daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 8th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #461
JanVL
Registered User
 
JanVL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Antwerpen/Poznań
Posts: 5,731
Likes (Received): 81807

Poznań





__________________

RS_UK-PL, Highcliff liked this post
JanVL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 8th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #462
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,433
Likes (Received): 13459

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamaszysty View Post
I do not speak for all Poles in terms of these reconstructed buildings. Of course not all of them are bad, and many rebuilt streets are charming and very good looking, but in MY opinion these are still not strictly "historical". Another example is The Royal Castle in Warsaw. As much as I would like to think of it as a pretty good example of reconstruction ... it is NOT.
If Royal Castle in Warsaw is not a good example of reconstruction, I'd be grateful to hear from you:
1. which building IS a good example of reconstruction;
2. what prevents Royal Castle in Warsaw from being a good example (i.e. - what has been screwed up?).
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 06:11 PM   #463
Zamaszysty
Kujawski łoś bezkolizyjny
 
Zamaszysty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bydgoszcz
Posts: 6,222
Likes (Received): 2160


1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresdner_Frauenkirche is (compared to the castle in Warsaw) much more detailed reconstruction, and to speak more the most impressive part is the way they rebuilt it with using as many original elements as possible insluding using as amny parts of the rubble as possible in the "new-old" building. Every single piece of stone was measured and analysed, and finally ... there were some parts remaining that could be used as a "form" to copy, so all four corners were recreated in the historical form, and NOT an estimation.

EDIT:
Of course that is also not "perfect" as the interior is deffinately not the same as it was, but there is no way to measure paintings etc

2. Read my post where I list these most annoying and eye catching errors were made.
__________________
Po Bydgosku
Subiektywny blog o Bydgoszczy + strona FB + moja osoba +BYDGOSKIE GADŻETY
Wielkie dzięki dla wszystkich, którzy wparli PB! :)

Zamaszysty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #464
HotPocketPieLord
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 50

I hope you realize that when the royal castle was reconstructed they were not trying to make it look just like it was before the war. They were trying to recreate it more or less to what is looked like at the end of the 18th century hence the extra towers and such. Also I'm not entirely sure what you mean by less details on the exterior, the details were taken off after WW1, because many poles thought that they showed Russian influence in Poland.
__________________

rychlik, Highcliff liked this post
HotPocketPieLord no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #465
Zamaszysty
Kujawski łoś bezkolizyjny
 
Zamaszysty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bydgoszcz
Posts: 6,222
Likes (Received): 2160

Yes, but there still is the case of extra towers and misplaced and unproportional windows, and that is not a matter of details (as these are a matter o opinion in this case). Come on ... how can You rebuild a ROYAL castle and make windows that don't even line up ! O_o
__________________
Po Bydgosku
Subiektywny blog o Bydgoszczy + strona FB + moja osoba +BYDGOSKIE GADŻETY
Wielkie dzięki dla wszystkich, którzy wparli PB! :)

Zamaszysty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #466
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Malbork Castle (before partitions of Poland)


Now ("Disneyland", UNESCO World Heritage site)
__________________

Highcliff, mar04 liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 9th, 2013 at 12:12 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #467
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,433
Likes (Received): 13459

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamaszysty View Post

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresdner_Frauenkirche is (compared to the castle in Warsaw) much more detailed reconstruction, and to speak more the most impressive part is the way they rebuilt it with using as many original elements as possible insluding using as amny parts of the rubble as possible in the "new-old" building. Every single piece of stone was measured and analysed, and finally ... there were some parts remaining that could be used as a "form" to copy, so all four corners were recreated in the historical form, and NOT an estimation.
Dresdener Frauenkirche and Royal Castle in Warsaw are considered to be similar examples of thorough reconstruction using remnants of the buildings. Still, most of the historic substance of the R.C. in Warsaw and Dresdener Frauenkirche was lost for ever - and then restored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamaszysty View Post

2. Read my post where I list these most annoying and eye catching errors were made.
These are not mistakes and errors. These are examples of restoration of the castle to its 18th century form. I suggest you to read something about reconstruction of the castle before you start making comments.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina
Mruczek está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #468
Tyco75
Orgulloso de ser TICO
 
Tyco75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: La Uruca, San José
Posts: 4,771
Likes (Received): 505

Wow Torśn, nice city!
__________________

Highcliff, terrap, Martin_W, RS_UK-PL liked this post
Tyco75 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #469
rychlik
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,809
Likes (Received): 6603

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamaszysty View Post
Yes, but there still is the case of extra towers and misplaced and unproportional windows, and that is not a matter of details (as these are a matter o opinion in this case). Come on ... how can You rebuild a ROYAL castle and make windows that don't even line up ! O_o
Did you get a ruler and measure these things out? I have never noticed this problem with the windows. Show us some pictures. Images speak volumes.
Secondly, are you qualified to offer criticism on the reconstructed Royal Castle? Do you work there? Are you an architect or designer?
rychlik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 01:59 AM   #470
Deo
You know...
 
