tricity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 3miasto
Posts: 876
Likes (Received): 142

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
New developments in Gdansk are really close to the cardbox houses in terms of quality and architectural beauty
It's a bit ridiculous in my opinion in a city that was once a symbol of new ideas, an intellectual elite and architecture, and which was famous for its modern, full of momentum building.

These buildings were modern 200, 300 years ago. It may be better to reconstruct some wooden houses, pre-1000 years?

Now these buildings are modern. I am very pleased that in Gdansk does not build a new "monuments".
Piotr - tricity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #411
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr - tricity View Post
It's a bit ridiculous in my opinion in a city that was once a symbol of new ideas, an intellectual elite and architecture, and which was famous for its modern, full of momentum building.

These buildings were modern 200, 300 years ago. It may be better to reconstruct some wooden houses, pre-1000 years?

Now these buildings are modern. I am very pleased that in Gdansk does not build a new "monuments".
Buildings like this were symbol of new ideas in the beginning of 20th Century (see modern building in Katowice/Poland from 1936-1937 below).



And new development in Gdansk...


As you can see, modern architecture didn't progress in last ~100 years. I think it's the right time for something fresh...

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 16th, 2012 at 04:16 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #412
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,338
Likes (Received): 58059




There are better and there are worse attempts at regionally influenced modern architecture.

The above is an example of questionable quality, but some of the shown objects are quite apt.

Don't be that ideologic.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #413
SoroushPersepolisi
Moderator
 
SoroushPersepolisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tehran
Posts: 14,999
Likes (Received): 5090

i actually think the modern structures are very nice, unique and matching to traditional polish cities, the reason being is that they have created a modern facade over a traditional base, in a way , these modern buildings are rather newer projections of the traditional ones, and they fit in well
__________________
See TEHRAN, The Capital of IRAN
SoroushPersepolisi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #414
StaryOliwianin
Cyklista i wegetarianin
 
StaryOliwianin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oliwa
Posts: 9,636
Likes (Received): 4710

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
The commies also rebuilt or rather restored the baroque catholic royal chapel from the 1600's. From my understanding the church is Gothic with baroque and other manner of interior decoration added over the centuries.
Gdańsk/Danzig after the reformation became a protestant city, later slowly re-catholised by the influx of germanized Kashubs from neighboring villages as it was easier then to change your language then religion (just before the war the city was already 30% catholic).

Why is it important? Because baroque was a catholic style, very rarely touched by the protestants. The Royal Chapel was an exception as it was build for the (obviously catholic) king of Poland.
__________________
"Do Wolivë kożdi Kaszuba, chocle roz jeden v żëcu, wodbëc povjinjen pjclgrzimkę, be sę pomodlic na grobach ksążąt kaszubskjich."
StaryOliwianin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #415
Iluminat
Redsigert User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,460
Likes (Received): 4543

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Buildings like this were symbol of new ideas in the beginning of 20th Century (see modern building in Katowice/Poland from 1936-1937 below).
http://grafik.rp.pl/grafika2/224289,230510,9.jpg

And new development in Gdansk...
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4540/img4060l.jpg
As you can see, modern architecture didn't progress in last ~100 years. I think it's the right time for something fresh...
Are you implying this buildings are in the same style
Well it would be hard to find something "fresh" if all modern buildings look the same to you.
Iluminat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #416
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Another comparison:

Gdansk


Elblag


From what I've seen in Gdansk and Elblag last week, new houses in Elblag have much better design. Still not better than renaissance, mannerist or baroque architecture, but anyway it looks ok.

PS. And prices of apartments in Elblag are 2-3 times lower as well.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 17th, 2012 at 02:31 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #417
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,338
Likes (Received): 58059

You can't compare the development of Gdansk and Elblag at all.

Elblag is a very recent development - the city decided to go the postmodern way of "urban reconstruction".

While Gdansk already decided in the aftermath of the war to reconstruct real buildings.
There isn't so much left now to reconstruct and there's some room for modern creations, quite obviously.

Though I'd prefer both cities to go for more real reconstructions.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #418
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

"There isn't so much left now to reconstruct" - you're completely wrong

Some examples of not reconstructed houses:








Or...

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 17th, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #419
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,338
Likes (Received): 58059

I should have said "compared to Elblag or other war-ridden towns". I mean, compare the reconstruction work done in Gdansk to a city like... Kassel.

But Gdansk should start some renovation initiative for its old town, loads and loads of rather rund-down, (partly) empty buildings.
Even along the main streets.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #420
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5284

can't imagine buildings in the old town being rundown and empty, lots of people would love to live in places like that. Elblag and Gdansk are taking different approaches to infill and reconstruction at the moment, but there are some accurate historic reconstructions planned in Gdansk down the road. I just don;t know if accurate plans exist of pre-war buildings to serve as the basis. The post-modern or rather contemporary traditional approach in Eblag has a warmer feel compared to the modern contemporary approach in Gdansk. Both have similar silhouettes, proportions, heights, scale, but detailing is different. For me in either case, both are successful. BTW, the maritime museum looks like it used gothic brick which gives it a unique and authentic feel.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
gdańsk, gdansk

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu