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Old December 6th, 2015, 08:11 AM   #961
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I would say it is still bad. Changing trains midway through the journey, for whatever the reason, is highly unacceptable. Now imagine if you have to do that at night?
Passenger ridership between JB and KL and KL and Tumpat are pretty small and loss making. Hence this is a factor why KTMB is willing to do this.

KTMB may lose passengers from KL who rely on the cheap intercity service to travel to the East Coast and JB,(these people can switch to express busses which are still relatively cheap), but KTMB is getting new passengers willing to pay premium fares on the ETS service to the North. My mother, brother and his fiance were going to Ipoh on the weekend 2 weeks ago and they could only get 2 seats and the ETS trains were full.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 11:19 AM   #962
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Passenger ridership between JB and KL and KL and Tumpat are pretty small and loss making. Hence this is a factor why KTMB is willing to do this.
That is like going to kill the loco hauled passenger service altogether.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 11:55 AM   #963
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That is like going to kill the passenger service altogether.
Do read my response again.

The ETS service has untapped new passenger market in Klang Valley,which is, people travelling between KL and the northern cities. The ETS division of KTMB is profitable. The intercity service is not. This shows that the ETS that is dependent on Klang Valley-Northern traffic is very lucrative financially.

KTMB also actually do not have enough diesel locos theoretically. With more locos detached from the intercity service, the potential of Class 26 and Class 29 can be maximized for freight while the leased YDM locos from India can be eventually returned. The YDMs are being phases out.


Even with the interchange at Gemas, the efficiency of the ETS still make the journey viable and more comfortable. By 2021, JB-KL-Padang besar will fully utilize electric trains.its not a permanent situation.

I believe the diesel hauled services will be provided during festive seasons when demand for KTM Intercity is at its peak. Who knows.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 12:01 PM   #964
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What about the mythical HSR that's supposed to come online in the early 20s? Will that have an effect on the JB - KL service?

Or they may want to extend the ETS down to JB (hopefully SG too, but we'll see)
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Old December 6th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #965
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What about it?
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Old December 6th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #966
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What about the mythical HSR that's supposed to come online in the early 20s? Will that have an effect on the JB - KL service?

Or they may want to extend the ETS down to JB (hopefully SG too, but we'll see)
The Gemas-JB line was planned for decades and is inevitable. Its not just for passenger but for freight transport.....Malaysia a trading country.

There is no issue with the KTM EDTP and HSR side by side. Japan and europe have regular train service and HSR operating concurrently along the same route.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #967
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The Gemas-JB line was planned for decades and is inevitable. Its not just for passenger but for freight transport.....Malaysia a trading country.

There is no issue with the KTM EDTP and HSR side by side. Japan and europe have regular train service and HSR operating concurrently along the same route.
This is very true, but generally, the legacy rail in Europe has been around for decades and HSR is generally carried out instead of a massive upgrade programme for conventional rail. Also, HSR there tends to be publicly funded and though makes an operational profit, is never (seriously) expected to pay back capital costs.

The difference in Malaysia, and why I think it could be problematic is that proposals so far have been that it should be entirely or largely privately funded, and will be competing against a massively upgraded legacy line running at speeds that will mean the reduction in travel time with HSR won't be nearly as significant as they are now.

That all but inevitably means the gov't will have to bail out the HSR operator by giving them very favorable loans, or having KTM take over the whole show. Ultimately, given the very significant investment KTM has made in the legacy network, and the significant improvements it stands to bring both socially and economically, I'd rather see that bail-out money spent on expanding the existing network and launching new routes. There are some conventional rail projects just crying out to be built that any HSR problems (or over enthusiasm) will likely kill off or delay indefinitely.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 07:36 PM   #968
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It is not confirmed and implemented yet, but ktmb staff says that management have decided on this route by next year. It may change if Malaysians protest . People are angry that the KLIA ERL fares increased by 60% and now Malaysians travelling to the North may may have to fork out almost double using the ETS in addition switching trains at Gemas

The government I understand is refusing to add more subsidies to KTMB (RM200million + per year)while KTMB mow have to deal with the EDTP from Padang Besar to Gemas and maintaining a more sophisticated electric train fleet which include the Klang Valley Komuter 38 EMU fleet and the 15 ETS trains .

Its a reason why KTM komuter fares have increased as KTM Komuter is the most prfitable division and the ETS is steadily adding value to KTMB's revenue. Meanwhile, the diesel hauled intercity service is perpetually suffering losses due to ineffciency and low fares due to social service. And the strategy to force passengers to use the ETS may also be a strategy to increase revenue to cover the additional cost. The ETS service has been so successful in a sense it has convinced the posh middle class of Klang Valley who have never used KTM intercity seevice to use the ETS to travel between KL and the fast industrilizing northern cities.

