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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadek79 View Post
German-speaking Poles
Please, stop this BS. If we are in Poland laughing from Lithuanias, who try to say that almost all citizens of Vilnius were not Poles, but Polish-speaking Lithuanians, let's not do the same with Gdansk. If they were Germans, they were Germans, not German-speaking Poles.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
German-speaking Poles? This makes no sense in pre-nationalist times.
I understand, it doesn't make sense for some people today, but German was language of business in Royal Prussia (not only there, in Middle Ages majority of the population of Krakow spoke German...and it was Capital of Poland!). Most of Poles and Kashubians had to speak this language, if they wanted to trade with German or Dutch states.

PS. Hevelius wrote about himself "Civis orbis Poloni" - "citizen of Polish world", even if most of his work was written in Latin or German.

Last edited by Tadek79; June 28th, 2012 at 02:44 PM.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #483
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In Kraków many people speak German becouse many inhabitants were Germans. This situation changed durin Władysław Łokiek's reign, who had to almost polonize city.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #484
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In Kraków many people speak German becouse many inhabitants were Germans. This situation changed durin Władysław Łokiek's reign, who had to almost polonize city.
If I speak English, I'm not Polish anymore? I believe that nationality is not defined only by language. For me, to be Polish is something more: culture, history, ethnic identity, religion, language (of course, but not the most important, see Bohdan Khmelnytsky who spoke Polish) and so on. And people like Johannes Hevelius felt Polish, even if they spoke Latin or German.

"all citizens of Vilnius were not Poles, but Polish-speaking Lithuanians"

No, you don't understand what meant Lithuanian in the II RP. Lithuanians were something like a Polish sub-ethnic group (similar to Masurians, Gorals, Kashubians), not different nationality. Poles and Lithuanians shared the same history, culture, language and religion.

Last edited by Tadek79; June 28th, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #485
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Before WW2


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Old June 28th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #486
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Before WW2






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Old June 28th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #487
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Old June 28th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #488
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Before WW2


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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #489
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^

Well done!
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Old June 28th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #490
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Before WW2


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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #491
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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #492
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Before WW2 (Boguslawskiego Street)


Buildings do not exist any more...

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Old June 29th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #493
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Before WW2


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What's going on over on the left hand side of this picture? Is the church being reconstructed?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #494
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Do they still make the liqueur with the real gold flakes in Gdansk (formerly known as Danziger Goldwasser)?

It's very impressive what Poland has done to restore what was lost, and I applaud their efforts. Some here deride it as Pastiche, but I find it inspiring to rebuild what was destroyed.

I was born in Coburg Germany (northern Bavaria)... and Coburg (possibly due to its' connection with the British House of Windsor) and nearby Bamberg (Germany's largest preserved historic town, due to the Washington D.C. connections of its' former Archbishop) were both spared the massive destruction of so many German cities.

I do have one question... Nuremberg (only about 110km south of Coburg) was so heavily damaged... and yet its' city walls are the most impressive I've seen (along with the Moscow Kremlin walls). Are there any other cities in Europe that still have city walls that can compare with those of Nuremberg? Most cities destroyed their walls in the mid 19th centuries to build their "Ring-strasse"... but Nuremberg kept theirs... and they are magnificent.

I know that York England has their city walls... but they pale by comparison to those of Nuremberg... and also Rome has surviving walls... but if any city should try to rebuild its old houses within the walls... Nuremberg would very much benefit from such an endeavor. It would be like Rothenburg or Carcassone or Avila... but on a grander scale...
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Old June 29th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #495
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"Do they still make the liqueur with the real gold flakes in Gdansk (formerly known as Danziger Goldwasser)?"

Yes, Danziger Goldwasser (Gdansk's Gold Vodka or rather Water) is still produced in Straszyn (Poland). The most prominent characteristic of this alcoholic beverage is small flakes of 23 karat gold suspended in it. The drink was invented by a Dutchman from De Lier, Ambrosius Vermöllen, who became a citizen of Danzig on 6 July 1598.


"It's very impressive what Poland has done to restore what was lost, and I applaud their efforts. Some here deride it as Pastiche, but I find it inspiring to rebuild what was destroyed."

I agree, but there's still a long way to go. I would say that maybe 1/5 of the historical area has been reconstructed so far.

"Are there any other cities in Europe that still have city walls that can compare with those of Nuremberg?"

Maybe you should try Dubrovnik, Obidos, Toledo, Bruges, Lucca, Rhodes and San Gimignano.

Last edited by Tadek79; June 29th, 2012 at 12:51 PM.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadek79 View Post
"It's very impressive what Poland has done to restore what was lost, and I applaud their efforts. Some here deride it as Pastiche, but I find it inspiring to rebuild what was destroyed."

I agree, but there's still a long way to go. I would say that maybe 1/5 of the historical area has been reconstructed so far.
But...

Is Poland still complying with Article 15 of that dumb ass Venice Charter? If so, it would seem that any further reconstruction in Gdansk would be ruled out.

Or am I missing something here?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #497
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A German gem!
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #498
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Is Poland still complying with Article 15 of that dumb ass Venice Charter?
It depends. For example in Elbląg/Elbing rather yes (altough there are some reconstructions too), but in Warsaw rather no. For example, in Warsaw there are plans to rebiuld Saxon Palace.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #499
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But...

Is Poland still complying with Article 15 of that dumb ass Venice Charter? If so, it would seem that any further reconstruction in Gdansk would be ruled out.

Or am I missing something here?
I've read somewhere that in 2004 second stage of Gdansk reconstruction should have been started. I think that Venice Charter has nothing to do with cities like Gdansk, Dresden, Warsaw, etc. which were completely destroyed.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #500
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A German gem!
??

I would agree if you would say Polish, Flemish/Dutch and German gem destroyed by Nazis and Soviets and carefully restored by Poles.
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