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Old December 13th, 2005, 05:53 PM   #41
DrJoe
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Ottawa has some nice looking little commuter trains by Bombardier. Ottawa doesnt have much of a network though.

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Old December 13th, 2005, 06:33 PM   #42
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They're purely functional, North America seems to base its mass transit on NYC stock. At least traisn built by bombardier in aus are appealing :P


reguardless, they still look good, which lines do they operate on?
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Old December 13th, 2005, 08:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
Ottawa has some nice looking little commuter trains by Bombardier. Ottawa doesnt have much of a network though.

That looks like a regular light-weight DMU, they're not allowed in the US because of excessive FRA weight regulations. LIRR and Metro North EMU's have to be double the weight of BART cars to be compliant with federal regulations even though they use modern signal systems that make a crash unlikely, and have little to no freight traffic. The FRA is probably the most passenger hostile railroad authority anywhere in the world.
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Old December 13th, 2005, 08:31 PM   #44
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They're called double-deckers.
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Old December 13th, 2005, 08:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_nick
That looks like a regular light-weight DMU, they're not allowed in the US because of excessive FRA weight regulations. LIRR and Metro North EMU's have to be double the weight of BART cars to be compliant with federal regulations even though they use modern signal systems that make a crash unlikely, and have little to no freight traffic. The FRA is probably the most passenger hostile railroad authority anywhere in the world.
Well... being heavier, don't make the trains more safe in case of a derailment!

Take for example a car...If you hit a wall, having a heavy car isn't any better than having a light one. You just want the safest one... and that doesn't have to do with the weight.
A new Renault Clio (wheights about 1 ton)(5 star in EuroNcap tests) is much safer in a crash against a wall than a 2 tonns Opel Frontera from 2002, which only got 3 stars.

It's true that if 2 cars collide, the heavy has the advantage, but trains don't usually colide... most accidents happen because of derailment... and if all trains are light, there is no problem even in the event of 2 colliding.
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Old December 13th, 2005, 09:18 PM   #46
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^ But tell that to the FRA, by their logic, heavier = safer, much like the American mindset on SUVs. The thing is, the US uses an ancient signal system on most railroads, and those who use modern systems for some reason have to comply with regulations designed for those ancient systems where collisions are more likely.
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Old December 14th, 2005, 01:00 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting
They're called double-deckers.
huh?
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Old December 16th, 2005, 11:52 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting
They're called double-deckers.
In British English, yes.

But in American English they call them bi-level.

Two nations divided by a common language!


(actually, if you look at regional accents then Britain is fractured, as there are so many of them - even within cities such as London there are geographical variations)
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Old December 17th, 2005, 01:31 AM   #49
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I grew up in Kansas and always referred to London's red route-master buses as Double Deckers when I was a kid. As for the NJT cars, the press is pretty divided on what to call them. At the NJT website they're officially bi-levels, but the New York Times called 'em double deckers a month ago. I just call them beasts! They're huge! I can't wait to see one in the Meadowlands Maintenance Complex and it shouldn't be too long before I get to ride one on my way up from Philly.

And just my opinion... yes, they're UGLY! Those places where the roofline steps down really make it look like a LEGO train! As some have pointed out here, American trains are about crash-worthiness and that tends to mean that rolling stock is made out of heavy steel. Also, railroad maintenance workers only know how to work with steel (which is convenient for fixing dents after accidents). If you're wondering why American trains are so ugly, just look at GM, Ford and Chrysler cars... we just simply don't understand what good design is. I can't wait until Stadler's GT-6/8s, Bombardier's Talents and Siemens' Sprinters and Desiros start popping up in US transit systems. I think it's only a matter of time before this happens and then American transit riders will see what they've been missing out on all of these years. Of course, we'll have to get rid of the FRA's stringent safety regulations first, but I think we'll whittle away at those rules quickly enough.
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Old December 17th, 2005, 08:00 PM   #50
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The american railroads are dominated by frieght haulers, and the last thing they want is passenger trains getting in their way. To top it off, the airlines have some pretty heavy political clout, too. So the last thing the government is going to do right now is make it any easier for rail traffic to get a foothold.

Already we can see the growth in heavy commuter trains, imagine what would happen if sudenly it became possible to run lightwieght, inexepnsive ones? I would love to see them come in, but until there is some major force that will change the governments outlook, it probably won't happen.
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Old December 17th, 2005, 09:43 PM   #51
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There are no bi-level/dubble-decker trains in England, so maybe when they come they can give them a new name.

Some pictures of European bi-level by Bombadier

Netherlands, IRM emu's


Germany, Metronom with Bombadier Traxx Locomotive


Luxembourg, this is a German Design also seen in Denmark.


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I like these more then the North American ones, because these more ellegant and less functional. Especially the Dutch ones, these have a beautiful interior design but are not practical. The staircases are to small and there is no place to put your bagage.
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Old December 18th, 2005, 01:55 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudship
The american railroads are dominated by frieght haulers, and the last thing they want is passenger trains getting in their way. To top it off, the airlines have some pretty heavy political clout, too. So the last thing the government is going to do right now is make it any easier for rail traffic to get a foothold.

Already we can see the growth in heavy commuter trains, imagine what would happen if sudenly it became possible to run lightwieght, inexepnsive ones? I would love to see them come in, but until there is some major force that will change the governments outlook, it probably won't happen.
Modern signalling systems make train collisions an extremely unlikely event, they still happen in many places in the US because of the antiquated signal systems in place. There should be a waiver for those railroads, like the LIRR, that have modern signalling systems where collisions are unlikely.
Lighter trains make for more engergy efficient, cheaper operation and faster acceleration, which means you can run trains more frequently.
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Old December 18th, 2005, 11:51 AM   #53
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Spanish double decker near Barcelona, photo taken by Urban Dave.

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Old December 19th, 2005, 03:11 AM   #54
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[quote]I like these more then the North American ones, because these more ellegant and less functional.[\quote]

True, but they are also all EMU's. The US never got it's act together enough to electrify anything but a few section of tracks. I also think that the weight and size issues probably have an effect as well. And in reality, there are a lot of people over here who have this concept in their mind that trains have to look, well, pretty blunt. Wouldn't want to make something attractive - then people might use it, no?
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Old December 19th, 2005, 10:38 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asohn
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I have to say I don't like it: And the doors are way to small for a double decker.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 06:25 PM   #56
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New York Grand Central Station











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Old June 12th, 2006, 06:43 PM   #57
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wonderful
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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:22 AM   #58
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its a nice station no doubt. The platforms are dirty as sin however
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Old June 13th, 2006, 01:49 AM   #59
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nice station....
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Old June 13th, 2006, 04:23 PM   #60
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It's the greatest station in the world.
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