Deo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Powrót do Konstytucji II Rzeczypospolitej
Posts: 2,515
Likes (Received): 439

Modern Warsaw

[QUOTE=Michał78;105919163]
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Deo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 02:14 AM   #471
panda-raccoon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Londres / London
Posts: 95
Likes (Received): 19

Congratulations for the thread. Polska is very beautiful indeed :-)
panda-raccoon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 02:16 AM   #472
HotPocketPieLord
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 50

Zamaszysty I certainly hope you didn't use the pre world war one castle



as the restoration workers took down the pillars and moved the windows to their current position.

Only the color of the castle and its roof material aren't true to the pre-war structure, aside from that its identical.

Now stop trying to prove it otherwise hundreds of people spent nearly a decade trying to restore a symbol of polish sovereignty, if anything that makes the castles history far more valuable, so don't compare it to DisneyLand.
__________________

rychlik, Highcliff liked this post
HotPocketPieLord no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:10 AM   #473
Roman_P
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,617
Likes (Received): 1774

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


So I understand that most Poles do not appreciate Long Market or Mariacka streets in Gdansk (at least 50% of buildings along these streets are not faithful reconstructions), Poznan (Merchants' Houses, "Gothic" archcathedral or most buildings at the square are just after-war designs), historic sites of Olsztyn, Wroclaw Market Square, Opole Market Square, and many, many more...even Krakow (major restorations of Wawel Royal Castle and Sukiennice in the 19th century, tomb of Wladyslaw III Warnenczyk from 1903, etc.).
Not every reconstruction of a completely destroyed building looks like Disneyland pavillion despite of its historical truthfullness. For example the castle of Warsaw doesn't look this way to me even though it's a fantasy to some extent. But the Poznan castle does. It's hard to determine the reason. Maybe it's the wrong choice of materials. Maybe proportions and details. Maybe... something else which gives to the building some spirit of authencity (even if it's fake in fact) - or doesn't give.
This said, the problem of correctness in historical reconstructions is crucial. But sometimes it has not much to do with an impression the building makes.
Roman_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #474
Roman_P
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,617
Likes (Received): 1774

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Malbork Castle (before partitions of Poland)


Now ("Disneyland", UNESCO World Heritage site)
It's typical for most of European castles and fortresses which seem to us so authentically medieval. It's always useful to look at their puctures of mid-19th century at least: there are usually ruins or baroque palaces (or some mixture of both) at their places. Some were re-medievalized in the second half of the 19th century (like Carcassonne), some in the 20th century (like Trakai).
__________________

Mruczek, Highcliff liked this post
Roman_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #475
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

The 19th and the beginning of 20th century are quite fascinating with so many Romantic projects in neo-styles in Germany, France, England, and other European countries. It's such a shame that Poland didn't have its own administration at the time. Otherwise, I'm sure that we would have more castles, city halls, palaces, city walls and churches rebuilt or preserved without any objections, complains about the size of windows, exterior colours, extra towers, and other bs, like it is today.

So many buildings in Poland were demolished in the 19th century and never rebuilt, for example:
http://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratusz_w_Krakowie
http://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koleg...eny_w_Poznaniu
http://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kości...ek_w_Warszawie
http://www.turystyka.torun.pl/art/29...-artusa-2.html

And the list goes on and on...

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 9th, 2013 at 11:53 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #476
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

"Disneylands" in Germany...










Many of the castles in Germany have been rebuilt in Gothic Revival style hundreds of years after demolition.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 11th, 2013 at 09:54 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #477
Saxonia
Registered User
 
Saxonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Res publica Banana
Posts: 1,057
Likes (Received): 7404

Well, it is not the fault of these castles, that Walt Disney used them as a model.
__________________

Mruczek, rychlik, Highcliff liked this post
Saxonia está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #478
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
Well, it is not the fault of these castles, that Walt Disney used them as a model.
But you see, in Poland there's quite accurate documentation to reconstruct many churches, palaces, castles, etc. and people still are not willing to take a risk and restore the lost cultural heritage. Recent works in Dresden, Potsdam and Frankfurt illustrate that reconstructions are possible and we shouldn't be afraid to make our cities more beautiful.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 9th, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #479
Saxonia
Registered User
 
Saxonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Res publica Banana
Posts: 1,057
Likes (Received): 7404

True, but the different is, that in the 19th century many old and destroyed castle in germany were rebuilt after an ideal how it should be, not how it was.
Saxonia está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #480
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
True, but the different is, that in the 19th century many old and destroyed castle in germany were rebuilt after an ideal how it should be, not how it was.
And that is why we should rebuild cultural heritage based on as many historical sources as possible. But the size of windows, exterior colour and other small details shouldn't stand in a way of reconstructions. Examples from Poland that I've shown here (Krakow City Hall, Baroque Church in Warsaw, etc.) are well documented and could be more faithful reconstructions than Malbork Castle, which is on UNESCO list.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 9th, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
breslau, bydgoszcz, gdańsk, kraków, lublin, podlaskie, poznań, poznan, przemyśl, stargard, toruń, warszawa, wrocław, zamość, zamosc

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu