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Old July 27th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #561
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awesome!
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Old July 27th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #562
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Awesome picture Just such a shame that much of the buildings at the ring around the Rechtstadt are lost...
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Old August 1st, 2012, 01:51 PM   #563
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Old August 1st, 2012, 03:25 PM   #564
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Old August 1st, 2012, 05:37 PM   #565
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Old August 6th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #566
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Old August 7th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #567
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Well....some money for renovation, rebuilding and better infrastructure would make a big difference for Gdansk. Question is, how to get the money to do this...
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Old August 7th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #568
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Quote:
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Well....some money for renovation, rebuilding and better infrastructure would make a big difference for Gdansk. Question is, how to get the money to do this...
Well, the economic situation in Europe at the moment is far from ideal, but as long as there is a long-term commitment by the city of Gdansk and the Polish government (and future governments) to continue carrying out this kind of project then things will turn out fine. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day, and the same goes for large-scale (re)contruction work in any major city.

From what I have seen on this thread it would appear that things are going in the right direction. I hope to visit this historic port city one day.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #569
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The reality with any Polish city is that the central planning or spatial planning that was done under the communist regime was politically motivated and like any government, constrained fiscally. So, the important elements were rebuilt and the vernacular elements not so much. Throw in some commie blocks, wild 1990's post-modern crap and there you have today's situation which is only marginally guided by spatial planning at the regional or local level. That seems to me by impression as an outsider of Polish descent. I certainly can see how reconstruction of certain buildings will improve the quality of the urban environment... but at this point, I'd be happy with any infill (no matter how "modern.").
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Old August 9th, 2012, 03:41 AM   #570
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You write about spatial planning. Expand on that. What should be done? Is this the same as urban planning?
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Old August 10th, 2012, 02:09 AM   #571
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spatial planning is at the core of urban and regional planning, it's how we deploy, characterize and configure built and spatial form on the land and the relationship between built and spatial form.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #572
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Thanks for Poland that you made fantastic job what was impossible in Soviet Union.
This city is like example for Konigsberg (Former north part of Prussia) (I think it is impossible , beacause this area is still part of Russia) and Lithuania.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
Thanks for Poland that you made fantastic job what was impossible in Soviet Union.
This city is like example for Konigsberg (Former north part of Prussia) (I think it is impossible , beacause this area is still part of Russia) and Lithuania.
The situation with Danzig/Gdansk was slightly different. It was like a city-legend for Poles, example of lost national glory. Other cities like Stettin/Szczecin weren't rebuilt.

History:
Danzig/Gdansk in the 16th century was the largest and the richest town in Poland, as well as the biggest port on the Baltic Sea. It was lost by Poles during partitions of Poland in 1793.

Poles hoped the city of Danzig/Gdansk would become part of Poland after WW1, when country regained independence after 123 years (the city was Polish in 997-1308 & 1454/1466-1793, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmowski%27s_Line). Unfortunately, Danzig/Gdansk became the free city under League of Nations protection and put into a binding customs union with Poland. Poland also had special utilization rights towards the city, however it wasn't actually Polish with German-speaking majority.

After 1945:
Parts of the historic old city of Danzig/Gdansk, which had suffered large-scale destruction during the war, were rebuilt during the 1940s-1960s. The reconstruction was not tied to the city’s pre-war appearance, instead its politically motivated purpose was to rebuild an idealized pre-1793 state (when the city was under Polish crown). Any traces of German tradition were ignored or regarded as "Prussian barbarism" worthy of demolition while Flemish-Dutch, Italian and French influences were emphasized.

1765:


Now:


PS. Regarding the city of Konigsberg/Krolewiec, I assume that only small historic part of the city would have been rebuilt (Ducal Prussia was fief of the Crown of Poland in 1525-1657). BTW, according to the census in 1875, 73.48% of the population of East Prussia identified themselves as Germans, 18.39% as Poles, 8.11% as Lithuanians.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 10th, 2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #574
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Old August 11th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #575
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Quote:
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BTW, according to the census in 1875, 73.48% of the population of East Prussia identified themselves as Germans, 18.39% as Poles, 8.11% as Lithuanians.
Yes, North part of East Prussia, including areas of Insterburg/Įsrutis, Tilžė/Tilsit, Memelland/Klaipėdos kraštas, Labiau/Labguva, Gumbinine/Gumbinė, Curonian spit till XVIII c. was full of lithuanians, later german part bacame higer.

It would need to creat thread about East Prussia, beacause this area very intresting and important not just for germans but also for poles and lithuanians.

P.S

If not Minor Lithuania, East Prussia region, I don't think that lithuanian language today would be alive. And what is more, Lithuania survived, but Minor Lithuania was raped as all East Prussia.

Lithuanians stil see this region as land of balts and germans.
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Old August 11th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #576
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Quote:
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BTW, according to the census in 1875, 73.48% of the population of East Prussia identified themselves as Germans, 18.39% as Poles, 8.11% as Lithuanians.
That's not true. The official census distinguished between Germans, Poles, Masurians and Lithuanian. You added the Masurians to the Poles.
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Old August 11th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #577
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Quote:
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That's not true. The official census distinguished between Germans, Poles, Masurians and Lithuanian. You added the Masurians to the Poles.
Any source?

PS. Masurians - Polish settlers from Masovia who moved to Prussia especially during and after the Protestant Reformation and who were primarily Protestant. German authorities undertook several measures to Germanise and separate them from the Polish nation by creating a separate identity.

Masurians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masurians

Masurian dialect - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masurian_dialect

Maybe Kashubians or my girlfriend parents (Kociewiacy ethnic group) are Germans as well?

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Old August 11th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #578
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Indeed, during the era of German/Prussian Empire and then the 3rd Reich, German authorities were targeting the ethnic Polish population in Masuria and Silesia in an attempt of prove their distinctiveness from the Poles. Sad but true...

Also, there is a powerful and quite sad film called 'Róża' (Rose) about the lot of a germanised Masurian girl, Róża Kwiatkowska, and a former AK freedom fighter from Warsaw after the end of WW2.

The online version of that film can be found e.g. here.
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Old August 11th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
That's not true. The official census distinguished between Germans, Poles, Masurians and Lithuanian. You added the Masurians to the Poles.
He also added the East Prussians to the Germans








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Old August 11th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Any source?

PS. Masurians - Polish settlers from Masovia who moved to Prussia especially during and after the Protestant Reformation and who were primarily Protestant. German authorities undertook several measures to Germanise and separate identity.
These evil Germans...
The source is the census of 1910, which lists 1,6 mio Germans, 155.000 Poles, 130.000 Masurians and 109.000 Lithuanians.
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