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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:32 AM   #861
rychlik
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Originally Posted by Oslo2022 View Post
No Rychlik, because I am afraid we otherwise can see a replay from the "reconstruction" of Elblag or Glogow. And by the way, mannerist and renaissance buildings will receive greater recognition if they are rebuilt by architects and experts coming from the same country and region as the architects and mastercrafts of the original buildings.
Well, if there was a decision to reconstruct buildings in an authentic way, then it would get done. Glogow was an experiment. Never intended to be a faithful reconstruction.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:40 AM   #862
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I have great respect for the reconstruction of Gdansk, Warsaw and other polish cities. However under such people as former Warsaw head conservator Nekanda-Trepka and the conservator in Gdansk (Refusing to reconstruct the Wyspa Spichrzow).

The conservators job in Elblag and Glogow are just horrible example how following the "Venice charter" can destroy the countries great reconstruction reputation in XXI century.
It's their fault for signing such a stupid charter. Feels like a conspiracy almost, to prohibit other nations from rebuilding beautiful architecture. It's like France, Italy and Spain can only have really beautiful architecture, right? Rip up that charter I say!!! And who enforces it? Poland seems to be taking direction from too many countries. I don't think it will serve the country well in the future.
Warsaw has a new conservator. I hope he's better than the last one.

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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #863
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It's their fault for signing such a stupid charter. Feels like a conspiracy almost, to prohibit other nations from rebuilding beautiful architecture. It's like France, Italy and Spain can only have really beautiful architecture, right? Rip up that charter I say!!! Poland seems to taking direction from too many countries. I don't think it will serve the country well in the future.
I totally agree, countries devastated by WWII such as Poland and Germany should never have signed this unnecessary charter. (Though Germany in contrary to Poland is ignoring the charter and is currently rebuilding lost old town districts and palaces (Dresden, Potsdam, Frankfurt)
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Old February 17th, 2013, 06:27 AM   #864
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I totally agree, countries devastated by WWII such as Poland and Germany should never have signed this unnecessary charter. (Though Germany in contrary to Poland is ignoring the charter and is currently rebuilding lost old town districts and palaces (Dresden, Potsdam, Frankfurt)
So it's a joke and nobody enforces it.

I want to sleep easier and believe it has to do with cost: authentic, historical reconstructions are more expensive because they require more detail, precision and superb craftsmanship.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #865
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I am afraid that we will se larger faithful city-reconstructions in Poland in the nearby future.
faithful to what?
As you reconstructed in historical style prior to XVIII century, you should rebuild Granary Island in that style as well. Nothing is faithful, it's all theater, a play.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #866
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Dresden (pop. 529,781, huge budget)


Elblag (pop. 124,257, poor Poland)


Dresden


Elblag


Oslo2022 - The conservators job in Elblag are just horrible examples on how following the "Venice charter" can destroy a countries great reconstruction reputation in the XXI century. Though Germany in contrary to Poland is ignoring the charter and is currently rebuilding lost old town districts and palaces (Dresden). Yeah, right

In this process experts from Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Belgium should be hired in two make clear that all the great buildings and streetviews are recreated as close to perfection as possible.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; February 17th, 2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 12:37 PM   #867
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So it's a joke and nobody enforces it.

I want to sleep easier and believe it has to do with cost: authentic, historical reconstructions are more expensive because they require more detail, precision and superb craftsmanship.
Well Poland will soon reseve 300 billion zlotys from the EU, at least a little part from these fundings could be spend on reconstructing buildings in Gdansk, Warsaw and other polish cities.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post

Oslo2022 - The conservators job in Elblag are just horrible examples on how following the "Venice charter" can destroy a countries great reconstruction reputation in the XXI century. Though Germany in contrary to Poland is ignoring the charter and is currently rebuilding lost old town districts and palaces (Dresden). Yeah, right

In this process experts from Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Belgium should be hired in two make clear that all the great buildings and streetviews are recreated as close to perfection as possible.
I am just so depressed seeing the lack of will to reconstruct lost historic districts in entire Europe. Though some light can be seen in the Balkans (Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina with Sarajevo).
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Old February 17th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #869
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The Netherlands and Belgium both aren't good in reconstructing old demolished neighborhoods....

