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Old April 10th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #1
Blackraven
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Arguments against our uber-slow speed limit of 100 kph/62 mph (especially in Philippine setting)

I feel like I want to raise a certain issue that has been bugging me for years:

Btw, it is sort of or kind of related to a thread that arriaca posted a while ago:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1503109

5th of April, 2012 (Holy Thursday/Maundy Thursday)
We decided to go on a road trip down south of Metro Manila for the holy week holidays that we celebrate. Now, my dad who was behind the wheel, thought that there would be traffic so he decided to use the Skyway (which is a limited-access roadway that we have here):



Alas, when we reached the toll booth, a traffic enforcer stopped us and said that the speed gun caught us doing 114 km/h (70 in miles per hour). My dad was like "WTF" and argued that our speed was not that far from the national speed limit of 100 km/h (62 mph). In fact, my dad raised that in other countries, the speed limits are not as 'ABSURDLY LOW' as what we have here. And even then, there would at least be a tolerance of 15% or so.

To cut the long story short, my dad did not want to have his driver's license confiscated by the traffic enforcers (because my dad is going on a business trip to America the following week and needs it over there). In the end, the jackass enforcers grabbed a wrench and forcefully removed the front license plate of our vehicle.

WTF? AFAIK, that's illegal here. The Supreme Court ruled that license plates are private property. Talk about unconstitutional. Point is, if they want to write a violation ticket, that's fine. But they CANNOT confiscate drivers license or vehicle plate.

--------

What do guys think?

Personally there are a lot of wrong things going on around here:

1) Uber-slow speed limit for a virtually straight (>99%) limited access roadway
Seriously, if you look at other countries like in Europe, they have speed limits ranging from 110, 130 (like Denmark or France) up to no speed limit (Autobahn Germany). Also, it looks like they just mandatorily enforced that 100 km/h even on dry road conditions and even when there are ZERO cars in front of you. In fact, an uber-slow speed limit like 100 km/h is a safety hazard. More drivers will fall asleep or lose concentration and in some cases, increases incidence of tailgating (aka cars staying too close each other). Then again our traffic enforcers don't give a rats ass about safety, they only give a shit about bribes and kickbacks.


2) ZERO TOLERANCE OR ALLOWANCE
The fact that we were caught at 114 km/h shows how illogical the traffic enforcers are. Heck, I've heard real claims from other motorists who were caught even at just 102 km/h or even 101 km/h. PUTANGINANG PAKING SHIT NA IYAN!!! It really shows that the enforcers are not after safety BUT MONEY


3) No right to confiscate license
Those people are not policemen. They are not granted by Philippine law any authority to confiscate drivers license


4) No authority to confiscate vehicle license/registration plate
They go against a ruling by our Supreme Court (the highest court in our country). Double whammy

IMHO, before the Land Transportation Office and DOTC thinks of imposing unsafe and absurdly low speed limits, why don't they first:
-rid corruption of government agencies
-get rid of REAL safety hazards like drivers moving at <60 km/h in the inner most lanes
-eliminate or lessen colorum or illegal vehicles
-lessen bribes and fixers (i.e. seriously, people can just bribe them to skip taking a drivers exam)
-ban people who can't drive properly off the roads

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY

-take notes and lessons from other countries (on why they do not enforce an unsafe speed limit of 100 kph/62 mph)

Seriously, our traffic enforcers and the regulatory agencies fail at the most basic of logic and reason and even simple common sense. In fact, a lot of local motorists despise their utter ignorance as well as corruption. Sadly, I don't know if something can be done to stop this madness going on here
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Old April 10th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #2
CarltonHill
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our traffic enforcers doesn't listen/care much except if you'll give them "money" or "suhol" (in filipino), just to save your driver's license / license plate from being confiscated... we also experienced being "caught as they say", but in a different violation. in MIA Road where they said that we passed what we should not... Just to settle, my father (who was driving that time) said to the enforcer that we are a "relative" of an "official" in that city, then they spared us.... (but the truth is we're not)

on the other hand, about speed limit:

I also noticed the same thing in Commonwealth Avenue. It's 10-18-lane road (5-9 lanes each)..then there's a bill approved to set the speed limit to 60km/h, which is I think, "quite slow".... I always feel slightly uncomftable with 60km/h...

The reasons of slight traffic in a "10-18-lane" Commonwealth Avenue are the:
-drivers who lacks discipline (of buses/jeepneys)
-a lot of pedestrians who also lacks discipline
-a lot of stupid public market vendors (2 public markets) - who use the sidewalks as part of the market
-lack of pedestrian underpass and bridges
-people who park their cars anywhere they want (especially in Litex & Commonwealth Market)

they should fix those problems first IMO.....


