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Old October 25th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #81
Dobbo
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If there was a new line (or lines) to be constructed - how would you set them out?

a second loop, or perhaps an end to end line?
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Old October 25th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolothos View Post
Absolutely, it would make great sense, and it would represent an integrated mass transit system for Greater Glasgow. People usually just think of our wee circle line Subway, but in reality, that's effectively just the central part of a much larger system.
Yeah, so, a few months back I hastily put this together and posted it elsewhere as an indication of the part of the rail network that is in Glasgow (or reaches places that are often effectively considered to be Glasgow):



Sticking Paisley Gilmour Street in there is a bit cheeky, but it's there for the airport. And you could make a good argument for stretching out to East Kilbride.

Regardless, the point is: we have a nice collection of rail routes around this city, and on these lines the train frequencies are pretty good.

Regarding stations, Maxwell Park was mentioned earlier. I love that station; I walked past there at the weekend:


And for something not Glasgow, Bridge of Orchy:
image hosted on flickr
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Old October 25th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
If there was a new line (or lines) to be constructed - how would you set them out?

a second loop, or perhaps an end to end line?
To invigorate the use of the subway, I don't think entire new lines need to be built. Little things would help:
  • Better integration of Buchanan Street (subway) and Queen Street (national rail. This is on the cards, so I'm cheating.)
  • Better connectivity between St Enoch (subway) and Central (national rail). Covered walkway, tunnel, whatever.
  • Similarly, better connectivity between St Enoch (subway) and Argyle Street (national rail).
  • Additional exits from St Enoch (to the St Enoch shopping centre) and from Buchanan Street (to the Buchanan Galleries shopping centre).
  • A new station at West Street on the existing line directly above the now isolated West Street subway station.
  • SPT-backed cycle schemes at stations.
  • Modification of some bus routes to terminate at subway stops. Actually hook together some of those modes of transport, and remove some of the bus routes from the city centre!

The current modernisation and future streamlined ticketing will help a lot. Extending the opening hours will help a lot.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #84
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Thanks - integration is why the London Underground is so sucessful - is there really no desire for a new line?
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #85
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Quote:
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Thanks - integration is why the London Underground is so sucessful - is there really no desire for a new line?
Desire, sure, but not much political desire. We do have a very strong infrastructure, if only we tied it together a little better.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #86
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The suburban services on national rail in Strathclyde are all very well to a certain point. But the non-systematic station spacing as well as the awkward scheduling of services leaves a lot left to be desired. The latter is certainly a result of track sharing with long distance services which is always a bit of a deficiency.

A cross city tunnel linking the rail lines terminating in Central and Queen Street would be a good addition. Such a scheme could tackle most of the shortcomings listed above. Yet, this link is as unlikely to be built as it is expansive, unfortunately.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The suburban services on national rail in Strathclyde are all very well to a certain point. But the non-systematic station spacing as well as the awkward scheduling of services leaves a lot left to be desired. The latter is certainly a result of track sharing with long distance services which is always a bit of a deficiency.

A cross city tunnel linking the rail lines terminating in Central and Queen Street would be a good addition. Such a scheme could tackle most of the shortcomings listed above.
In what way does it resolve the shortcomings? Genuine question. Not sure what you're envisioning here.

Awkward service scheduling can be tricky in some locations once you move away from the shared lines. Frequencies are reasonable in a lot of places, but not quite turn-up-and-go, which I guess is what you're getting at.

