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Old September 3rd, 2016, 02:36 PM   #641
BLACK DAHLIA
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The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..

Last edited by BLACK DAHLIA; September 3rd, 2016 at 02:43 PM.
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 06:59 PM   #642
tomek_j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..
Are you shure?
Wrocław
under the reign of rulers
990 -1335 Piast dynasty - not German
1335 - 1526 Czech domination - not German too
1526 - 1740 under the rule of the Habsburgs - I think the Austrians
1740 - 1939 German- You right all 198 years

Gdańsk
997-1308 under Polish rule
1308-1454 Order of the Teutonic Knights
1454 -1793 under Polish rule
1793- 1920 under German rule
1920-1939 free city Gdańsk (Polish, and German)
I think you do not really know the history
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 10:13 PM   #643
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In which period are the old buildings you see today in Gdansk and Wroclaw buildt ? That's the question
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 10:35 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by mhjo View Post
In which period are the old buildings you see today in Gdansk and Wroclaw buildt ? That's the question
great question - congratulations !!!
I think ... from 1793 until 1939 and not earlier, not later
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 10:42 PM   #645
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^
In case of Gdańsk it's mostly 1950-60 because the city was largely destroyed and only a few buildings were really reconstructed.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 02:45 AM   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..
It is not a 'fact' - just your misguided opinion.

Gdansk and Wroclaw have a mixture of architecture. To claim that Germany was the only or even most valid architectural contributor is arrogant. German architecture style came very late in the development of both cities - whose identity and essence was already established before the imposition of Germanic style.

The look of both cities today is thanks to the skill of Polish reconstructors and is not strictly faithfull to pre-war.

PS. If you check on top of the tower of the old town hall in Gdansk - there is a statue. That would be the statue of the Polish King. It's been there for 500 years. 😆
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Old September 4th, 2016, 11:10 AM   #647
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Henryk II the Pious (High Duke of Poland between 1238 and 1241, buried in the crypt of the Franciscan Church of Sts. Vincent and Jacob in Wrocław, now in the National Museum)



http://medievalis.przewodnikwroclaw....-ii-poboznego/

Henryk IV Probus (High Duke of Poland between 1288 and 1290, buried in the Collegiate Church of the Holy Cross and St. Bartholomeus in Wrocław, now in the National Museum)



http://medievalis.przewodnikwroclaw....obusa-inaczej/

Religious and political capitals of Poland in the 10th-11th centuries AD according to Thietmar, Gallus Anonymous and Cosmas of Prague:
- Gniezno
- Krakow
- Wroclaw
- Poznan
- Wloclawek
- Giecz
- Sandomierz
- Kolobrzeg

"Chronicon Thietmari" (written between 1012 and 1018)
Quote:
Bolizlavus (...) Nec mora, fecit ibi archiepiscopatum [Gnesin], ut spero legitime, sine consensu tamen prefati presulis, cuius diocesi omnis haec regio subiecta est; committens eundem predicti martyris fratri Radimo eidemque subiciens Reinbernum, Salsae Cholbergiensis aecclesiae episcopum, Popponem Cracuaensem, Iohannem Wrotizlaensem, Vungero Posnaniensi excepto; factoque ibi altari sanctas in eo honorifice condidit reliquias.


Sources: http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/chrons/thietmar.htm#II, http://www.mgh-bibliothek.de/thietmar/fol.0069.html

"Annales seu Cronicae incliti regni Poloniae" (written between 1113 and 1116)
Quote:
De duce Popelone. Dictus Chosisco.

Erat namque in civitate Gneznensi, quae nidus interpretatur Sclavonice, dux nomine Popel, duos filios habens, qui more gentilitatis ad eorum tonsuram grande convivium praeparavit, ubi plurimos suorum procerum et amicorum invitavit.

(...)

De magnificentia et potentia Bolezlavi Gloriosi.

