Florida East Coast Industries, Inc. Announces Plans for Private Passenger Rail Service in Florida

[skyscraperhighrise]

Originally Posted by ThatFloridaDude

I'm all for it. I'm still upset with DICK SCOTT for killing HSR.

and for good reason, because the government should stop spending our money for this.
and he did the right thing for good reason.

We better off letting the private sector build a high speed rail, not the government.
that should teach the left a lesson, even though i'm neither left or right, because those terms mean nothing.

[skyscraperhighrise]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

weren't you paying attention to my prior posts?

I was trying to make a point that the governor was wrong in killing HSR. dude says the gov't shouldn't finance public transportation like HSR, which is why I brought up road construction. it's transportation nonetheless, whether on a rail or concrete, and it still traverses an easement.

But not with OUR taxpayer money, something we don't have.
spending is out of control.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

I've yet to find a convincing argument as to why expensive, unsustainable roads should be government subsidized but rail, vastly less expensive to the taxpayer, should be left to the private sector.

[jzquince69]

I completely agree with you. It's not a far left concept to use the fed to build HSR. The US is way behind other countries ala public transportation. Take Orlando currently...compare it to a typical European or Asian city with public transportation. It sucks in comparison bc its like a no man's land. Rail ties everything in. If the Fed pays millions or more to clean up the Everglades, they can spend the same money on a project that will create jobs and attract companies and investment. The Fed ultimately benefits in the long run with new taxes paid. It's not a leftist argument.

[skyscraperhighrise]

Originally Posted by SkyDiveJunkee

I've yet to find a convincing argument as to why expensive, unsustainable roads should be government subsidized but rail, vastly less expensive to the taxpayer, should be left to the private sector.

Because we're better off, the private sector does better than our own government.

[xerxesjc28]

Tell that to US private health care system when compared to "socialize" health care in every single other rich country on Earth.

[Bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by skyscraperhighrise

Because we're better off, the private sector does better than our own government.

So why aren't there private Interstate highways? Or major International airports & sea ports? Why do you pick & choose which infrastructure projects the Government gets to fund? Your arguements make no sense.

[TampaMike]

This still isn't HSR that would had been funded by federal money and NO FL. taxpayer money, it's simple passenger rail. 110 mph between Orlando and Miami, 3 hour trip. Takes 5 hours and 20 minutes according to Amtrak to me to get to Miami from Tampa, and $39 for the trip. So this isn't much more than another Amtrak. So honestly, I'm not impressed. We'll likely not get the stations that were planned with the HSR plan and I doubt businesses will be lured by this.

[skyscraperhighrise]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

This still isn't HSR that would had been funded by federal money and NO FL. taxpayer money, it's simple passenger rail. 110 mph between Orlando and Miami, 3 hour trip. Takes 5 hours and 20 minutes according to Amtrak to me to get to Miami from Tampa, and $39 for the trip. So this isn't much more than another Amtrak. So honestly, I'm not impressed. We'll likely not get the stations that were planned with the HSR plan and I doubt businesses will be lured by this.

But at least the taxpayers will be not spent by this.
it's time for the free market aka free from the government to function.

[TampaMike]

You can't come up with one argument on why government is fine spending tax money on ports and highways but not on HSR, so I really don't care what you have to repeat yourself on.

I'm fine with my tax money being spent on HSR, something I would use in the future to get to Orlando or take to Washington DC once a national network is developed. So please, use my tax money to make traveling faster, cheaper, and less stressful for me.

BTW, just found out that FECI parent company, Florida East Coadt Railway, donated to the campaign to appeal the bullet train in 2004.

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

This still isn't HSR that would had been funded by federal money and NO FL. taxpayer money, it's simple passenger rail. 110 mph between Orlando and Miami, 3 hour trip. Takes 5 hours and 20 minutes according to Amtrak to me to get to Miami from Tampa, and $39 for the trip. So this isn't much more than another Amtrak. So honestly, I'm not impressed. We'll likely not get the stations that were planned with the HSR plan and I doubt businesses will be lured by this.

I'm actually more impressed by the FEC plan. It connects two major markets with a serious of populated coastal metro areas with trains running on an hourly basis. In addition, the rail system actually penetrates the downtown of its cities, which is a critical element of good passenger rail.

I never believed the HSR plan was a good one in the way that it was being implemented. Plus, the cost to construct it was high because it was a HSR train in a corridor more conductive to commuter rail or corridor rail service. The only thing it had going for it is that it could have been built without federal money and when it failed, it would have been converted into what FEC is currently proposing.

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

You can't come up with one argument on why government is fine spending tax money on ports and highways but not on HSR, so I really don't care what you have to repeat yourself on.

I'm fine with my tax money being spent on HSR, something I would use in the future to get to Orlando or take to Washington DC once a national network is developed. So please, use my tax money to make traveling faster, cheaper, and less stressful for me.

BTW, just found out that FECI parent company, Florida East Coadt Railway, donated to the campaign to appeal the bullet train in 2004.

FECI is the parent company of FEC and Flagler Development. FECI was acquired by Fortress Investment Group after 2004 and their priorities have since changed.

[skyscraperhighrise]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

I'm actually more impressed by the FEC plan. It connects two major markets with a serious of populated coastal metro areas with trains running on an hourly basis. In addition, the rail system actually penetrates the downtown of its cities, which is a critical element of good passenger rail.

