ISTANBUL | LRT, Subway, Tram

[hokomoko]

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


www.kobiline.com/web/tramturk

[Ashis Mitra]

http://www.dersaadettramvayi.com/kaynak.html is the best website about Istanbul tram, but sadly, it is in Turkish, which I can't read. How can I translate the pages to English?

[rabelaisien]

Monorail vehicle using one rail of the tramway http://video.google.fr/videoplay?doc...506878&q=train

[Ashis Mitra]

Will the following lines be made in future as a M2 type metro (not as M1 like hafif metro)? If yes, please give me their stations, target dates, and inform me are those will underground or not-

a)Yenikapi - Bagcilar - Basaksehir 20 km
b)Otogar - Besiktas 13.5 km (Linear Metro due to steep gradients)
c)Yeşilköy-Atatürk Airport-Bahcelievler-İkitelli metro line. Planned line will be 14.3 km long.
d)Bakırköy-Bahçelievler-Bağcılar metro line. Planned line will be 8.8 km long.
e)Yenikapı-Bakırköy (D-100) metro line. Planned line will be 7 km long.
f)Kabataş-Beşiktaş-Mecidiyeköy-Kagithane-Alibeyköy metro line. Planned line will be 10 km long.
g)22 km long Otogar-Bağcılar-Başakşehir-Olimpiyat Stadı metro line
h)Üsküdar-Beykoz Metro line

[Messi]

Actually there aren't two types of metro in Istanbul, to be excatly in the world. The municipality used the term "hafif metro" for M1 in order to distinguish it from the other line. Until last year namings like M1, M2 didn't exist so they called one line hafif metro "light metro" and the other just "metro". The other was called hafif metro because it was not 100% underground but also built on viaducts so they named it light metro but there aren't two types of metro. There is light rail which is a type of higher capacity tramway with isolated track. Since more lines are coming up soon they introduced the M1,M2,M3 etc.. system.

Now to your questions. I don't know how to answer your questions since some of your lines you mentioned aren't u/c yet, some are partly u/c and you also didn't add some which are actually u/c but let's try..

a)Yenikapi - Bagcilar - Basaksehir 20 km: Here you see a map of that line but that's not how the line runs actually. http://i40.tinypic.com/34i0cqb.jpg
It is more Kirazli-I - Basaksehir and Kirazli-I - Olimpiyat Stadi since the line splits in two lines. This line is supposed to go until Bakirköy someday (you can see it on the map, the blue dashed line)

The other line on the map "Esenler-Kirazli-1" is the extension of M1 (or hafif metro how you call it) amd that one is supposed to go to Halkali one day (also blue dashed line)

On the map it looks like one long line (that's also what many people think) but these are two lines which cross in Kirazli-I if you look carefully.

These two lines abobe are supposed to be completed by the end of 2009 but I think it will be more within the first months of 2010.


b)Otogar - Besiktas 13.5 km (Linear Metro due to steep gradients):
There isn't such a project as far as I know but you can travel from Otokar to Besiktas already by metro. First you take the M1 and switch to M2 and there you take the finicular in Taksim to Kabatas. From Kabatas you have to walk like 10 minutes.

c)Yeşilköy-Atatürk Airport-Bahcelievler-İkitelli metro line. Planned line will be 14.3 km long: Never heard of such a line either but again once the lines I posted above on the picture are completed you'll be able to travel from the airport to Ikitelli by changing the metro in kirazli-I

d)Bakırköy-Bahçelievler-Bağcılar metro line. Planned line will be 8.8 km long: Well that the blue dashed line I was talking about above. The construction didn't start since it's part of the second phase project will are planned to be completed in 2014-2015. Right now first phase lines are u/c which will be completed in 2009-2011

f)Kabataş-Beşiktaş-Mecidiyeköy-Kagithane-Alibeyköy metro line. Planned line will be 10 km long: This is third phase which is the last phase, to be completed by 2023 (100th anniversary of the Turkish Republic" Until that day all there phases will be completed which means about 550 km of subway in Istanbul.

g)22 km long Otogar-Bağcılar-Başakşehir-Olimpiyat Stadı metro line
Well that's first line I talked about above.


h)Üsküdar-Beykoz Metro line That's also second phase but there is another line Kadiköy-Kartal which is parallel to that line and that one will be completed next year as well.

It must be irritating for you since you don't know Istanbul but even for us it is irritating. How come that an Indian guy is so much interested in Istanbul's metro development?

[Matty]

I really dig those train interiors.

[hokomoko]

30 new Citadis 301 evolution tramcars are on production line for Istanbul T1 :

[hokomoko]

image hosted on flickr

[hokomoko]

image hosted on flickr

[Ashis Mitra]

Originally Posted by Messi

It must be irritating for you since you don't know Istanbul but even for us it is irritating. How come that an Indian guy is so much interested in Istanbul's metro development?

That's the question. I'm very very much interested about Istanbul for the following reasons -

I live in Kolkata (formerly Calcutta) in India, and my city is running oldest operating Asian tram since 1902 & oldest Indian metro since 1984.

There are some telepathic similarities between my city Kolkata & Ystanbul. Both were the former capital of their country, and both cities have tram & metro. The only tram difference is that Kolkata is running tram continuously till 1902, against many obstacles, whereas Ystanbul had no trams between 1966 & 1990.

