HS2 to Liverpool & Mcr - Use Ship Canal

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

I dread to think what schema is driving you. Have you ever sought professional help?

Look we both know CBT does not work well with people with autism, Padesky told me at the chippie last week Irish.

She said to me" listen Heaton you need to stop those negative automatic thoughts about fishcakes."

"OK Chrissie," I retorted. " But surely they are just maladaptive Cognitions and really are just a fish flavored fried potato curio than a real fish snack."

I want to know where does all the water go?

Especially as it drains from, not to, the Irwell and Medlock.

[js1000]

This is so illogical... yet amusing at the same time.

Do you know the Ship Canal is still used? You make it sound like a swamp.

How much would filling the Ship Canal cost and would it be viable? I would say billions instead of millions.

Are you aware of the consequences? It is linked to other rivers and canals afterall.

How do you know the ship canal will never be needed in the future? We are on an island afterall and the Thames is a very handy waterborne route for London away from the congested airports and roads.

Are you aware of the heritage value of the Ship Canal? 10,000 people helped build it, it was the biggest ship canal upon opening, symbol of industrial revolution and new found wealth and ambition, bridges are listed etc.

Dwell on this for a minute - how would you like it someone said the three graces should be demolished? From what I am reading, that is what you are mindlessly saying about the Ship Canal. Ask yourself that question before you start waffling again.

And have you ever thought Peel could probably sell the land on either bank of the Ship Canal and it would probably be big enough to accomodate a HS line. Importantly, it would probably be cheaper than filling the Ship Canal!!!!!!

I find this quite pathetic if I'm honest. Bramwell, you win Skyscrapercity.com award for most deluded proposal ever posted on this forum. I'm all for debating, but this one is going over my head. Do we have mods/admins on this website?

[Tyr]

Originally Posted by George Bramwell

A meshed HSR will create large economies outside of London.

Yep. I hope so. However connecting said economies to London will help them to grow. There's a reason the south east England outside of London does so well- they have good links with London.
You can't just magic up an economy out of thin air. Economic growth comes by tapping into those economies that are already there.

Grt Manchester is bigger than Merseyside. The Wirral is one of the wealthiest parts of the UK. About No. 4.

I've never heard that before. And I would hardly be proud of that if it was the case considering Liverpool is also home to some of the poorest areas of the UK.....

Manchester, within the city limits, is small, smaller than Leicester. Biirkenhead and Wallasey are about the same size as Leicester.

Liverpool is No. 4 in city size with London, Brum and Glasgow above.

Manchester is not richer and more dynamic than Liverpool. Look at the spiralling growth of Liverpool Airport in the past 8 years.

....no. Just no.
The actual size of a city within city limits its just an organisational thing, its quite useless for dictating the actual size of a city- the actual city of London is tiny and has only 800 people IIRC living there.
The size of urban areas is the most important factor and there Liverpool comes 7th in the UK/6th in England, even with Birkenhead added it is only Newcastle it overtakes. Manchester is still far and away bigger.

I really don't think the growth of Liverpool airport matters too much...
Birmingham and Manchester are in the 70s of richest cities in the world, Leeds is in the 90s. Liverpool...doesn't even show up in the data.
Sorry, I know it hurts your civic pride but Manchester clearly is the richer, bigger, and more important city.
I'm from Durham- I have no problem admitting Durham is far from the most important city in the country. Its not even the most important in the north east. It may even struggle to be in the top 5. Its nothing shameful.

Put a large international airport in Blackpool and industry and homes will migrate around it. get it?

Put HSR between Liverpool and Manchester and the two will grow like mad.

Yes. But you're not understanding. This isn't needed.
Would it help if it was done? Yes.
Is it needed? No. Is it a good use of limited money? No.
A new railway link will help anywhere to grow- a Liverpool-Manchester high speed link isn't one of the most effective possible projects. Even sticking to Lancashire far more effective would be better local services in the area and a Manchester-Leeds link.

[George Bramwell]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

I dread to think what schema is driving you. Have you ever sought professional help?

This brainless one is always on the Manchester thread causing trouble.

[Irish Blood English Heart]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Look we both know CBT does not work well with people with autism, Padesky told me at the chippie last week Irish.

She said to me" listen Heaton you need to stop those negative automatic thoughts about fishcakes."

"OK Chrissie," I retorted. " But surely they are just maladaptive Cognitions and really are just a fish flavored fried potato curio than a real fish snack."

I want to know where does all the water go?

Especially as it drains from, not to, the Irwell and Medlock.

[George Bramwell]

Originally Posted by js1000

Do you know the Ship Canal is still used? You make it sound like a swamp.