Commonwealth Avenue southbound (northbound partially hidden at left)


northbound, approaching commonwealth market

Last edited by CarltonHill; April 10th, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #3
ChrisZwolle
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100 km/h is a common speed limit on urban expressways and motorways in Europe and the United States. However, suspending a driver's license for doing only 14 km/h over the limit is surely not justified. In the Netherlands you get your license suspended if you do 50+ over the limit, in this particular case, 150+ km/h.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #4
xrtn2
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In Brazil the maximum is 120 Km/h but you can add 10% or 12 km/h so you can drive 132 km/h.


Today we have a full cameras(radar) ridiculous limit speed is 50 km/h.

Last edited by xrtn2; April 10th, 2012 at 04:15 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #5
Stahlsturm
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In Germany you would get your licence suspended for 1 month for 41 kmh over the posted speed limit when outside city limits. 15 kmh over would be a 15 EUR fine if the would bother flashing you at all.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #6
Blackraven
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All of you raise very good points. Hence why I'm flabbergasted why there is a need to uphold such a backward approach when in majority of countries and territories, they would not stoop to such lows like what he do here.

This type of "by-the-book" approach is infuriating because it is done for the wrong reasons. Not about safety but how much bribe money your willing to slip in that enforcers pocket to let you pass.

With that said: If accidents are a problem, then why not:
-remove colorum and improperly-maintained vehicles from the roads
-eliminate corruption and the fixers (yes there are still people here who pay them so they can skip the entire LTO driving test)
-fix the roads
-do something about pedestrians who illegally cross the streets (i.e. jaywalking) when an overpass or underpass is available/present

oh and

-take notes from other countries and territories on why their speed limit for fully-straight roads is beyond 100 km/h (and even if it's 100 km/h, there is allowance/tolerance up to additional 10 mph or say 20 kph)

In fact, I raised this in another forum and here's what one poster said:
Quote:
when the 100kph was mandated by law during marcos time, hindi pa ganun ka advance and safe vehicles...
a lot has changed since the speed limit was enacted in terms on engine power/safety and over all vehicle improvement..

Other countries/territories
autobahn.... 130 kilometres per hour
Interstate Highway System U.S.... 129 km/h speed limit

Philippines
macapagal...60kph
commonwealth...60kph
Major fail

Btw, I'm not against a speed limit. What I'm against is a ridiculously low speed limit that is out of touch with current reality......as well as the enforcement approach (in that they make 10-20 km/h already a violation......or depending on the officer/enforcer, even just excess of 1 km/h or 2 km/h = fine already + either confiscation of drivers license or confiscation of vehicle license/number registration plate )

P.S.
@ChrisZwolle

Since you are road traffic researcher (I presume), I think you are familiar with the negative consequences of an extremely low speed limit as well as to what a "true" speed limit should really be.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 07:56 PM   #7
ChrisZwolle
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In my opinion, 100 km/h on an elevated skyway across a dense urban area is not unreasonable at all. It would've been 60-80 km/h in Japan for instance.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #8
Blackraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In my opinion, 100 km/h on an elevated skyway across a dense urban area is not unreasonable at all. It would've been 60-80 km/h in Japan for instance.
It would've been okay (in some cases) but with that 100 km/h speed limit was implemented during Martial Law era here in the Philippines when at that time vehicles were still not as advanced compared to what we have now.

Oh and you have a point about Japan. But even then, there are also people who choose go past that national maximum. In fact, I know most JDM cars there have a 180 km/h ECU limiter and 180 km/h is really more than enough there. Too fast is not advisable but too slow is dangerous. Speed is relative...



-------
Anyways, when my dad gets back from America next month, I guess he's to go get his front license plate back (@CarltonHill he has to claim it at LTO HQ in East Avenue, Quezon City)
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Old April 10th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #9
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OMG 14km/h more on expressway .

In Poland you have to double the speed limit to have your licence suspended. Even if drive two times faser the police can but don't have to take your licence.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 04:11 AM   #10
FM 2258
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Texas seems to be going in the right direction with their speed limits. In Austin they just raised the speed limit to 70mph up from 60-65 to near downtown, downtown was raised from 55-60. Out of town they're bringing the default speed limit to 75mph after an "engineering study" Plus out in west Texas and on one of the new tollways outside of Austin the speed limit is 80mph.
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Old April 11th, 2012, 06:46 AM   #11
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Speed Limit used to be 55mph on the PA turnpike. It was asinine. They bumped it up to 65, but I still feel thats too slow
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Old April 16th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #12
Blackraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Texas seems to be going in the right direction with their speed limits. In Austin they just raised the speed limit to 70mph up from 60-65 to near downtown, downtown was raised from 55-60. Out of town they're bringing the default speed limit to 75mph after an "engineering study" Plus out in west Texas and on one of the new tollways outside of Austin the speed limit is 80mph.
It seems the opposite is going on in here: It looks like where I'm from, there less of engineering studies.......but more on "studies by certain authorities on how to extort from honest motorists".

Hayzz.....

Anyways, it looks like we have no choice but to re-claim our confiscated front license plate.....and probably pay any relevant fines.

Although personally I still believe that those traffic enforcers are motivated not primarily on safety but on bribe money.
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