Plura itaque sunt et maiora gesta Bolezlavi, quam a nobis possint describi, vel etiam nudis sermonibus enarrari. Nam quis arithmeticus satis certo numero ferratas eius acies valeat computare, nedum etiam describendo victorias et triumphos tantae multitudinis recitare? De Poznan namque mille trecenti loricati milites cum quatuor milibus clipeatorum militum, de Gneznen mille quingenti loricati et quinque milia clipeatorum, de Wladislau castro octingenti loricati et duo milia clipeatorum, de Gdech trecenti loricati et duo milia clipeatorum; hii omnes fortissimi et ad bella doctissimih magni Bolezlavi tempore procedebant. De aliis vero civitatibus et castellis et nobis longus et infinitus labor est enarrare, et vobis forsitan fastidiosum fuerit hoc audire. Sed ut vobis fastidium numerandi praetermittam, numerum vobis sine numero multitudinis anteponam. Plures namque habebat rex Bolezlaus milites loricatos, quam habeat nostro tempore tota Polonia clipeatos; tempore Bolezlavi totidem in Polonia fere milites habebantur, quot homines cuiusque generis nostro tempore continentur.

(...)

Boleslaus vero, in Wratislaw, et in Cracovia, et in Sandomir, sedes regni principales obtinuat.




Sources: https://www.hs-augsburg.de/~harsch/C.../gal_ch01.html, http://pamiecpolski.archiwa.gov.pl/o...odeks-zamojski, http://www.giecz.pl/index.php?go=gall-anonim

"Chronica Boėmorum" (written between 1119 and 1125)
Quote:
At that time, with the most noble duke of Poland removed from this light and his sons Boleslaw and Wladyslaw still in infancy and taking milk at the breast, Kazimierz was the one hope of salvation for the Poles, all fleeing to different places in wretched flight. Noticing this, Duke Bretislav - in the fourth year of his reign as duke - thought it would be best for him not to miss an opportunity to damage his enemies, more precisely to revenge the injuries Duke Mieszko had once inflicted on the Czechs. As quickly as he was able, having taken counsel with his men. Bretislav ordered them to invade [Poland]. Sending throughout the province of all of Bohemia a collar of twisted cork as a sign of his command, he immediately pronounced a terrible sentence: that, once the signal was given, whoever came out to camp sluggishly would know without a doubt that he would be hanged by such a collar in the gallows. They gathered into one in an instant - in the twinkling of an eye and to a man - and Bretislav entered the land of Poland, widowed of its prince, and invaded its enemy.

Like a huge storm, he raged, raved, and leveled everything. Thus he devastated villages with murders, rapine, and fires, and broke into fortifications by force. Entering from the summit, he overthrew their metropolis at Cracow [Krakov] and seized its goods. He even uncovered in the treasury old treasures stolen from ancient dukes, namely, an infinite quantity gold and silver. He set fire to the rest of the burgs and destroyed them to the ground.

When they came to the castle of Giecz [castrum Gdec], the castellans, together with those villagers who had taken refuge there, unable to endure the duke's assault, came out to meet him. Bearing a golden rod, which was the sign of surrender, they humbly asked that Bretislav transfer them peacefully to Bohemia with their cattle and the rest of their belongings. The duke, acquiescing to their requests, later led them into Bohemia and gave them not a small part of the forest called Cernin. He established one overseer and judge from among them and decreed that both they and their descendants should live forever under the law which they had had in Poland. They are called "Hedcane" to this day, the name derived from the burg.

Not far from the aforesaid burg [Giecz], they came to the metropolis of Gniezno [Gnezden], strong by virtue of its location and the defenses in front of the walls but easily captured by enemies because few citizens were inhabiting it. At that time, a most precious treasure lay there, in the basilica of the holy Mary, ever-virgin Mother of God, namely, the body of the most blessed martyr, Adalbert. The Czechs soon took control of the burg without Mars [i.e. without a fight], and with great joy went in the entrance of the sacred church. All other booty neglected, they demanded that only the precious mass of the holy body, which suffred on Christ's behalf, be given to them.

(...)

The burg of Wroclaw [urbs Wratizlav] and other burgs were returned by Duke Bretislav to the Poles on the condition that they pay five hundred marks of silver and thirty of gold annually both to him and to his successors.
* Metropolis, which in Cosmas' usage implies either political or ecclesiastical pre-eminence





Sources: http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Bro...ge=585#content, https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...%C5%84&f=false, http://www.kb.se/codex-gigas/eng/Bro...ge=591#content

Gniezno

Google app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...kieta&hl=en_GB)
iOS app (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gnie...651992794?mt=8)