The only really good example (of reconstruction, because all the other famous old towns in Belgium never recieved big amounts of damage) in Belgium is Ieper.

Ieper went from this:


http://users.telenet.be/omgevingsboe.../ieper1919.jpg


To this:

http://fotogeniekbelgie.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ieper-01-contr1.jpg?w=700&h=470

image hosted on flickr

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1333/1...8dd184d7_z.jpg
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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #870
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Thank you for these photos. I'm really impressed with the reconstructions in Ieper/Ypres (beautiful city).

If we're talking about the cities rebuilt after WW1, Poles did a great job with Kalisz.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #871
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Dresden (pop. 529,781, huge budget)
...

Elblag (pop. 124,257, poor Poland)
...
I like Elblag in a weird way. Some postmodernist buildings are really a failure but I could imagine that one day, people will appreciate the entirety of the largely post-modern city for its quirky and unconventional weirdness.

Still, your comparison of Dresden and Elbalg is a highly selective and biased one. You show the most historic/ most successful postmodern reconstructions in Elblag and compare them with the least historic and most boring buildings at Neumarkt. Thats not a fair and honest way of comparing both.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 02:54 PM   #872
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I've just compared new tenements in Dresden with new tenements in Elblag. Elblag never had any Baroque palaces or churches, so I cannot compare these buildings.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #873
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Well Poland will soon reseve 300 billion zlotys from the EU, at least a little part from these fundings could be spend on reconstructing buildings in Gdansk, Warsaw and other polish cities.
Better put it on preservation.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #874
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I've just compared new tenements in Dresden with new tenements in Elblag. Elblag never had any Baroque palaces or churches, so I cannot compare these buildings.
Ok. All of those buildings are fairly new indeed. But for the bigger picture the context of these buildings is important. In Elblag there might not be a baroque heritage but I am sure if there would have been the will, there would have been plenty of possibilities for charming old style reconstructions, more than have been realized (those that got reconstructed are lovely btw).

IMHO the new retrofits in Elblag look better and classier than some of the older ones.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 05:24 PM   #875
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


Thank you for these photos. I'm really impressed with the reconstructions in Ieper/Ypres (beautiful city).

If we're talking about the cities rebuilt after WW1, Poles did a great job with Kalisz.
The reconstruction of Kalisz is one of the best reconstructions I have ever seen. I only could wish that we will see a similar result in Gdansk (Main town, Old town and Granary Island) with the second stage of the reconstruction of this city.

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Old February 17th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #876
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The Netherlands and Belgium both aren't good in reconstructing old demolished neighborhoods....

The only really good example (of reconstruction, because all the other famous old towns in Belgium never recieved big amounts of damage) in Belgium is Ieper.

Ieper went from this:




To this:



image hosted on flickr

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1333/1...8dd184d7_z.jpg
Holy crap. That's an amazing recovery. Why didn't I know about it???
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Old February 17th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #877
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I've just compared new tenements in Dresden with new tenements in Elblag. Elblag never had any Baroque palaces or churches, so I cannot compare these buildings.
But you made a good point about the charter.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post

To this:

http://fotogeniekbelgie.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ieper-01-contr1.jpg?w=700&h=470

image hosted on flickr

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1333/1...8dd184d7_z.jpg
This is exactly what I want to see happen during the second stage of the reconstruction of Gdansk, because it deserves it!

Ypres right after WWI


Ypres today (Everything you see are reconstructions)




Street view (How I want this in Gdansk, Its like all the streets in Gdansk would have been reconstructed like Dluga, Mariacka, or Piwna street)





Imagine the Gdansk cityscape looking like this:


And all the streets like this:









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Old February 17th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #879
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Short clip of the Gdansk ruins in 1945

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Old February 17th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #880
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I' m wondering, how come, that Poland, under communism rule, was able to rebuilt German Cities, while rich Germany could not?
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