Why many people say Arabian Gulf cities look "Fake " and "Soulless" ?

[eklips]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

You can't judge vibrance by streetview. How do you know when they were driving around? It could have been 7 am on a Sunday morning.

PS. The last thing Brisbane needs to aspire to is to be like Cairo.

Indeed, you can't judge it through a few pictures, but the same is true with the old Dubai pics posted here, which is exactly why I made this comment.

As for what Brisbane "should" aspire too, this was not my point, at all.

Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble

Actually he meant the exact opposite and the exact opposite is true. I've never been to Dubai but I have a good friend who worked there for several years and one of the things he did NOT like about Dubai is the massive "underground" sex industry. Essentially since single women are BANNED from walking around and going to clubs and bars on their own single men have no shot at meeting a woman, so they rely on prostitution which of course is underground, but everyone knows about it and tolerates. In fact it is an accepted practice among the local male population, INCLUDING married men, but of course it is hush-hush and everyone pretends it doesn't exist(except the poor girls most of whom are there as a result of sex trafficking).

I personally like the modern architecture of Dubai, but as a society I despise it. And yes the fact that in public you hardly see women(and when you do they are almost always foreign tourists) is nauseating. I will never travel to Dubai or spend a penny there as long as they have such a medieval culture in the 21st century, where they treat women like servants and sex slaves.

Here just one example from Al Jazeera. There are many more.


It is only in societies where women are FREE that sex trafficking does not happen, but when you have a culture that denies men sexual activity before marriage, while at the same time teaching them that women are beneath them and subservient, well you have a recipe for sexual predation. I will never accept a society that is so willfully EVIL towards one half of humanity. They lock their own women away and bring in foreign women to rape.

I am not interested in debating the usual conflict of civilization crap with you here (no offense), my point was that refusing to travel to someplace because you can't try and screw the local girls was akin to sex tourism. Afterwards if you want to debate about whether we should ristrict the very idea of "sex tourism" to prostitution, that's another issue, I personnally think it goes much beyond.

Anyways, prostitution tends to be important in places where men are much more present than women, and since the sex ratio in the UAE is disproportionate, the consequences are understandable. It's not just a question of gender roles (well it is, but in the way you presented it). Also, forced prostitution happens in many areas including in western Europe and of course the United States.


I am clearly not a fan of the Dubai neoliberal dream, and I have expressed my opinions on the issue of migrant workers a few times before. However I find the arguments that are used here to be ridiculous.

[Fitzrovian]

Originally Posted by eklips

Indeed, you can't judge it through a few pictures, but the same is true with the old Dubai pics posted here, which is exactly why I made this comment.

Well there is a difference between hand-picked photos, taken and selected for special effect, and random Google streetview snapshots. I am sure our friend from Brisbane could find pics of the Queen St area in Brisbane that would make it look like Times Square.

Anyway, even on Google you can tell that Brisbane is quite vibrant:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brisba...,200.5,,0,-3.5

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brisba...232.03,,0,9.25


What were you expecting to see, Mumbai?

[krnboy1009]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

More "old Dubai " pics











The old Ajman

Nothing ugly about it, just typical average regular blue collar neighborhood to me.

[eklips]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

Well there is a difference between hand-picked photos, taken and selected for special effect, and random Google streetview snapshots. I am sure our friend from Brisbane could find pics of the Queen St area in Brisbane that would make it look like Times Square.

Anyway, even on Google you can tell that Brisbane is quite vibrant:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brisba...,200.5,,0,-3.5

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brisba...232.03,,0,9.25


What were you expecting to see, Mumbai?

I actually looked at the center and even went through the spot you selected. It doesn't look any more frequented (I'm not going to say "vibrant" as this is a subjective, or at least cultural, term) then Dubai on the SASH SCF pics selected on this thread. Which is why I found this guy's argument about Brisbane being supposedly so much "busier" to be slightly arrogant and exaggerated :roll:

[Dimethyltryptamine]

Originally Posted by eklips

I've just toured a little bit of Brisbane on street view, to be honest it doesn't seem to be no Cairo or Tokyo either...

Lol I should hope not.... Brisbane is a city of 2 million, not 30.

