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Old May 12th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #1041
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Gdansk Main Town (Google Maps)
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Old May 12th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
PS. Actually, I cannot find any church built by Protestants in Gdansk before partitions of Poland. Do you know if Protestant community built any church in Gdansk before 1793?
There was no need: they took over all the pre-1525 churches and it was enough. In protestant communities (especially homogenous, such as Gdańsk: 100% Lutheran) there was higher number of believers per church (and they were all parroquial). It was the Catholics who used to create - aparts from parriches - also dozens of convents in every city in 17-18 century, which was ridiculed so harshly by Krasicki in "Monachomachia"

Please note that it is general rule: if a Protestant city maintained its number of citizens throughout 17th and 18th century, it usually didn't invest in new churches (the exemptions are in England, but they divided the Church of England into so many denominations that they simply created large demand for religious infrastructure). In Catholic cities - on the contrary: sometimes the only investments made were churches, convents or rent houses belonging to church (surrounded by remnants of cities, stripped of their erstwhile glory, with their dirty streets filled with ducks, pigs and cows).

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Maybe there was some Polish law to prohibit Protestants to built churches (that's why Protestants were emigrating to Duchy of Prussia).
Certainly not in Gdansk. On the contrary, there were Royal privileges from 1550-ish prohibiting Catholic propaganda (in Konigsberg/Krolewiec - also Calvinist propaganda - they hated Calvinist in the Prussia) and building Catholic churches in Gdansk. In fact, the Royal Chapel you've posted (the Tylman's 1683 annex of the Holiest Virgin Mary gothic church) was some sort of exemption. IIRC it was in the conditions of 1677 peace that Gdansk will allow to build the one sole Catholic church under special protection of the Polish King.

Keep in mind, that most of today's Gdansk territory, including Oliwa, were in 17th century inhabited mostly by Catholics but were not part of Gdansk proper. Of course it was allowed to build Catholic churches outside Gdansk (and Protestant churches as well, should be needed).
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Old May 13th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #1043
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in the before and after pics above on a positive note, I do see much potential to reconstruct historic buildings. In first pic above in this series, the low commie block behind the new condo on the right might conceivably make way for reconbstructed kamienice. it would be great if a fund were set up to channel money from Poles, Polonia and anyone else into rebuilding Gdansk much like was done for Royal Castle in Warsaw.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old May 14th, 2013, 03:31 AM   #1044
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In first pic above in this series, the low commie block behind the new condo on the right might conceivably make way for reconbstructed kamienice.
If you kill it's inhabitants first.
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Old May 14th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #1045
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Hey all,

My birthday is nearing and I normally spend my Birthday's in a lovely place where I can indulge in history and architecture (hate the cake and friends and eating out with parents etc) and so this time, am thinking of being somewhere really unique.

Driving with a car and a small pet given there is nobody to look after, the best options and not too far will be somewhere in Poland where I 've never been and I really LOVE to visit Gdansk. I like Polish culture a lot being such unique culture with good food and kind 'easy-going, no nonsense" people. Plus, Poland is soaked with history and arts.

I was thinking of Gdansk. I 've a friend living in Warsaw and don't know how far is it to drive to Warsaw too if I want to visit it him on the way back home.

Any ideas as where to stay etc? how long will it take to drive from Berlin to Gdansk?

Many thanks and send me a Private Message please. I can read it at work on my iPad.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 06:32 AM   #1046
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If you kill it's inhabitants first.
or if they all agree to move maybe?
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Old May 19th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #1047
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or if they all agree to move maybe?
Most of flats in commieblocks in PL are already privately-owned so eminent domain rule would have to be used. Which is difficult, considering that all of the cities have incredible investment needs and that there are still plenty of empty lots to be filled with buildings in Gdansk. The great hole between Main Town and southern suburbs have to be filled, as well as Granary Island and empty spaces in Old Town. Plus the Young Town, IIRC on the spot of former Lenin Shipyard.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 01:49 AM   #1048
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Have the stairs leading to and cellars of the Main city town hall been reconstructed?