Out of interest, I took a quick look at departures to GLC or GLQ from a handful of stations around the city:
  • East: At Rutherglen I see six trains to central in the next hour, with a maximum spacing of 14 minutes.
  • East: At Bellgrove, I see six trains to queen street in the next hour, with a maximum spacing of fifteen minutes.
  • West: At Partick I see fourteen trains to central/queen street in the next hour, with a maximum spacing of 6 minutes.
  • West: Anniesland has ten trains departing to central/queen street in the next hour. Maximum of eight minute spacing.
  • West: Clydebank has four trains departing to central/queen street. Nice 15 minute cycle.
  • South: At Cathcart, there are four in the next hour, spaced 14-16 minutes apart. Mount Florida has a bonus fifth train wedged in to the cycle.
  • South: Crossmyloof also has four trains this next hour, but with an awkward 10/20/10/20 wait cycle.
  • North: Maryhill is down at two per hour, half hour spacing. But, this is an annoying line that would ideally run as a loop, but for the fact that if the train continued south from Anniesland it would be routed into queen street low-level. Would be nice if they ran a larger loop that ran both directions round Maryhill - Partick - Queen Street LL - High Street - Duke Street - Springburn - Ashfield (calling all intermediate stations, of course). Wonder if the capacity bottleneck here is Partick.
  • As for the subway, it's great when it's running one train every four minutes. It's dire when it's running one train every twelve minutes.

I'll tell you what though: the national rail app I have on my Android phone is amazing. It has a live departures board I can check on the way down to the station. Guesswork, begone!
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Old October 26th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #88
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I downloaded the DB Navigator app while in Germany. I was please you surprised to see that it works here in Glasgow too :p

Works just as well as the ScotRail app.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #89
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Another great failing of Glasgow's rail network is the fact that very little of the original Victorian station architecture of the Central and District railways (now the Argyle and North Clyde lines), and the Subway, actually still remains.

One of the things that makes the London Underground so attractive, is the fantastic looking stations that nod to the origins of the London we see today, especially on the Circle and District lines.

I'd absolutely love for the Low Level and Subway stations to be stripped back to the original features, and restored. It's a great shame that many examples of Victorian Glasgow, when it's importance was only second to London, have been demolished, or hidden away, often replaced with cheap 'modern' equivalents that last about five years before starting to look dated and shabby.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sds View Post
In what way does it resolve the shortcomings? Genuine question. Not sure what you're envisioning here.
Something like this:



It would create a proper link between the two remaining mainline termini in Glasgow. It would also free plenty of capacity at these termini and provide better connections to the metro line at two stations.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Something like this:



It would create a proper link between the two remaining mainline termini in Glasgow. It would also free plenty of capacity at these termini and provide better connections to the metro line at two stations.
But if the shortcoming is the longer lines with suburban services, and this presumably encourages more of those, no?

In principle I'd love there to be a reasonable link between the two stations. I just always have a hard time envisioning which services would be punted onto those new lines.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #92
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This is how I personally would do it. Yes, you can call me a gonk for making a map like this. But I'm just keeping the graphic design skills sharp! The map is incomplete, but you'll get the jist.


Essentially:

- Create three new Subway lines from existing and disused railway alignments and tunnels, with some short sections of new tunnels (or street running Metrolink style).
- Rerouting of Argyle Line services to Queen Street LL, reinstate the other two platforms at Queen Street LL, reinstate the Bridgeton-High Street link to continue Argyle Line services towards Dalmarnock.
- Reopening and electrification of the City Union line. Quadruple tracked between Bridgegate and Gorbals Cross to carry the new Subway lines and ScotRail services over the Clyde.
- Link between the City Union at Bridgegate and the Argyle Line at Argyle Street. This will involve some demolition works and cut/cover tunnelling works.
- Reinstatement of the railway line along the north bank of the Clyde towards Clydebank.
- Reinstatement of the tunnel between the SECC and botanics.
- Short section of deep tunnel/street running between Paisley Canal and Paisley Gilmour Street to link in with the fourth new Subway line, running between Glasgow Airport and Cartyne.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 07:15 PM   #93
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Subway modernisation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Riaz View Post





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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #94
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Not Subway, or Urban Rail, but worth a mention, at least. I know there are some folks on here who will find some interest in this.