[Fitzrovian]

Originally Posted by eklips

I actually looked at the center and even went through the spot you selected. It doesn't look any more frequented (I'm not going to say "vibrant" as this is a subjective, or at least cultural, term) then Dubai on the SASH SCF pics selected on this thread. Which is why I found this guy's argument about Brisbane being supposedly so much "busier" to be slightly arrogant and exaggerated :roll:

Again, I am not quite sure what you were expecting to see. People walking on top of each other?

This is Tokyo, couple of blocks from Shibuya Station:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Shibuy...,125.58,,0,1.5

New York, half a block from Times Square:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.757781...03.07,,0,-1.31

Your hometown, Paris, half a block from Champs Elysees:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Paris,...2,49.5,,0,0.56

See what I mean?

Having been to Brisbane I can attest that it does indeed get very busy downtown, especially during peak hours.

As for Dubai, I haven't been there but from the pics some of the street scenes looked busy and others not so much. But the overall impression is not one of an extraordinarily bustling city (considering these were supposed to be "showcase" photos). So it doesn't seem our friend from Brisbane was that far off the mark.

[earthJoker]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

Well there is a difference between hand-picked photos, taken and selected for special effect, and random Google streetview snapshots.

In street view it usually looks like they even intentionally tried to drive trough streets in empty hours. Of course those don't pics won't look busy.

[Fitzrovian]

Originally Posted by earthJoker

In street view it usually looks like they even intentionally tried to drive trough streets in empty hours. Of course those don't pics won't look busy.

That would certainly make sense, especially in cities like New York and London... Unless they wanted to sit in traffic all day.

[Dimethyltryptamine]

Thanks, man! I've been to Dubai a few times on my way to Europe, and from what I have seen, I can say with confidence that it is hardly a bustling city. It's not the end of the world because of that, I just can't stand when people make it out to be something it is not! Parts, very small parts can be very crowded, but all-in-all, it's not really a busy city.

Now Brisbane isn't the busiest city in the world, I never tried to make claim to that, but as a city of comparable size to Dubai (in fact, it's a hell of a lot smaller when you factor in Dubai's transient population) but like most larg(er) Australian cities, it punches well above its weight.


image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/craigjewell/
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6548685...48733/sizes/l/
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3701288...n/photostream/



Aussie Bhoy (ssc member)

On the average working day, this is what Brisbane looks like. Note: these aren't taken at peak-hour, either... that is even busier again.

[Fitzrovian]

Thanks for these great pics, they bring back some fond memories. Brisbane is awesome.

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

image hosted on flickr

Now that's what I call a bustling town.

[Acosta]

Great pics from Brissy.

[Skyprince]

I've been to Australia ( Perth & Fremantle ) and I found both Perth & Fremantle are almost dead after 8 pm . Someone told me other main cities in Australia ( except for biggest ones like Sydney & Melbourne ) are similar too. Vast majority of restaurants, shops, etc are closed by eight.

By contrast, Dubai is very alive till late midnight, the noise, the vibe, hustle & bustle are simply awesome , There are many restaurants, shops & hypermarkets opening 24-7 ! It could be the local Emirati tradition of having dining/shopping during nighttime and this could be a culture brought by South Asians- in India for example, cities are all alive till late midnight. From some of the most luxurious shops/restaurants in the world to the crappiest-looking ones, the choice in Dubai & UAE is very very very very diversed, something I didn't see in Australia ( with its quality control ) .

This is not comparing, because it's a matter of different lifestyles , but just to deny the notion that Dubai is "hardly a bustling city ". In fact, the extreme opposite is true and Dubai is the last place ever you can call such.

[Manila-X]

Or San Antonio!

[seaniscoming]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

But K-pop isn't popular in Middle East, Africa, and even in most of Europe. They are popular in East Asia, most of Southeast Asia, and where else ??

Same with Dubai- their folk dance & Bedouin Music, while not popular in East Asia, is quite popular in almost every corner of Middle East and parts of Africa. Once u'r in Dubai and live there for few months u will get familiar with many local Emirati & expats celebrities.

I think that you underestimate k-pop.
Even thoungh I'm not a fan of K-pop, k-pop is gaining the world recognition more and more.