In addition, the demand for the ETS route from KL to Gemas has been laclustre and loss making. Thhis decision will also ensure the KL-Gemas ETS capacity is well utilized.

The decisim to abolish diesel passenger services along the EDTP stretch is probably a financially pragmatic decision.
That's actually a really good insight. Last time I used the ETS I just avoided the fare hike! And yea, I have tried the ETS and actually was really impressed. Hopefully they will get the service up to a decent frequency. Hourly or half hourly on KL-Ipoh-Butterworth would cause a huge modal shift.

The KL-Gemas ETS is definitely going to hemorrhage money in the short term, until the JB leg is open. At the moment it's pretty much a train to nowhere. Superficially I can see KTMs idea in that forcing East Coast passengers onto it will yield some cash - but it's more likely people will just defect to buses/planes and KTM will wind up with the ECL costing even more. Gov't doesn't really understand that rail investment is long term and strategic, and the benefits don't necessarily show immediately.

Ironically, had the phase one (Seremban-Gemas) project been more ambitious, and included re-opening the Melaka branch, then the initial ETS service before the JB link was completed would be a fully developed service in it's own right, and doubtless turn a decent profit.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #969
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The next phase of electrified double tracking project of KTM main line
Gemas-Johor Bahru (197 km)
Gemas-JB double-tracking details made public
By Jose Barrock / The Edge Malaysia | November 17, 2015 : 6:00 PM MYT
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/my/art...ls-made-public

THE federal government’s plan to build the 197km double-tracking railway line linking Gemas to Johor Baru has a proposed alignment with 11 stations and an additional three to be built later, according to a Notice for Public Inspection released last week.

Current plans are for the railway line to run through Segamat, Genuang, Labis, Bekok, Paloh, Kluang, Mengkibol, Renggam, Layang-Layang, Kulai and Kempas Baru. In addition, there are three future stations — in Senai, Chamek and Tenang — but so far, there is no indication when they will be built.

An interesting facet of the proposed project is that the station in Johor Baru is elevated.

“This increases costs, but then again, it’s best to get it over and done with. It has been in the pipeline for many years,” says a construction industry veteran.

In January 2011, then transport minister Datuk Seri Kong Cho Ha (now Tan Sri) said the government had appointed two consultants to study the Gemas-Johor Baru railway line and was negotiating with Chinese consortiums, which would be appointed later that year, to do the job.

And details are being finalised now — four years down the road.

In a nutshell, the project involves the construction of an electrified double-track line between Gemas and Johor Baru for trains to ply at a speed of 160kph and the building of new stations. It also involves the mediation and integration of the signalling, electrification and communications systems and overhead lines with the existing system from Seremban to Gemas while the operational controls are located in KL Sentral and Gemas.

Interestingly enough, the construction of the tracks will also involve the acquisition of more than 300ha of land — more than 220ha from private entities and about 80ha currently under the purview of the federal government, namely road, river and forest reserves, quarries and graveyards, among others.

Documents sighted by The Edge indicate that several large parcels of land will be acquired from several parties, including about 40ha from Mahamurni Plantations Sdn Bhd and The Kulim Group Ltd — both units of Kulim (M) Bhd, which in turn is controlled by Johor Corp Bhd, the southern-most state’s investment arm — 37.5ha from Sime Darby Bhd and its units, close to 15ha from IOI Corp Bhd and 11ha from Kuala Lumpur Kepong Bhd. An interesting name that popped up is Achi Jaya Plantations Sdn Bhd (1.8ha), a company linked to the family of Sarawak Yang di-Pertua Negeri Tun Abdul Taib Mahmud.

While details such as the cost of the railway line were not disclosed, construction industry players suggest a price tag of about RM8 billion.

China Railway awarded Gemas-JB rail project
BY SHAREN KAUR - 11 DECEMBER 2015 @ 12:07 PM
http://www.nst.com.my/news/2015/12/1...b-rail-project

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia is awarding the Gemas-Johor Baru electrified double tracking project (EDTP) to China Railway, says Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai.

Liow said the Gemas-JB line will complete the whole electrified double tracking rail network up to Padang Besar.

Currently, there are 1,641.4km of railway network in Malaysia, of which 46 per cent are electrified double tracks.

The completion of the Gemas-JB EDTP in 2020 will increase the number to 58 per cent.

Liow was speaking at the opening ceremony of the China High Speed Railway Exhibition, here, today.

"We have committed to and are awarding the contract to China Railway so we can speed up the project, he said.