I never believed the HSR plan was a good one in the way that it was being implemented. Plus, the cost to construct it was high because it was a HSR train in a corridor more conductive to commuter rail or corridor rail service. The only thing it had going for it is that it could have been built without federal money and when it failed, it would have been converted into what FEC is currently proposing.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[xerxesjc28]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

This still isn't HSR that would had been funded by federal money and NO FL. taxpayer money, it's simple passenger rail. 110 mph between Orlando and Miami, 3 hour trip. Takes 5 hours and 20 minutes according to Amtrak to me to get to Miami from Tampa, and $39 for the trip. So this isn't much more than another Amtrak. So honestly, I'm not impressed. We'll likely not get the stations that were planned with the HSR plan and I doubt businesses will be lured by this.

3 hours between Miami and Orlando (If I read that right?) is really sweet. I would not underestimate the impact this improvement in speed and service (more trains throughout the day) would have on increased use. Just think of all the schools that have trips from Miami to Orlando every year to go to the theme parks and how much this could help just them in getting from point A to point B fast and easy.

I just hope the price won't be too high and that there will be good transit service (of any kind) on the Orlando end to get people to where they want to go.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by xerxesjc28

3 hours between Miami and Orlando (If I read that right?) is really sweet.

I've actually drive it in that time, but I wouldn't advise everybody to do that.

[HeartofFlorida]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

I've actually drive it in that time, but I wouldn't advise everybody to do that.

Averaging 80-85 isn't bad.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

According the the Orlando Sentinel, FEC hasn't met with OIA officials regarding the train station, which presumably would run down the Beachline median and into the new South Terminal of OIA (still in the very early planning phase) and then onto I-Drive and Disney (?).

Why would FEC announce their plans without first meeting with OIA officials? One possibility: This train will not go to OIA but will instead link up with SunRail and onto downtown Orlando, or out to the attractions.

[jzquince69]

yeah, but isn't Sunrail supposed to go to OIA in Phase II?

Also, the other possibility is that the FEC people don't have their act together, or, they assume that OIA is a foregone conclusion.

[Valyekrin]

Airport puzzled about Orlando to Miami train proposal
1:19 p.m. EST, April 3, 2012|By Dan Tracy, Orlando Sentinel

Orlando International Airport officials have long expected a train to chug onto the property, but not as soon as a Coral Gables real estate company is proposing.

Florida Real Estate Industries Inc. has announced tentative plans to build a $1 billion train from Miami to Orlando by 2014. None of its four stops have been pinpointed, but OIA would seem the most logical terminus in Central Florida.


That lack of specifics is somewhat unsettling for OIA administrators because right now they have no idea how the privately financed train would hook up with the airport.

"A lot of variables have to be put into the equation," said director Phil Brown, who has yet to speak with anyone associated with the train project, dubbed All Aboard Florida.

For decades, OIA officials have planned for a train connection, but in a new terminal that would be built a mile south of the existing one.

Likely to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, that terminal first must be approved by the major airlines using OIA. Preliminary discussions could be started later this year, but no timetable is expected soon.

The biggest driver for a new terminal would be passenger counts, Brown said. OIA is at 35 million now and, experts say, the existing terminal starts to become too crowded at between 40 million and 50 million passengers. The upper end of that estimate might not occur until 2023.

OIA is the most logical destination for the train for two reasons:

•It provides a large, potential pool of train riders, especially those who might be willing to take it to Port Canaveral for cruises.

•Getting to densely developed downtown Orlando would be difficult and expensive. The ill-fated, high-speed train from Tampa went to OIA in part because the Interstate 4 corridor had no room downtown. Gov. Rick Scott killed that project, saying it would be a waste of money.

Train spokeswoman Christine Barney said studies about to be launched would determine the fate of the train, as well as where any stops would be. "It is still very early in the due diligence process and too premature to discuss details," she said.

State officials have talked briefly with All Aboard Florida, backed by a real estate company called Florida East Coast Industries. The Florida Department of Transportation wants to learn more, said spokesman Dick Kane.

FECI could ask the state to run a rail line in the median of the BeachLine Expressway that it owns with Metro Orlando's main road-building agency. The BeachLine, which is next to OIA, could link to a single-track freight line between Miami and Jacksonville owned by an affiliate of FECI, Florida East Coast Railway.


FECI's proposal to spend exclusively private funds on a mass-transit system is rare. Transportation projects almost always are heavily underwritten by government.

Robert Poole, a transportation expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said he is "skeptical" FECI can deliver. He speculated that the company might try to offset its expenses with real estate development around the system. But even then, Poole said, "it's still uphill from a business standpoint."

FECI, which also does business as Flagler, owns property throughout Florida and, according to the South Florida Business Journal, earlier this year had everything up for sale. That plan has fallen through, the paper said, but some Central Florida real estate brokers think a deal might be in place to sell SouthPark Center in south Orange County near John Young Parkway and Sand Lake Road.

That sale could generate more than $100 million that could go toward the train. An FECI spokeswoman could not comment on any possible real-estate transactions.

dltracy@tribune.com or 407-420-5444.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-train-project

Interesting.

[jzquince69]

I spoke to a colleague who showed me actual study area for the route after it hits southern Brevard. it is alive and well.