Elected mayors - the right answer?

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Didn't Pickles make it very clear that a part of the Tories localism policy they were after maps at the lowest level possible and met county Mayors were certainly not part of that agenda.

FWIW I suspect the general population of greater Manchester would be less than enthusiastic about Greater Manchester mayor.

Agreed that at the moment, in the midst of a recession, that the GM citizenry would probably not so concerned about the democratic deficit.

This is not because the fine people of Poolstock or Fishpool prefer bread and circuses than Liberty, it's because as we speak the presence of GM is not seen as central to the overall governance of the city.

I would contend that within a decade this will cease to be the case and we will debating earnestly how the GM authority can be directly held to account.

[Atlantean7001]

I would rather have a Greater Manchester mayor rather than one mayor for each city and no further representation (beyond Metropolitan Borough Councils) for the conurbation's eight other boroughs.

The vitality of Manchester and Salford city centres go beyond having power concentrated in the two cities. It is also its travel to work area (Cheshire stockbroker belt and the High Peak for example), plus other major centres (Ashton, Oldham, Stockport, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Wigan, Altrincham) which are analogous to the health of the conurbation as a whole.

[js1000]

Originally Posted by Meadows

I think that, for better or worse, Manchester needs a figurehead. A Bloomberg or a BoJo.

Sure these figures aren't flawless, but they give people someone to look at when something is going right or wrong and someone to hold the council to account.

My only issue is that we'd be sat at a cabinet table with a bunch of 2nd rate cities (Wakefield? Doncaster? Come on.)

I'm thinking exactly the same thing as theoretically that could happen. A mayoral cabinet meeting with the core cities of Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and Nottingham that's fine.

But Newcastle, Coventry, Wakefield, Doncaster, Bradford and Salford aren't in the same league size wise and in economic terms. It just seems an eclectic mix of cities which just hasn't been thought through properly. These mayoral cabinet meetings would be a waste of time if there was a two-tier mayor system. Also, I'd hate to think that the Manchester mayor could disagree with the Salford mayor on certain issue(s). That could be embarrassing.

[golden66]

Barcelona is in Spain, fact.
Manchester is not Salford,fact.
The Trafford Centre is not in Manchester,fact.
I am noticing more and more media output advertised as Salford only. Clearly they realise it is technically not Manchester.
I see Peel built the Trafford Centre west of Salford. Clearly built into their Atlantic
Gateway programme aimed at economic resurgence west of Salford.

js1000, the 2nd city campaign was just media hype because at the time the media was based in Manchester. Media is a business it was just self advertising.

Salford's old docks declined before Peel had the vision to fully utilise them. During this time Salford lost out to Manchester in terms of investment. In the future the regenerated old docks will attract more investment to the detriment of Manchester because Manchester hasn't these assets.

The potential of the Atlantic Gateway on Liverpool's development is on a huge scale when compared to Salford. However, Salford shows what can be done on such a small scale and in a short space of time.

It's true that The Liverpool Waters(LW) development still awaits Eric Pickles approval in June but the city is unanimously for it.

Just to enlighten you js1000, the first phase will start in the near future as the economy picks up. When complete , after 30 years, it will be 18 times bigger than Liverpool One. The Superport,Biocampus, 2nd cruise turnaround and Wirral Waters will also be built during this time.

I complement Manchester on taking advantage of the lack of economic vision ,over the past few decades, in Salford and especially Liverpool. Manchester has clearly economically benefited from the inability of these cities to rediscover a new direction. This position is now clearly changing and Manchester needs to accept that it will become a peripheral player to this westward economic power shift.

[VoldemortBlack]

Yes, you're right. Salford and Manchester are completely different places. Infact I, a Salfordian myself, have never even heard of Manchester. What is this "town" place that people speak of? I have no idea!

Darling, sweetie, Liverpool isn't all you make it out to be. It's in the facts. It looks pretty, yes. It brings in tourists, yes (but not as much as Manchester does), does it have a high average income? No. High GDP? No. Can it be able to fill up a development the size of Liverpool waters? Definitely not.

Oh and, the Trafford Centre is in Trafford, not Salford. Make sure you get your boundaries correct before waffling shit about them xxx

[Isaac Newell]

Salford is synonymous with Manchester, everyone knows that and those that don't will be constantly reminded by the BBC's presence there. Parliamentary reporters always report from Westminster, synonymous with London.

It doesn't matter about boundaries as all boundaries are blurred and subject to opinion, Manchester United don't play in Manchester, Barcelona Airport isn't in Barcelona.

As for Economic power, that will always drift south eastward.

[LNGCats]

Exactly.

The goings on down the road has very little negative effect (although possibly very positive if the economy ever picked up in any meaningful manner).

The reality is companies tend to leave Manchester to go London and not other regional cities.

[Isaac Newell]

What's good for Liverpool is good for Manchester, especially when the railway becomes electrified. Liverpool Airport should see some more growth and if that means more cheap flights for Mancunians, bring it on.

[LNGCats]

Exactly.

This whole 'rivalry' between cities is crap.

If the economy of northern cities pick up then it is mutually beneficial.

The idea that city X doing well and generating more and more wealth is bad for city Y is laughable.

[aek-94]

Originally Posted by golden66

Just to enlighten you js1000, the first phase will start in the near future as the economy picks up. When complete , after 30 years, it will be 18 times bigger than Liverpool One. The Superport,Biocampus, 2nd cruise turnaround and Wirral Waters will also be built during this time.

You're suggesting that developments like Salford Quays and the Trafford Centre have nothing to do with Manchester, because they're outside the Manchester CC administrative area and in the boroughs of Salford and Trafford respectively. However Wirral Waters and to a lesser extent the Superport are both outside Liverpool CC's area and in the boroughs of Wirral and Sefton respectively, yet have everything to do with Liverpool... Surely that's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

[WatcherZero]

His historys a bit off too, the decline of the ship canal was decades before Peel bought it.

[LNGCats]

Sale (Trafford) Sharks are to move from Edgley Park (Stockport) to Salford Reds stadium.

Local authorities in Greater Manchester really have very little significance.

[iheartthenew]

@Golden66:

You're a proper loon! Your posts gave me a good chuckle over my lunch. I don't know whether you are as seriously deluded as you come across or you are just have a good wind up with us all!

[js1000]

Originally Posted by golden66

Barcelona is in Spain, fact.
Manchester is not Salford,fact.
The Trafford Centre is not in Manchester,fact.
I am noticing more and more media output advertised as Salford only. Clearly they realise it is technically not Manchester.
I see Peel built the Trafford Centre west of Salford. Clearly built into their Atlantic
Gateway programme aimed at economic resurgence west of Salford.

js1000, the 2nd city campaign was just media hype because at the time the media was based in Manchester. Media is a business it was just self advertising.

Salford's old docks declined before Peel had the vision to fully utilise them. During this time Salford lost out to Manchester in terms of investment. In the future the regenerated old docks will attract more investment to the detriment of Manchester because Manchester hasn't these assets.

The potential of the Atlantic Gateway on Liverpool's development is on a huge scale when compared to Salford. However, Salford shows what can be done on such a small scale and in a short space of time.

It's true that The Liverpool Waters(LW) development still awaits Eric Pickles approval in June but the city is unanimously for it.

Just to enlighten you js1000, the first phase will start in the near future as the economy picks up. When complete , after 30 years, it will be 18 times bigger than Liverpool One. The Superport,Biocampus, 2nd cruise turnaround and Wirral Waters will also be built during this time.

I complement Manchester on taking advantage of the lack of economic vision ,over the past few decades, in Salford and especially Liverpool. Manchester has clearly economically benefited from the inability of these cities to rediscover a new direction. This position is now clearly changing and Manchester needs to accept that it will become a peripheral player to this westward economic power shift.

I feel I should give a knock on your head to get rid of your Liverpool-tinted glasses and come back down to planet earth. I think Manchester being a "peripharal player" to Liverpool and Salford was your funniest comment this time. At this moment in time, Liverpool has a far smaller economy and lower population than Manchester. The idea of building a port and a vanity skyscraper with copious office space (which will not be fulled by the way) will make little difference to that.

