Why many people say Arabian Gulf cities look "Fake " and "Soulless" ?

[aquaticko]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam? Or Seoul?

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.

Dubai is Dubai... it is simply what it is- a city with small native population and huge number of expats who mostly coming in and out of it. The "newer" parts of Dubai actually feels really small when compared to older parts & districts of Dubai.

And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.

They look crap to many but they are highly functional, full of traditional facets, it is what Dubai is about. So what to be shamed about ?

My point is not about how crap/ugly buildings/architecture looks like- my point is Dubai is what it is- a city full of tradition, soul, a mix of different cultures which are well-represented.

Look at Dubai's pics 50-60 years ago, full of such streetshops.

Dubai is a mix of Gulf, Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, India etc. and many other cultures mixed together

And since I've been to Dubai for 7 times so far , I can simply say most of what u said about Dubai is wrong- it is hot with non-stop sunshine during daytime- but at night Dubai is full of street activities, extremely vibrant city with bustling dining and shopping activity.

Indeed Ronnie bro. When I first visited the Gulf back in 2006 I never expected such a vibrant, colourful, hospitable, dynamic and progressive place

Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

[Dimethyltryptamine]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Emm but when I was in Dubai how could I found the opposite ? The whole of Dubai city seem to be crowded with people, its metro is highly utilized, shopping malls are packed especially at night, etc. I didn't get the impression of a sterile, soulless city at all. In fact, I found Dubai to be the most vibrant, the most cheerful and the most colourful major city I've seen .

I've been to Dubai and can say with confidence the 'whole Dubai city' is not crowded... The shopping malls (Dubai Mall, mainly) may be crowded, but that doesn't make them any less gaudy and sterile. Give me busy streets with shop-fronts lining the footpath any day over a shopping mall with an ice skating rink, and an enormous aquarium.

To be honest, if Dubai is all that (the most vibrant, cheerful and colourful major city you've seen), I have to question your travels... Have you been to cities such as Paris, London, New York, Chicago, Toronto, Melbourne, etc - if not, I suggest you do, and see how real cities work.

[turigamot]

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

You ask the question, then you refute every answer you're given. Why bother, lol

This.

New Dubai reminds people of Las Vegas. Which is, without a doubt, fake and soulless. Dubai built their skyscrapers as a way to show off; not because they actually needed them. This reeks of gimmickry. It doesn't matter what the old city is like. It is the "modern" part of Dubai that they present to the world as an example, and thus, this is what the world sees—and it leaves much to be desired.

As a counter-example of a booming economy, without the ostentatious, showoff supertalls, look at the Kurdistan region of Iraq. They are building to modernize, and doing it without supertalls and without vast amounts of government money. They are building because the market demands it; not because they feel the need to prove anything to the rest of the world.

[musiccity]

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

You ask the question, then you refute every answer you're given. Why bother, lol

I know, I don't get it. Why ask for people's opinions then bash every opinion that isn't the same as yours.

[Messi]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

But still most of Mecca is traditional or semi-traditional , free from those modern skyscrapers.

Low education ? Yet Saudis seem to be better educated than most other parts of developing Asia , many Saudis had their tertiary education in the West . But you never call poor countries in Asia and Africa with high illiteracy rate " Soulless" ?

Political system is very subjective- many Asian & Arabian Gulf countries develop fast under iron fist .

Nice for Mecca but I don't think it is full of historical buildings. Just around mecca you see hundreds of ugly high-rise apartments. Where is the history if not next to Mecca? Btw I am not talking specifically for Mecca. It was given as an example why cities in the region don't have a soul. It's because there is no respect for heritage, there is no civil society which is powerful enough to stop such demolition. Again I am not talking specifically about Mecca. If this is happening in Mecca imagine the rest.

Off topic: I really don't think that Saudi population is an educated and enlightened one. The tertiary education is more like a madrasah rather than accumulation of science.

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by musiccity

I know, I don't get it. Why ask for people's opinions then bash every opinion that isn't the same as yours.

I'm not bashing, but the way many ppl speak of Dubai, Doha etc here is as if its only unique to them, when the truth is, the whole world is similar.

Almost all major cities in the world also have older parts, semi-old parts ( without any cultural influence ) and newer parts. Is this statement wrong ? We cannot take only the newer parts of Dubai and say the whole city "soulless" because of that.

It's true what u said- that many buildings in Doha, Dubai etc were only built 3-4 decades ago, but IMO they are great representative of old Arabia, old Pakistan, old Persia and old India ( Kerala ) . The native of Dubai and Doha were nomads many years ago, and their population was very, very low in the past, thus the historical structure tend to be less. But still the different cultures that make up Dubai is very alive and vibrant.

Many landed houses and rooms in hotels in Dubai are built according to native Emirati architecture. There are many other examples.

[Disturbing Reality]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Emm but since I live in Kuala Lumpur I must say that soo many buildings here aren't representative of anything- they are just built with random modern design etc.

It's same with all major cities in the world- there are historical areas, there are semi-historical areas, and the modern districts full of building design unrelated to any local influence ( is this what u call "Soulless" ?)

So why single out Dubai , Doha etc ?

please don't get me wrong, western architecture in asia (or vice versa) doesn't automatically mean "soulless".. french architecture in saigon, spanish in manila and dutch in jakarta are all results of history and cultural exchange..

i can't speak much for kuala lumpur.. if that's your observation, then it must be in the same league as dubai.. no offense, architecture is a non-issue, we are talking about constructions just for the heck of it..