He said keeping in mind how critical a good transportation network is for economic growth and social inclusion in Malaysia's journey to become a high-income nation, his ministry is working hard to identify new railway lines that will enhance the existing rail network especially within the Klang Valley.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 06:53 PM   #970
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China Railway awarded Gemas-JB rail project
BY SHAREN KAUR - 11 DECEMBER 2015 @ 12:07 PM
http://www.nst.com.my/news/2015/12/1...b-rail-project

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia is awarding the Gemas-Johor Baru electrified double tracking project (EDTP) to China Railway, says Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai.

Liow said the Gemas-JB line will complete the whole electrified double tracking rail network up to Padang Besar.

Currently, there are 1,641.4km of railway network in Malaysia, of which 46 per cent are electrified double tracks.

The completion of the Gemas-JB EDTP in 2020 will increase the number to 58 per cent.

Liow was speaking at the opening ceremony of the China High Speed Railway Exhibition, here, today.

"We have committed to and are awarding the contract to China Railway so we can speed up the project, he said.

He said keeping in mind how critical a good transportation network is for economic growth and social inclusion in Malaysia's journey to become a high-income nation, his ministry is working hard to identify new railway lines that will enhance the existing rail network especially within the Klang Valley.
While they are doing to the double tracking, they should take the opportunity to quad-track from JB to Kulai, or at the very least to Kempas junction, to allow for a Komuter service in JB without conflicting with ETS/Intercity services on what would be the most heavily used stretch in future. If the Tj. Pelepas and Pasir Gudang braches are used for the commuter, which seems pretty obvious, along with a route to Senai/Kulai, you could wind up with the line from Kempas into JB being used by *three* Komuter routes, as well as InterCity services. Quad-tracking now would save an awful lot of congestion and expensive retro-fitted upgrades in future.

Ideally, I'd also take advantage of economies of scale and integration of works to double track and electrify the Tj. Pelepas and Pasir Gudang branches now (with a spur on the Tj.P branch to the 2nd link checkpoint, or if possible, Tuas), along with some basic no-frills stations, and get the works needed for a Komuter system for much less disruption and cost as part of a much larger project. Any JB komuter line that can link up directly to the MRT at Tuas will be a goldmine, given the number of Malaysian workers who commute into Jurong. It'd also get a ton of traffic off the causeways.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 03:50 PM   #971
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I doubt the SG government would look kindly to let MY to have that line into Singapore...
Would just prefer to have a better shuttle from JB and the MY CIQ and they can just take the "transport to Tuas".
Either way most blue collars in JB doesn't goes specifically to Tuas... Some goes to Ubi and so on....
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Old December 17th, 2015, 05:18 PM   #972
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Whatever the justification are made, even on the strongest economic justification, Singaporean will vehemently refuse to have a railway line from Malaysia penetrating their territory like it used to be.
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Old December 18th, 2015, 01:59 AM   #973
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The HSR will go across the straits,afaik. There's also the planned RTS (metro) between Johore and Singapore

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Old December 18th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #974
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I think HSR is special exception
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Old December 18th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #975
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it is an exception, and a pretty painful exception; if I wanna to be nationalist about it.

Good thing the discussions are progressing kinda smoothly...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 04:28 AM   #976
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Well 'surrendering' Tanjung Pagar station (including the accompanying lands) to SG is also a 'pretty painful' experience to MY but it was done nonetheless for the sake of 'good neighbourliness' with SG eh !!!
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Old December 20th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #977
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It's a strange kind of thing to be nationalist about. It's only a transport infrastructure meant for use by both sides. Probably more by Singaporeans since they are richer.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 03:09 PM   #978
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It's a strange kind of thing to be nationalist about. It's only a transport infrastructure meant for use by both sides. Probably more by Singaporeans since they are richer.
Nationalist can be bout lots of stuff.

I would say most likely Malaysians would use such links rather than the Singaporeans ,cos SG have all the stuff ,just that going to JB is to get it cheaper, while the JB people is using the link for work, which is more if compared to the ones going to JB just to get stuff for cheap
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 09:21 AM   #979
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:32 AM   #980
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Intercity Trains 20/21 and 35/36

KTMB has stated all Intercity services between Padang Besar and Gemas will be handled exclusively by ETS equipment. I am enquiring about the fate of Intercity Trains 20/21 - is there a date set for discontinuing these trains between Hat Yai Junction and Gemas? The rumor is mid-February 2016. Also, does anyone have information on the fate of Trains 35/36 between Padang Besar and Butterworth?

Any factual information is appreciated.

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Thai Railway Guide
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