Two small ships a week use the 31 mile Runcorn to Salford section. The canal is capable of taking 35,000 ton ships. The section is redundant. If Mcr go back to its roots as a manufacturing city needing bulk cargoes then and only then, will the canal be viable. That does not look like the case.

Are you aware of the consequences? It is linked to other rivers and canals after all.

Natural water courses can be in precast tunnels on the canal bed and infilled above for a HSR line.

Are you aware of the heritage value of the Ship Canal? 10,000 people helped build it, it was the biggest ship canal upon opening, symbol of industrial revolution and new found wealth and ambition, bridges are listed etc.

Heritage is another matter. Commercially the canal is a 31 miles redundant ditch. One thing is clear the two cities need top class HSR rail connections and the canal offers the route with minimum fuss.

If Peel could accommodate the canal and a HSR rail line on the banks then terrific, a sort of win, win.

You lack foresight, original thinking and seeing the blatantly obvious.

[George Bramwell]

Originally Posted by Tyr

Liverpool is also home to some of the poorest areas of the UK.....

LOCAL AUTHORITIES WITH HIGHEST LEVEL OF CHILD POVERTY. Liverpool is not there. 6 out of the 10 are in London, next to the financial towers of the City and Docklands. Manchester is No. 3.

1. Tower Hamlets: 52%
2. Islington: 43%
3. Manchester: 40%
4. Hackney: 39%
5. Westminster: 38%
6. Newham: 37%
7. Camden: 37%
8. Derry: 36%
9. Nottingham: 35%
10. Belfast: 35%

[George Bramwell]

As to Liverpool not having decent transport infrastructure, incorrectly viewed by some. Look at the map. The existing is impressive, but reusing what the Victorians left behind makes the transport infrastructure quite amazing. The city was laid out to take 2 million and have the footprint of Paris.


Map includes, HS3, A new rail crossing of the Mersey (that's a fourth tunnel), a Lancashire Loop, Warrington Loop, Cheshire Loop, Wirral Loop, The Football Quarter/Inner Loop line (Canada Dock Branch Line), Waterloo Cruise Liner Terminal, New Exchange Station, Docker's Brolly (both sides of the river) - bringing the city together as One City. for the centre AND for the parts.

Liverpool’s basic infrastructure is magnificent. It served a port second to just none and a population double the size.

"Liverpool’s arteries and veins, its 1938 goods and passenger transport infrastructure, were magnificent. With some foresight, and a little fortuitous neglect, the city has retained the basics of an infrastructure befitting a second city of empire. If Liverpool is to come back and stay; if the population drain is to be significantly reversed; if the city of Liverpool is to be more than a million again, the city needs it all back - and that includes the trams. It needs re-opened lines, re-opened stations, re-opened tunnels, the overhead back on the waterfront, better freight connections and ultimately another Mersey crossing. Amazingly, because most of the unused tunnels, stations, rail beds, loop lines, tracks and alignments are still there, the cost per capita would be lower than anywhere else in Britain. This is a huge advantage for Liverpool of which central government ought to be aware."

But great big lumps of the city are now cut-off from the rest - split off by motorways. Bustling streets are ‘lost’. Roads blocked. Stations and lines abandoned. But amazingly mostly still there whether by good luck or good management.

[trivran]

Quite simply, I doubt they will build HS3..a London to Glasgow via Liverpool line..or even propose it.

[ill tonkso]

Look, John, or George, whatever you are calling yourself now. You are not fooling anyone. We know who you are, and we know you derail threads, cause trouble and generally refuse to listen to reason.

[George Bramwell]

Originally Posted by trivran

Quite simply, I doubt they will build HS3..a London to Glasgow via Liverpool line..or even propose it.

That is open to speculation, but it is being talked about at high levels. However, the map does show the extensive rail infrastructure of the Liverpool area. This must put any talk of ports on the Manchester ship canal in doubt. Liverpool can shift containers easier by rail.

[js1000]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

Look, John, or George, whatever you are calling yourself now. You are not fooling anyone. We know who you are, and we know you derail threads, cause trouble and generally refuse to listen to reason.

Touche to that. A deluded Scouser intent on just winding people up. What could possibly be more irritating?

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by George Bramwell

That is open to speculation, but it is being talked about at high levels.

Julian Whittles hated heights.

No he really hated them, so it was a mystery to everyone why the internationally reknowned canal developer found himself on a balmy Saturday evening on top of Blackpool Tower.

"I can erm, see, eh, Ireland."

"No Julian, its the Isle of Man" spoke a reassuring voice from the corner.