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Old May 29th, 2013, 06:08 AM   #1049
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Still one of my favourite reconstructions, but did it always had the same street patern as pre-World War 2, or did the communists reorganized the streets after World War 2?
Main Town and Old Town have more or less the same street pattern. Some streets were reorganised and the new motorway-like wide Podwale Przedmiejskie was cut through rubble after the war. Now they are pondering about narrowing this motorway and they will probably ponder about for 10 years more or so
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Old May 29th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
There was no need: they took over all the pre-1525 churches and it was enough. In protestant communities (especially homogenous, such as Gdańsk: 100% Lutheran) there was higher number of believers per church (and they were all parroquial). It was the Catholics who used to create - aparts from parriches - also dozens of convents in every city in 17-18 century, which was ridiculed so harshly by Krasicki in "Monachomachia"

Please note that it is general rule: if a Protestant city maintained its number of citizens throughout 17th and 18th century, it usually didn't invest in new churches (the exemptions are in England, but they divided the Church of England into so many denominations that they simply created large demand for religious infrastructure). In Catholic cities - on the contrary: sometimes the only investments made were churches, convents or rent houses belonging to church (surrounded by remnants of cities, stripped of their erstwhile glory, with their dirty streets filled with ducks, pigs and cows).



Certainly not in Gdansk. On the contrary, there were Royal privileges from 1550-ish prohibiting Catholic propaganda (in Konigsberg/Krolewiec - also Calvinist propaganda - they hated Calvinist in the Prussia) and building Catholic churches in Gdansk. In fact, the Royal Chapel you've posted (the Tylman's 1683 annex of the Holiest Virgin Mary gothic church) was some sort of exemption. IIRC it was in the conditions of 1677 peace that Gdansk will allow to build the one sole Catholic church under special protection of the Polish King.

Keep in mind, that most of today's Gdansk territory, including Oliwa, were in 17th century inhabited mostly by Catholics but were not part of Gdansk proper. Of course it was allowed to build Catholic churches outside Gdansk (and Protestant churches as well, should be needed).


Very interesting post. Thanks.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 11:14 AM   #1051
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http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/0/12103/m12103700.png

Najpiękniejsze place Europy. Tak mógłby wyglądać Targ Węglowy?
Paweł Wojciechowski 22.05.2013 15:52

http://trojmiasto.gazeta.pl/trojmias...adac_Targ.html

Z czego słyną europejskie place i targi? Zebraliśmy krótką listę najpiękniejszych i najlepiej zaprojektowanych przestrzeni publicznych w Europie, które mogłyby być inspiracją do nowego zaaranżowania Targu Węglowego. Wszystkie obiekty służą wyłącznie pieszym. Twórcze zagospodarowanie gdańskiego placu mogłoby sprawić, że mieszkańcy i turyści poczuliby się jak w samym sercu Toskanii. Kluczem doboru były znaki rozpoznawcze, każdego z placów.

Piazzo del Campo w Sienie, Stroget i Radhuspladsen w Kopenhadze, Plac św. Marka w Wenecji, Nowy Rynek (Neumarkt) w Dreźnie, Rynek Staromiejski w Pradze.


http://postcard.com.pl/wp-content/up.../01/GM196E.jpg
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:02 AM   #1052
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Seeing all these postcards from pre-war Gdańsk is somewhat mind boggling. The architecture of the time wasn't as respected as it is now. Then in the future there's probably gonna be a forum about all the 'Beautiful' 20th century architecture, That was torn down for what will be their 'modern' architecture. Damn that historical nostalgia.
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Old June 9th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #1053
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Lidzbark Warminsky

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Old June 14th, 2013, 12:15 AM   #1054
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Any building reconstructed from fall the communism? Or is all thanks to communism?
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Old June 14th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #1055
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You mean in Lidzbark? Or generally?
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Old June 16th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #1056
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Quote:
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Any building reconstructed from fall the communism? Or is all thanks to communism?
In Lidzbark there was no reconstructions "from the scratch" at all (and neither were in most of small cities in Poland). The Warmian Bishops' Palace was repaired (and small repair works are being made since) as well as mildly damaged rent-houses. But fully destroyed and burnt buildings were perceived as unsuitable for reconstruction. The rubble was removed and the new, usually low-class modernist blocks of flats were built in 1960s.

There are also some "fillings" and new "old" rent houses build after 1989. But they are not reconstructions - they are rather examples of historism.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:35 PM   #1057
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Bible books published in Gdansk in 1606 and 1632


And pre-war Polish printing house



Like many Poles from Gdansk, the owner of Drukarnia Gdanska A.G., Jan Kwiatkowski was expelled from Gdansk by Nazis in the first months of WW2.

* Bonus
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Old June 27th, 2013, 04:51 AM   #1058
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awesome
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:01 AM   #1059
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Wow I never realized how consistent polish has been over the centuries especially when you compare it to english.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #1060
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Gdansk 1939


Gdansk 2009
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