Buses in Greater Glasgow:


While we have the Subway and the large rail network, the majority of urban movements are made using the bus. Evolving out of the cities expansive tram network, the city has an extremely expansive bus network.
image hosted on flickr

Like most UK cities (bar the capitals: London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast), Bus services are run by private companies, with no forms of franchising or regulation in place. This means that there are many different bus companies with different ticketing schemes, route numbers and liveries operating within Glasgow, which can make things quite confusing - for example, the First Bus 23 route is a completely different route to the McGill's 23 route, yet both run through central Glasgow.

The majority of services are run by First Group, who employ a large fleet of double and single decker buses across the city. Large capacity triple axle and hybrid buses can be seen working the very crowded 44, 75 and 66 routes.

SPT do run some bus services where there is no private services available. SPT also run the regions bus stations, most notably Buchanan Bus Station in Glasgow, the largest in Scotland, and an important hub for local bus and long distance coach services to northern Scotland and the south.

£40m is currently being spent on the initial phase of a BRT network in west Glasgow. 'Fastlink' as it will be known (a name previously used for Edinburgh's section of pre-tram busway) will initially provide a service between the city centre and the brand new South Glasgow Super Campus Hospital via Pacific Quay and Govan. The plan is to introduce a franchising method, wherin an operator will run the Fastlink buses on behalf of the SPT (like with bus services in London). Fastlink will be integrated with the Glasgow Subway through the yet to be announced Glasgow SPT smart card.

In the next few years, the SPT will be looking to introduce a bus franchising system across the whole network, to run buses in a similar manner to London, by introducing quality contracts. The aim would be to create unified and integrated ticketing, along with a Glasgow Bus brand identity to sit alongside Subway and Fastlink.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #95
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Hyndland - Argyle Line / North Clyde Line
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Old November 5th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolothos View Post
The majority of services are run by First Group, who employ a large fleet of double and single decker buses across the city. Large capacity triple axle and hybrid buses can be seen working the very crowded 44, 75 and 66 routes.
Regarding the First Group's bus network, they do produce nice maps:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/glas...etwork_Map.pdf
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/glas...Centre_map.pdf

Pretty sure I once saw an SPT map that covered all the private bus routes in the city and surrounding areas. Alas, I cannot find it...
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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #97
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Oooh, very nice map indeed.

First have been rolling out this new livery all over the UK. Still awful though. The buses should be liveried in the traditional public transport colours of the city, imo.
image hosted on flickr


In the 80s and 90s, it was Strathclyde Buses, and their 'Strathclyde Red', which was used across the Underground (as it was known then), the Urban Rail lines and the buses.


..and even before that, the green and amber of the Glasgow Corporation, and later the Greater Glasgow and Strathclyde PTE.



*all pictures bar the top from http://glasgowtransport.co.uk/glasgowbuses.html
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Old November 5th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolothos View Post
Not Subway, or Urban Rail, but worth a mention, at least. I know there are some folks on here who will find some interest in this.

Buses in Greater Glasgow:


While we have the Subway and the large rail network, the majority of urban movements are made using the bus. Evolving out of the cities expansive tram network, the city has an extremely expansive bus network.
image hosted on flickr

Like most UK cities (bar the capitals: London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast), Bus services are run by private companies, with no forms of franchising or regulation in place. This means that there are many different bus companies with different ticketing schemes, route numbers and liveries operating within Glasgow, which can make things quite confusing - for example, the First Bus 23 route is a completely different route to the McGill's 23 route, yet both run through central Glasgow.

The majority of services are run by First Group, who employ a large fleet of double and single decker buses across the city. Large capacity triple axle and hybrid buses can be seen working the very crowded 44, 75 and 66 routes.
.
What's the capacity of these buses? There are a few routes in Liverpool that could use these..... especially in rush hrs.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #99
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Not too sure, but quite large capacity. We have these newer ones too.. Also massive in length!
image hosted on flickr


Very large buses. And they are still being used to full capacity during the morning rush.

Glasgow does have a very strong bus fleet. Plenty of ex-London buses are used on various routes too. I'd have thought Liverpool would have such buses already in use?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #100
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Queen's Park - Cathcart Circle Lines
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