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Old May 30th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #61
Erebus555
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I'd even hazard to say that it's ego over economics in London as well... the economics of it all down there seems very unsustainable, but that's for another discussion...
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Old May 30th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #62
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I think an 80- 90mish tower is achievable on the site for the hotel
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Old May 30th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
I'd even hazard to say that it's ego over economics in London as well... the economics of it all down there seems very unsustainable, but that's for another discussion...
It's more to do with occupiers needing in excess of 500,000 sq ft of space in one building. There are not many sites that can support such buildings.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:20 AM   #64
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People are getting over excited here. Skyscrapers are expensive and you need high prices to justify them. Canary Wharf gets £46.50 per sq ft and the City £55 per sq ft.

Birmingham Prime Rents have stabilised around £28.50.

The outlook is for limited development keeping prices stabilised with the majority of demand being supplied by refurbished space.

http://www.bpf.org.uk/en/files/reita...pring_2012.pdf

At the moment Birmingham has loads of potential office sites. Apart from around Colmore Row I doubt there are many spots in Birmingham that could generate the rents required for above 20 storeys. Both of the proposed buildings look pretty large at 12 and 14/16 storeys. These proposals are reasonably ambitious considering the economic climate.
Whilst it would be ambitious to go ahead now, is it realistic to think that the rents will increase drastically with the arrival of HS2, the station being just a stones throw from this site?

Rather go big and tall now, than go second rate and end up sacrificing the city park and problematic plots due to listed status buildings, roads etc...later down the line, if and when demand increases. IMO.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:44 AM   #65
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whilst there is logic there, does that logic translate to a business case which banks would be willing the lend towards?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:12 AM   #66
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Whilst it would be ambitious to go ahead now, is it realistic to think that the rents will increase drastically with the arrival of HS2, the station being just a stones throw from this site?

Rather go big and tall now, than go second rate and end up sacrificing the city park and problematic plots due to listed status buildings, roads etc...later down the line, if and when demand increases. IMO.
Who knows what the future holds. There are several factors to consider. It's going to be 14 years till the line opens, that's going to be a complete business cycle along with another property boom and bust.
Developers are looking to make money now. They can't sit on land in the ope they could shift a million sq ft in one go, they'd rather shift a 100,000 sq ft a year for 10 years. Less risk, less capital needed, creates cash flow.


So at the moment it's all about cash flow picking up distressed assets looking at refurbishments and some people with financing will look at some sensible development. As Birmingham seems to want to expand the size of it's city centre, there are potentially loads of sites where new 6 to 10 storey blocks could rise. As far as a livable cities go I think it's preferable to have a large dense centre.


Also how much is the HS2 station actually going to change the geography of the city? The proposed station is next Moor st and not far from New Street, so really there is no reason that it will undermine Colmore row as the preferred location. It boosts Eastside, but Eastside was happening anyway. At the moment HS2 may speed up the development of Eastside and it may be a bit denser than planned but it will not be canary wharf II.

The real test for the city will be in the 2030's and what effect HS2 may have on it. It will be a few years before anyone knows. Will it cause business to grow by a noticeable amount? We shall see. If it does have a large effect then down all those 80's and 90's blocks will go.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 10:11 AM   #67
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seems we need to be looking ot for the p-lannign application then in the next few days....

Nikal re-thinks its Masshouse scheme



PROPERTY developer Nikal has submitted a planning application for the second phase of its mixed-use Masshouse development in Birmingham.

It has opted to revise the original planning permission, granted in 2008 following changes to the wider economic climate and the announcement of a number of key infrastructure changes within the city.

While the quantum of space and its uses remain unchanged - with 60,000 sq m of Grade A commercial space, retail and a 200 bed hotel and apartments, all set around a new central square - several key amendments have been made.

The new public square has been relocated from the centre of the site to the edge, with one side open to Priory Queensway. The office buildings themselves have also been reconfigured, offering larger floorplates across fewer floors.

Nikal’s development director James Payne said: “Our original scheme was conceived in a very different economic climate and in order to ensure that we are delivering a new commercial district fit for the future demands of the city, we have made changes to our consented scheme that will still ensure exemplary space whilst focusing on satisfying future market demand and quicker delivery.