Originally Posted by Skyprince

I'm not bashing, but the way many ppl speak of Dubai, Doha etc here is as if its only unique to them, when the truth is, the whole world is similar.

no, the whole world is not similar. there aren't a lot of places that builds just to show off. firstly, most nations aren't wealthy enough to afford showing off, secondly, most nations don't think it's necessary to show off.. in fact the world has never seen such extravagance as dubai's constructions..

[Dimethyltryptamine]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

I'm not bashing, but the way many ppl speak of Dubai, Doha etc here is as if its only unique to them, when the truth is, the whole world is similar.

First page...

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

It's not something that is reserved only to Dubai. I've heard the Gold Coast labeled soulless, and Las Vegas the same.

Third page

Originally Posted by turigamot

New Dubai reminds people of Las Vegas. Which is, without a doubt, fake and soulless. Dubai built their skyscrapers as a way to show off; not because they actually needed them. This reeks of gimmickry. It doesn't matter what the old city is like. It is the "modern" part of Dubai that they present to the world as an example, and thus, this is what the world sees—and it leaves much to be desired.

Fact is though, Dubai has taken the soulless, instant city feeling to a whole new level.... A level far greater than Las Vegas, Macau, the Gold Coast.

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

I've been to Dubai and can say with confidence the 'whole Dubai city' is not crowded... The shopping malls (Dubai Mall, mainly) may be crowded, but that doesn't make them any less gaudy and sterile. Give me busy streets with shop-fronts lining the footpath any day over a shopping mall with an ice skating rink, and an enormous aquarium.

To be honest, if Dubai is all that (the most vibrant, cheerful and colourful major city you've seen), I have to question your travels... Have you been to cities such as Paris, London, New York, Chicago, Toronto, Melbourne, etc - if not, I suggest you do, and see how real cities work.

Emm okay, but not the whole of London, New York, Tokyo, Singapore , New Delhi are crowded either. In every major city of course there are always crowded vs. sterile/dull/relatively empty streets/districts.

I've been to UK, Australia, France, Netherlands etc. and many big Asian cities but still I must say relative to its size, Dubai is the most bustling and vibrant major city I've seen, IMO the warm weather and the local culture of staying outdoor till midnight makes it feel very lively all the day.

And "busy streets with shop-fronts lining the footpath "- Dubai has soooo many such places. Have you been to Deira ? Even the photos I posted in 1st page of this thread show such bustling traditional district full of life

[Disturbing Reality]

so what are you trying to say? that you were right and the whole world is wrong?

you know, there's just a bunch of things that don't need much (over) analyzation, you go to some place, whatever first impression you have is basically beyond explanation..

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by aquaticko

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.



And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.



Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

Wow, this is very interesting read

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by Disturbing Reality

so what are you trying to say? that you were right and the whole world is wrong?

I don't want to explain anymore.. it's a simple logic that any major city on planet Earth are a combination of old, semi-old and new modern parts, and have both crowded/bustling and relatively empty spaces.

Anyway, I don't feel this thread is a ground to discuss this simple issue.

[Dimethyltryptamine]

meh, I'm done in this thread. what a waste of time. we obviously have different views of what is bustling and what is not... those pictures you posted may be 'bustling' by Dubai standards (i.e. 3 people walking down a street lined carparks) but in no other world city would that hold up.

[Disturbing Reality]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

I don't want to explain anymore.. it's a simple logic that any major city on planet Earth are a combination of old, semi-old and new modern parts, and have both crowded/bustling and relatively empty spaces.

Anyway, I don't feel this thread is a ground to discuss this simple issue.

what logic? you mean dubai has old and new sections and classic and modern architecture? of course we know it.. c'mon..

all cities in the world has old, not-so-old, and new modern districts, yes! but none has ever brought showing-off to a higher level. i mean, look at all those half-empty supertalls..

[Skyprince]

The charm of Dubai

Photos by SSC forumer Tom Green
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=203569




















Dubai Creek




Most of Emiratis live in such landed house, in Emirati style architecture

[Dimethyltryptamine]

great street level activity for a city of more than 2 million

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by Galro

Libya also have (or perhaps used to have consider the recent war?) buildings like these too:

Do the Gulf countries have anything similar (genuine question as I don't know)?

Libya's location and history makes some of its architecture a mix of what we can see in Arabian Peninsula and in Southern Europe IMO..

In Gulf countries, say UAE, it's largely a mix of purely Arabian Gulf architecture with Pakistani, Indian and Persian influence

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by DiggerD21

Dining and Shopping = vibrant city? How sad, this commercialism.
What about culture? Concerts, Theatre, Arts exhibitions etc. I don't speak of high profile (in other words: commercialized) stuff, but the more hidden, underground scene. Dubai is not known at all for that. And basically those few I met who went to Dubai or planned to go there, wanted to go for making lots of money in short time and then come back to their home countries.

Culture is what I'm talking about especially urban culture, the visual and performing arts, entertainment, poetry. This is what brings life to a city.

This is what gave London, New York or Paris it's character. Same with HK, Manila, Mexico City or even KL.

Dubai can spend millions of Dirham bringing in big talents say Madonna or Ricky Martin but does not have it's own local talents to shine.

How about arts, music, literature? Any prominent people from Dubai into this scene?

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by aquaticko

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.



And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.



Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

Plus The Olympics as the case with Seoul.



Can Dubai show the same flair?

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

The charm of Dubai

Most of Emiratis live in such landed house, in Emirati style architecture

This is where contrast shows. While there are native Emiratis who can live in luxury, the majority of the city, The South Asians have to live in drab conditions and have to deal with prejudice, hardships and to some extent violating their human rights especially those who construct the supertalls that you see in this city.

And riots do happen!