Poznan


Wroclaw


Krakow

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 5th, 2016 at 10:35 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 11:48 AM   #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomek_j View Post
Are you shure?
Wrocław
under the reign of rulers
990 -1335 Piast dynasty - not German
1335 - 1526 Czech domination - not German too
1526 - 1740 under the rule of the Habsburgs - I think the Austrians
1740 - 1939 German- You right all 198 years

Gdańsk
997-1308 under Polish rule
1308-1454 Order of the Teutonic Knights
1454 -1793 under Polish rule
1793- 1920 under German rule
1920-1939 free city Gdańsk (Polish, and German)
I think you do not really know the history
Poland was ruled by Saxons for about 60 years so I guess in your logic, at that time all of Poland was Germany and all Poles were Germans.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 12:05 PM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..
First of all it's Krakow, the former capital city of Poland, which is world wide known for it's beauty. Its architecture is definitely the most historically rich too. Hence, it's positioned on the first Unesco list. Also it's the country's best preserved metropoly.
Unlike the rest of the biggest cities in Poland, the Russians were less barbarians here than usually during their campaign in Poland and Germans were not able to destroy Krakow as they commonly did in this part of Europe occupied by them.

Last edited by Maruni; September 4th, 2016 at 12:18 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
Poland was ruled by Saxons for about 60 years so I guess in your logic, at that time all of Poland was Germany and all Poles were Germans.
You are wrong
Poland was not ruled by Saxons. Two saxons were Polish kings,and unfortunately, very bad kings.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #651
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You just repeated what I said. But be happy with it. Looking at your stupid list, it's obvious that a discussion would be completely worthless anyway.

I'd say I like Torun/Thorn the most of all polish cities. It reminds a bit of Tangermünde in the Altmark. I spent a day in Torun during the Euro 2012 because a friend from North Germany has family there.

Torun



Tangermünde

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Last edited by Saxonia; September 4th, 2016 at 12:54 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #652
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del.

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Old September 4th, 2016, 03:09 PM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
Looking at your stupid list, it's obvious that a discussion would be completely worthless anyway.
oh come on
stupid list? historical facts are not stupid, they can be uncomfortable for example
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Old September 4th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #654
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cut that crap, please, both sides.
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Old September 5th, 2016, 02:59 AM   #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Śmierć View Post
cut that crap, please, both sides.
I think the problem here is the question. If there was to be an answer - then I would hazzard to guess it would be Krakow. That is what most people would say - but beauty can be found in many places and people's opinions vary for different reasons. For that reason there is no real answer and therefore trolls are encouraged and yes crap is attracted.

Quote:
I'd say I like Torun/Thorn the most of all polish cities. It reminds a bit of Tangermünde .
Yes - Torun was a radical trail blazing place in it's day - with influences from Poland Hanseatic League Prussia Teutonic Knights Russia etc generating great minds such as M Kopernik (Copernicus) etc - so I understand why Germanic towns would want to emulate it 😆

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Old September 5th, 2016, 03:12 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by tomek_j View Post
You are wrong
Poland was not ruled by Saxons. Two saxons were Polish kings,and unfortunately, very bad kings.
It was a personal union but Saxonia was too small to dominate Polan. As for the kings they were chosen by our nobility because they were weak so we got what we wanted.
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Old September 5th, 2016, 03:25 AM   #657
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/...00017.1.AwzClI

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Old September 5th, 2016, 10:18 AM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..
Have you even seen other Polish cities? Wrocław and Gdańsk would be in top 10, obviously, but Kraków, Zamość, Toruń, Lublin are all more pretty (it doesn't help that Wrocław and Gdańsk were destroyed in WW2 much more than the other cities except Warszawa).
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Old September 5th, 2016, 05:54 PM   #659
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I visited Krakow and I really liked it.
In fact, there's an incredible salt mine to be visited not too far from the city.
We did it and we were astonished.
There's a church within the mine, with handcarved sculptures. One word: incredible!
When I was walking on the stairs going down, I thought I was in a movie scene of Lord of the rings!
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Old September 5th, 2016, 06:57 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
The nice cities in Poland are the ones that were formerly German.(before WWII)
..Especially Wroclaw(Breslau) and Gdansk(Dantzig)
No offense but it is a fact..
For me the most beautifull cities in Germany are the ones that were formerly settled by Slavic peoples.
.. Especially Dresden(Dre˛ďany) and Leipzig(Lipsk).
No offense but it is a fact.
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