Like I say, I am a Mancunian but support Atlantic Gateway. I wouldn't support it if I felt it would damage Manchester's economy, would I? Manchester City Council don't feel the need to get in bed with Peel either. Neither do they feel they should get taxpayers money to upset other cities such as Southampton. A sign of strength and belief going into the future. Manchester will continue to develop steadily which I'd prefer against a vanity project, funded by a billionaire which has a whiff of "build it and they'll come".

[golden66]

aek-94, never said the Superport or Wirral Waters was in Liverpool. I was just pointing out that these developments will shift economic development to the west of our region.

Trafford Centre, Salford Quays and the future Port Salford just show how Peel are looking westward away from Manchester, even when they were investing in the Manchester City Region.

Isaac Newell and LNGCats, no in our region economic power will shift westwards. You are out of touch. For a start, do some research in Chinese investment in the Atlantic Gateway.

VoldermortBlack, I'm talking about the Liverpool City Region over the next 30 years not right now. Never said Trafford Centre was in Salford.

Read this article(Liverpool Daily Post,18th March 2010), giving quotes from Lindsey Ashworth, Peels Development Director.

Mr Ashworth said Peel had recognised Liverpool's potential for growth is enormous.

It owns Mersey Docks and Harbour Company, which controls huge swathes of land on the banks of the Mersey, and Liverpool John Lennon Airport. “Peel recognised a few years ago the massive potential for growth in the North West as a bipolar region with more than one urban centre – Manchester and Liverpool,” he said.

“They have potential individually, but more so if they work together.
He said the company had started investing in Manchester 20 years ago but that Liverpool was the place that would see the majority of the £50bn planned as part of its Ocean Gateway plan to regenerate the Manchester Ship Canal corridor and the Mersey.

“Peel's belief is Liverpool is the place of the future.”

“Next year construction is likely to start on the new post-Panamax dock at the Port of Liverpool.“

"Liverpool has always had the natural assets and now it is using those to move forward in a dynamic way.”

He said Liverpool has an “opportunity to grasp investment on a scale that it has never seen before”.

“It is my view that Manchester has almost exhausted itself in room for economic expansion.”

[VoldemortBlack]

North West as a bipolar region with more than one urban centre – Manchester and Liverpool,” he said.

“They have potential individually, but more so if they work together."

Precisely.

Liverpool needs Manchester, and Manchester needs Liverpool (well, sort of)

[Meadows]

Originally Posted by golden66

Trafford Centre,Salford Quays and the future Port Salford just show how Peel are looking westward away from Manchester.

what, like a 10 minute walk further west?

[js1000]

Of course they would say that. The only reason they think Manchester has "exhausted themselves for economic expansion" is because there is very little cheap land in Manchester, which is what Peel thrive on redeveloping where the margins are greater. Same can't be said of land by Manchester Ship Canal, Salford or in Liverpool. And it is well known MCC and Bernstein are not keen on Peel, even though they proclaim they will make the North West the most economically sustainable region in the UK.

[LNGCats]

All very strange.

The Sharp project, the Sports City project, the Oxford Rd corridor, Central Spine, NOMA... are all large schemes enhancing the economy of the Manchester area.

All over the shop, certainly not moving west, east or any particular direction.

Fact is the oppurtunity for decent employment in the Manchester area can only be improved by as many such developments as possible. Be is Port Salford, Airport city or whatever it's all good news for the local economy.

FWIW - saw the other day, Liverpool Waters is 5m sq ft to be delivered over 40 years.

Spinningfields is 4m sp ft, and delivered in about 5 years.

Very telling about where the current demand for office space is.

I do get the impression golden needs to try looking a little further than Peel, just because they are the only company that builds office space in Liverpool it doesn't mean cities with much higher demand for office space don't get other developers in building office blocks.

[js1000]

Originally Posted by Meadows

what, like a 10 minute walk further west?

So true. Golden666 fails to understand Trafford and Salford (more so) are actually closer to Manchester City Centre than many of Manchester's districts such as Didsbury, Withington, Gorton etcetra.

I'll wager a bet on here Manchester, Salford and Trafford will be subsumed into one city area anyway.