George Wilmslow - aka the Ringo - walked into the bright April light.

He continued "Welcome everyone, Mr Whittles may i introduce Mr. Gideon Fazackerley, the famous maglev designer, this is Ethan K, leader of the Skaus Nationalist Army, to your left is Waldemar
Denyanvich, the dissident Polish billionaire and world reknown supporter of Doddy Diddyland Industries."

"Cech Mr Whittles."

Here are the explosive experts twins Tate Sugar and Lyle Sugar and finally, but not least is Lady Annabel Strawberry-Fields, head of the anticipated Merseyside colony of what today is called Manchester, but soon re named Lennonville."

Whittles gulped.

"All united in our race's final battle against the eastern Manc hordes!!"

The Ringo slammed.

"United to convert the hated Ship Canal into a truimphant Maglev line to all points east of the inevitable Liverpolitan Empire."

"Today Childwall, tomorrow Chorlton!"

Whittles winched.

[Awayo]

Originally Posted by js1000

Touche to that. A deluded Scouser intent on just winding people up. What could possibly be more irritating?

A low-IQ bigot from Manchester?

[heatonparkincakes]

"hatrad is te new luv"

It was written in cheap marker pen on a toilet door in Manchester's Royal Exchange internationally reknown theatre.

As Christopher Eccleston ascended, a self satisfied Davie Hulme descended after his latest act of artistic anarchism.

"That muh eh showed dem all, erh!" he snarled in his distinct Moston accent.

Only 16 hours remained. The giants lay still for now.

Across town, two drinks arrived. A double espresso for Special Agent Jake Monaghan - code named Irish Heart and a triple JD without ice for master spy Colonel Alistair Walter Ayo better known as the Wayo.

"We know his profile. Poorly educated and driven by fear like a rabbit in the headlights and intolerant." said Wayo.

"A cruel genetic experiment gone wrong, but aided with tremendous local knowledge from his life as a street thief in Manchester after he escaped the MKSSC project in 1999," concluded Heart.

It was a marriage of convenience. United by one sinster but unknowing enemy.

As head of the Liverpool Special Operations Bureau, he eyed his Mancunian counterpart with keen suspicion, albeit also with admiration too.

"Dont forget this man had wrestled with the infamous Hulme family before......and lived." contemplated Wayo.

Meanwhile a grunt away, Davie struggled with the radio. "Ugh calling calling Happy Monday calling, muh ugh yeah its ready boss, ugh"

At that moment Wayo grimaced. "Where is he?" and turning to Heart, cried "There is nothing more dangerous than a low IQ Mancunian bigot armed and deadly, but with what and who?"

Meanwhile high on Blackpool Tower, the Ringo smiled.

[Pablo Diablo]

Originally Posted by Malcolm of Kent

What is it about Liverpool which, err, how shall I put it?, encourages such novel ideas in its citizens?

Originally Posted by Harry

I read this phrase and then the penny dropped. You're yet another reincarnation of that preachy Liverpool bloke who keeps getting banned. Entertaining, none the less.

Originally Posted by js1000

Touche to that. A deluded Scouser intent on just winding people up. What could possibly be more irritating?

He's from Milton Keynes.

Just sayin'

[trivran]

Originally Posted by George Bramwell

That is open to speculation, but it is being talked about at high levels. However, the map does show the extensive rail infrastructure of the Liverpool area. This must put any talk of ports on the Manchester ship canal in doubt. Liverpool can shift containers easier by rail.

I call buuuullshit. But whaddaya know, you're banned.

(Love the story heaton)

[Awayo]

I really wish someone would tell (not I of course) Parkin not to give up the day job. We're all bad at some things. He needs to stop punishing himself.

[Tyr]

Some of that last stuff....
Considering the poster is a Liverpool nationalist I can't help but think that he knows this is a bad idea and he knows that doing away with the canal is showing a perfect example of horribly short term thinking. Me thinks....he knows this is a bad idea....but.... it could potentially hurt Manchester so yey!

[heatonparkincakes]

I wish that somehow the obvious talent that john, George or Ringo has could be funnelled ito something more useful than trolling web sites with grandiose schemes intended to spite Mancunians.

I did think is this a wind up. But not its too complicated on one level and not knowing enough to be so, so given the intensity of knowledge, pre occupations with certain themes and the inability to accept opposing views, I think I can be pretty certain what kind of fish we are frying here.

I imagine that every forum has someone like George. Another forum about radio has some fella called 123 or hit music who babbles on about Heart radio endlessly, oblivious to the fact that people are laughing at him.



Now back to the story........