“One of the key alterations sees movement of the proposed square that will open up the development, creating a more inviting environment and enhances the pedestrian route connecting the City Park and HS2 to the Colmore Business District and Snow Hill area. It also increases the benefit of being south-facing, giving occupiers more time to enjoy the space for longer and creating a truly inviting environment.”

Payne said Nikal has worked closely with Glenn Howells Architects and property consultancy Savills to devise this revised application which also allows for the delivery of the scheme to take place in phases, with any single building and the new public realm able to be developed first, depending on market needs.

Revisions have also been made to the application in order to ensure that it takes full advantage of Birmingham City Council’s development blueprint, the Big City Plan, which had not been implemented when the original permission was granted.

Nikal is hoping that permission will be received by September.

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westm...-_Daily_E-mail
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Old June 29th, 2012, 10:17 AM   #68
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and a similar version from egi...

Nikal submits revised Masshouse plan
By Daniel Cunningham | Office | Retail | Residential | 28-06-2012 | 14:28 | Print

Manchester-based developer Nikal has submitted a revised planning application for the second phase of its £600m Masshouse scheme in Birmingham.

Nikal originally won outline planning consent in 2008 for 645,000 sq ft of grade A offices, shops and a 200-bedroom hotel, plus flats set around a public square.

Under the revised plans, the developer will retain the amount of space and mix of uses originally proposed, although the office buildings will be reconfigured to provide larger floorplates across fewer floors.

The location of the public square has also been shifted to the edge of the site.The application allows for the delivery of the scheme to take place in phases, with any single building and the public realm able to be developed first.

In May, Nikal appointed Glenn Howells Architects and Savills to draw up the revised masterplan for the site as a result of changes to the wider economic climate and the announcement of a number of key infrastructure changes within the city, specifically the publishing of Birmingham's Big City Plan and the government's decision on the location of the HS2 terminal.

The first completed phase of the scheme contains more than 340 flats across two buildings.

James Payne, development director of Nikal, said: "Our original scheme was conceived in a very different economic climate and, in order to ensure that we are delivering a new commercial district fit for the future demands of the city, we have made changes to our consented scheme that will still ensure exemplary space while focusing on satisfying future market demand and quicker delivery.

"I feel that we are now in a strong position to provide one of only few deliverable solutions to the perceived upcoming shortage of grade A space that Birmingham will be facing in the next 24 months."
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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #69
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I can't wait for this to start.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #70
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Hopefully get some good density on this site. It will be exciting to see the new plans
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #71
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what I assume is the hotel building looks a decent height, 19 storeys?

definitely looks high quality and is really needed
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Old September 11th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #72
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Don't get too excited - it's just an application to revise certain conditions from the original masterplan. It still suggests this is moving along behind the scenes though.

2012/04280/PA

http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/N...DAURI=PLANNING
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #73
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Good news, really excited for this one, and the courts of course. About the courts though, what do we think will happen to the existing courts once the new one opens? Could be a valuable piece of land eventually.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #74
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looks like we may be able to get excited soon though... Anyone got access? sounds like we have some pics...

Quote:
First look: Masshouse, Birmingham
07 September 2012 | By David Hatcher
Nikal has submitted planning application for second phase of Eastside scheme
http://www.propertyweek.com/news/new...042052.article
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:11 AM   #75
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http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westm...-_Daily_E-mail

Masshouse scheme set for planning approval

PLANS for a new office quarter in central Birmingham are likely to be green-lighted by council planning chiefs next Thursday.

Nikkal Group’s Masshouse scheme is made up of 600,000 sq m of commercial space, retail, a 200-bedroom hotel and apartments set around a central square.

The development site is currently being used as a surface car park opposite Hotel La Tour.

In the current environment in which Prime Minister David Cameron has urged local authorities to do all they can to get developments such as this out of the ground, it would be a huge shock if the scheme is turned down by Birmingham City Council.

The application allows for the scheme to be built in stages.


There is also a piece in BP today with some 'exclusive images'. It gets a little mixed up between phase I and II saying that phase II was originally to be home to the magistrates court.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #76
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i still cant find a planning application for this?!?!?!?
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #77
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Is this it?

2012/04280/PA

http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/N...APP&key=569027
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:46 AM   #78
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it is indeed it ive just had a look through it.. i like what i see....
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Old November 29th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #79
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see the height of it? :O this aint gona happen approved or not!
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Old November 29th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #80
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How tall is it? I've tried to look at the documents but they just don't want to load.
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