There are infinite thanks for your answeres about Istanbul metro. I'll later ask you more & more questions until I'm satisfied about Istanbul tram & metro, because I've never met anybody such you, who is mostly serious about Istanbul's tram & metro.

[Messi]

I'm planing to draw a current map on a google earth map with existing and u/c lines but I'm too lazy right now.. Including the Marmaray project there is about 110 km u/c right now. Have you seen any topic about Kolkata subway around here. Since you mean there are some similarities I would also like to know if both systems look similar as well.

[Ashis Mitra]

Messi, I've recentrly created this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Istanbul. My request to you to verify that page and also point me are those informations correct or not.

You can get latest updates about Kolkata tramway & subway from Wikipedia searching 'Calcutta Tramways Company' & 'Kolkata Metro'.

Also search tag in 'skyscrapercity' typing 'Kolkata', then you can get two (or more) links about urban rail transport of Kolkata.

[Ashis Mitra]

Messi, thank you very much for your answers about Istanbul metro. I think there are some confusion about Istanbul tram & metro system.

About metro –

No doubt M2 is a metro, but I think M1 is actually a light rail.
Universally, metro is a separate railway system, which
1) Completely independent from other road and rail traffic.
2) Different and better rolling stock than suburban train.
3) Runs on high frequency (from 2 to 5 minutes headway)
4) Much beautiful & decorated station with elevators & escalators.
5) Wide coaches like suburban train.
6) Runs mainly underground, although some systems are elevated/at graded.

Side by side, light rail is a railway system, which
1) Completely independent from other road and rail traffic, accessible via stations with platforms.
2) Runs on lower frequency than metro, but higher than tram (from 5 to 10 minutes headway)
3) Much beautiful & decorated stations, some (not all) with elevators & escalators.
4) Narrower coaches like tram, narrower than metro.
5) Runs mainly at graded, although some systems are elevated/partly underground.

Worldwide, which light rail runs partly underground, it is called light metro also. That means it is a lighter version of a true metro. Considering those facts, I’m sure that M2 is a light rail/light metro but not a metro, like M1.

About tram –

I knew from internet that T3 is the European side heritage tram, which uses same type stock like pre 1966 tram system, and T5 is the Asian side heritage tram, which uses second-hand stocks imported from Gotha.

Side by side, there are three modern tram routes – T1, T2 & T4. From various internet sources, I knew that–

T1 first used ABB stocks, which were high floor, and now is using Bombardier stocks, which are low floor. When high floor stocks ran through T1, all stops had high platforms, which has demolished after arrival of the low floor stock. But T2 is fully using ABB high floor stocks. T4 is also partly using ABB high floor stock. That ABB high floor stocks are also used in M2, which is called light metro (light rail).

So my question is, although T2 & T4 is called tram, but hence they’re using light rail (light metro) stocks, aren’t they actually light rail? So I think, T2 & T4 are light rail/light metro but not tram, like T1.

Is there any plan to replace existing high floor stocks of T2 & T4 by low floor stocks like T1?

Another question, are those Citadis low floor stocks will run in all tram routes, i.e. on T1, T2 & T4 in future?

Please clear my confusions about metro & tram stated above.

[Ashis Mitra]

http://www.trainsofturkey.com/maps/istanbul_tram11.jpg

There is a 1920 electric tram map of Istanbul. But the northern portion is not complete. The tracks to north from Sisli & Bebek are not shown in the map. Also the Asian side’s tramway is completely not shown. Please either publish a full prominent map of Istanbul at their full fledge containing both Asian & European system, or write details about those not shown routes.

This is another electric tram map of 1950 in the link - http://www.dersaadettramvayi.com/guzergah.html, but the texts are too small for read. Can anybody post here a bigger prominent map containing both Asian & European side network of pre 1966?

[hokomoko]

image hosted on flickr

A bigger old map for Ashis,Iwill try to upload another one for Asian side tram lines on Friday or Saturday after scanning at home.
Also click to the below line to see many many old pictures ,if you like you can be a member then you can see the bigger versions too,But only in Turkish unfortunately,the pictures are free for using but you should not cut off the logo wowturkey.
http://wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic...=22887&start=0

[hokomoko]

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Historic trams of Istanbul now operating only on Istiklal Street / T5
image hosted on flickr

A capture from movie "TOPKAPI"
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An old UKHT tram of Asian side which was abandoned in 1966 can be seen at Istanbul RMK Museum currently.

[hokomoko]

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M1 and T4 Are using these 1986 made ABB cars.


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T1 AND T2 meeting area in Zeytinburnu.
image hosted on flickr

T1 Bombardier at Sirkeci.....

[hokomoko]

image hosted on flickr

[Ashis Mitra]

Thanks for the Asian side map, but the european side is partly hazy. Can you send a clear version of the European side of this image?

T2, T4 & Hafif metro is using same ABB rolling stock, so they are all light rail, not tram. Am I right?

[Messi]

T1 is the only line with lowfloor vehicles and which is not isolated from traffic, the rest is, many have also underground parts so yes they are light rail. In contrast hafif metro is called M1 now and is considered as metro.