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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:01 PM   #81
piotr71
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
No you can't. Not in western Europe anyway. Not even in Belgium. This is a very Polish road. And stating an opinion is not trolling.
You said that, I am saying yes, you can find such or even worse roads in Western Europe. I showed you a picture of Belgian road as an example and you answered that this damaged road is ok, but damaged...

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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
That is actually one of the better quality of roads to be found in Belgium. Unfortunately it has been damaged by lorries. Not an uncommon sight in Belgium, and Belgium has the worst quality of roads in western Europe.
....then you wrote that even worse roads can be found in Belgium. Are they still better than the Polish example?

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However:

This is apparently in Poland. You can't find a road like that anywhere in Belgium. I have driven on a lot of roads like that in Poland. Very uncomfortable driving!
Of course, the answer is yes. No such poor roads in Western Europe!

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Stop defending your country so much. Poland is a fine country, with lovely city's, villages and countryside. Just accept the problem...
It's not matter of defending or attacking any country. It just a try to make the subject unambiguous. I do not care about cities and villages in this thread. However, travelling here and there I may have grown my own opinion about roads' quality in certain countries, and this opinion may differ to yours. Understanding well Polish geopolitical location and knowing which part of Europe is less developed I still can't agree for This:
Quote:
Not in western Europe anyway.
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The Belgian road is wider, it has better road markings and could even be lit at night. The ruts alone don't put both roads on the same level.
Is not the landscape nicer by the Belgian road, as well?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:20 PM   #82
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The WEF assessed the entire road networks of countries. Not just motorways.
The WEF "assessed" them by simply asking the countries' inhabitants what they thought of their roads.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Verso

The WEF "assessed" them by simply asking the countries' inhabitants what they thought of their roads.
And as a lot of locals think their roads are the best in the world (Poles, Belgians), the outcome of this assessment is fully accurate, I'm sure...
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:53 PM   #84
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The WEF "assessed" them by simply asking the countries' inhabitants what they thought of their roads.
Who knows its roads better than the people who use it.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:54 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The WEF assessed the entire road networks of countries. Not just motorways.
Better. Italian non-motorway roads are quite bad.

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
The WEF "assessed" them by simply asking the countries' inhabitants what they thought of their roads.
If this is true, it's quite ridiculous. Like when they assess the level of corruption in a country. It's not done doing math, it's just the level of "perceived corruption". So if they ask me, I'll answer "they're all thieves", so level of perceived corruption is maximum

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Who knows its roads better than the people who use it.
People cannot be objective on such things, often because they did not travel and have no comparison. Besides, this can be used also as a political statement: "roads in this country are shit" does not mean they they all are bad, it means that who said that is against the government.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:13 PM   #86
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The WEF "assessed" them by simply asking the countries' inhabitants what they thought of their roads.
Hopefully you will find some time to become familiar with the Executive Opinion Survey methodology of the World Competitiveness Report. The methodology is explained in the Chapter 1.3 of the report. Warning: the statistical methods explained in that chapter are non-trivial.

The purpose of the report is not to provide with a ranking based on the absolute truth, for obvious reasons. Instead, it is an outstanding collection of information to use for business location selections, for example. The rankings by individual indicators do not make much sense, but rankings by each of the twelve consolidated pillars do.

There is not such thing as a globally recognized road infrastructure ranking method by country. A well-prepared survey gives some hints, but of course you are free to disagree on the results.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:30 PM   #87
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Well, I skimmed through the text and read the conclusion, but in any case, I quite disagree with the ranking. Of course they need some measurement for countries' infrastructure.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 10:13 AM   #88
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Well, I skimmed through the text and read the conclusion, but in any case, I quite disagree with the ranking. Of course they need some measurement for countries' infrastructure.
Still no smoke without fire. The ranking is about statistics, and to make conclusions you have to understand how the statistics work.

For example, for the road network, the survey gives Serbia and Poland a score of 2.7 and 2.6 in the scale of 1 to 7, and the respective ranks 122 and 124 among 144 countries.

Based on this data, and the statistical significance, you cannot say whether Serbia has a better road network than Poland or not.

However, you can rather safely say that both Serbia and Poland have a lousy road network compared to all west Europe countries except Norway.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #89
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This approach of assessing roads does not make sense because it does not include many other very important aspects of the system. If we have identified all the necessary criteria this would be a very difficult task even for professionals.
Individual opinions are based on stereotypes and the personal perceptions of the some parts of the roads in some countries. It has nothing to do with the actual value of the road system.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #90
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Perhaps the list is based on quality, not quantity.
it is definitely not based neither on quality. i mean, Italy behind Croatia... come on! that's silly!
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Old November 25th, 2012, 04:16 AM   #91
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...........
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:29 AM   #92
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And as a lot of locals think their roads are the best in the world (Poles, Belgians), the outcome of this assessment is fully accurate, I'm sure...
You know nothing. We do know our road system is bad. Moreover, we complain too much as situation is getting better year after year.

And our villages and towns aren't that lovely thanks to our trashy taste expressed in space
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Old November 26th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #93
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Improving the condition of national roads in Poland, within 10 years. I do not know whether it is to brag about.



Green - good, Red - bad, Yellow - average.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #94
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Maybe, but you cannot compare 145 km of network against 6600, or more. Statistics are useful, but they must be made with a grain of salt.
Thailand has far more than 145km of motorway/freeway standard road.
Most of the roads of motorway/freeway are not classified as such (I think the motorway classification is limited to tollways in Thailand). You could boost the number of kms to 1000+ of motorway/freeways using the same classification as Italy
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Still no smoke without fire. The ranking is about statistics, and to make conclusions you have to understand how the statistics work.

For example, for the road network, the survey gives Serbia and Poland a score of 2.7 and 2.6 in the scale of 1 to 7, and the respective ranks 122 and 124 among 144 countries.

Based on this data, and the statistical significance, you cannot say whether Serbia has a better road network than Poland or not.

However, you can rather safely say that both Serbia and Poland have a lousy road network compared to all west Europe countries except Norway.
Its nonesense, I have driven in both countries and I can tell you that the roads in PL are by far better than in SRB. Serbian motorways are full of potholes with people doing 50kmph on their Zastava cars.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:45 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
Thailand has far more than 145km of motorway/freeway standard road.
Most of the roads of motorway/freeway are not classified as such (I think the motorway classification is limited to tollways in Thailand). You could boost the number of kms to 1000+ of motorway/freeways using the same classification as Italy
If we consider non-tolled freeways in Italy, we easily reach 15 thousand km. Still not possible to compare 1000 vs 15,000.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #97
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And as a lot of locals think their roads are the best in the world (Poles, Belgians), the outcome of this assessment is fully accurate, I'm sure...
Sorry mate, but most Poles thinks that their roads are the worst in the world... just because in Germany roads used to be better... That is why this WEF report is so useless... It is like getting some lost island somewhere with two little countries, where one has a harden road and the second one only some path through the forest... Obviously residents of the first one would tell their roads are fantastic... WEF took that kind of countries and compared it without any context with developed countries public opinions... How stupid is that?
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #98
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If we consider non-tolled freeways in Italy, we easily reach 15 thousand km.
Isn't it more like 10,000 km?
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #99
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Isn't it more like 10,000 km?
Sadly I can't find any info about the superstrade network length, but I got the feeling there are much more of 3000 km of them. I can be wrong, though.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #100
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Quality of roads in Brazil

Green - excellent

Red - very bad

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