For example, there is even k-pop charts on Billboard in US.
http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/k-pop-hot-100

There are Japan hot 100, Korea hot 100, UK charts, German Charts, canadian charts but There is NO UAE DUBAI CHARTS.

Also, k-pop is spreading in latin america amd europe even if is still small.

[Skyprince]

Some people tend to say Arab Gulf cities lacks nightlife .

But why Dubai, Doha etc needs nightlife ? It's not part of local culture so why need to "fake" it with something brought from abroad ? I prefer to see a city in its original form as it can

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine

On the average working day, this is what Brisbane looks like. Note: these aren't taken at peak-hour, either... that is even busier again.

Because the climate , culture and lifestyle of Brisbane and Dubai are different.

Dubai is hot with non-stop sunshine ( which cannot be faulted ) thus part of the "crowds" are transfered into shopping malls and endless shops during daytime - But still many parts of Dubai are very, very bustling with pedestrians , again have u been to Deira ? Deira area is full of people during daytime, and even bigger ( and far more crowded ) than downtown Perth.

Also in the Gulf most people prefer to have "indoor shopping" thus the popularity of shopping malls . That said, street shopping is very popular at night.

[Dimethyltryptamine]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

I've been to Australia ( Perth & Fremantle ) and I found both Perth & Fremantle are almost dead after 8 pm . Someone told me other main cities in Australia ( except for biggest ones like Sydney & Melbourne ) are similar too. Vast majority of restaurants, shops, etc are closed by eight.

Perth has archaic trading laws. Most shops shut at 5pm. Though the bigger cities, even the Gold Coast and Adelaide allow trading later than that and feel busier at street level, despite the fact they're smaller cities. Sydney and Melbourne are a ways ahead when it comes to trading well into the night, but Brisbane is catching up to its southern counterparts.

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Because the climate , culture and lifestyle of Brisbane and Dubai are different.

Dubai is hot ( which cannot be faulted ) thus part of the "crowds" are transfered into shopping malls and endless shops during daytime - But still most of Dubai are very, very bustling with pedestrians , again have u been to Deira ? Deira area is full of people during daytime, and even bigger ( and far more crowded ) than downtown Perth.

Also in the Gulf most people prefer to have "indoor shopping" thus the popularity of shopping malls . That said, street shopping is very popular at night.

I'm not doubting the difference in culture, but you can't say that Dubai is bustling, rah rah rah, when I know damn right it's not, then blame the cultural and climatic differences. I know Dubai is hot, that's generally the case when you build a city on the edge of a desert. Most of Dubai is not bustling with pedestrians lol... No, I haven't been to Deira and I wouldn't doubt it's busier than Perth. Perth isn't an example I gave because I knew it isn't busy, and is significantly lesser in size to Dubai.

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by seaniscoming

I think that you underestimate k-pop.
Even thoungh I'm not a fan of K-pop, k-pop is gaining the world recognition more and more.

For example, there is even k-pop charts on Billboard in US.
http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/k-pop-hot-100

There are Japan hot 100, Korea hot 100, UK charts, German Charts, canadian charts but There is NO UAE DUBAI CHARTS.

Also, k-pop is spreading in latin america amd europe even if is still small.

If there are any known popular entertainers or musicians that are from Dubai, they would be part of The Arab hot 100.

MTV Arabia is based in Dubai though it mostly show popular music from all around The Middle East especially from Lebanon.

On the other than, the hip-hop scene in Dubai is growing though most of its rap artists / groups are from other Middle Eastern countries but live in this city.

[oliver999]

we should respect other cultures, these houses and streets may look not so good for us,but good for arab people.

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Some people tend to say Arab Gulf cities lacks nightlife .

But why Dubai, Doha etc needs nightlife ? It's not part of local culture so why need to "fake" it with something brought from abroad ? I prefer to see a city in its original form as it can

Majority of those participating in this thread are from the western world including Aus/NZ.

And most westerners would expect the same culture and lifestyle of their cities in eastern and arab cities.

Nightlife may matter to westerners visiting this region but it does not to those native of this region especially to most Arabs.

As with Dubai, at least this city allows special permits for western expats to purchase and drink alcohol, and even some nightlife areas where they can hang out.