Is Japan really that safe?

[CigarSmoke]

People often talk about Japan as if it is a safe haven that has almost no crime to speak of, but if you actually read about Japanese crime stats, it seems this may not be fully the case.

Actually, take Tokyo for example. From what I can work out, Tokyo has just as many murders as London, and for the most part is just as much a violent city as London is.

For example, from the stats I can find, in 2004-2005 the Tokyo City (23 wards) area has around 120 murders a year for a population of just under 9,000,000.

Whereas greater London, a comparably sized area, in 2011 had only 117 murders.

Basically it seems that on the whole Tokyo is just a violent as London, and those stats are from 2004, and have probably increased now. I think Japan's days as a low crime country are over if it ever was at all.

[hkskyline]

What's the rate per population? Murders are only one type of crime. What about the others?

[CigarSmoke]

Originally Posted by hkskyline

What's the rate per population? Murders are only one type of crime. What about the others?

I couldn't find any per 100,000 statistics, but interestingly, it looks like Hong Kong is actually a safer city than Tokyo with a lower violent crime rate.

[Momo1435]

If you only look at the murder rate you will see that Tokyo is as safe as London.

If you also look at other statistics you will see that for example the number of assaults and robberies is significantly lower then in Europe or the USA.

Here's a bunch of crime statistics up to 2007 in Japanese:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%...B2%BB%E5%AE%89

[CigarSmoke]

In fact, for years Japan had a significantly higher murder rate than the UK, but it began to drop in the late 70s and through the 80s.

However, the fact remains that Tokyo's murder rate is roughly similar to London, and I suspect the assualt rate is similar also.

Obviously, Japan is by no means a dangerous country, and it is probably much safer than the US, but I don't think it's much safer than the UK. In fact, I'd say its probably about the same.

[Momo1435]

The murder rate is just high compared to other crimes in Tokyo.


just look at the statistics for the cases where the victims of crime sustained injuries:

24.26 per 100.000 in 2007

compared to England:

In 2008/09 there 70,962 assault with injury offences in London with a rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents.[27] This was slightly higher than the total rate for England and Wales, which was 7.0 per 1,000 residents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London

That's 700 per 100.000 for England and Wales compared to 24 in Japan.

When it comes to robberies the difference is even bigger.

The chance that you will be the victim of a crime in Japan is simply much lower then in Europe or the USA.

[ukiyo]

According to the other thread in the section someone cited that London has a murder rate of 1.92. This is the source that was given: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cac...-12-006-EN.PDF

Tokyo has a murder rate of .75 :http://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.jp/.../k_tokei22.htm

Also contrary to belief, while Japan's murder rate is lower than most of the world it's not that different...the big difference is in assault, robberies etc. If you look at assault or theft statistics than Japan is often times several times "safer" than european countries (and of course the USA). As momo showed above, there's 700 assaults in England for every 24 in Japan. That's nearly a 30x difference in the statistic.

[t3ars_culprit]

Originally Posted by CigarSmoke

People often talk about Japan as if it is a safe haven that has almost no crime to speak of, but if you actually read about Japanese crime stats, it seems this may not be fully the case.

Actually, take Tokyo for example. From what I can work out, Tokyo has just as many murders as London, and for the most part is just as much a violent city as London is.

For example, from the stats I can find, in 2004-2005 the Tokyo City (23 wards) area has around 120 murders a year for a population of just under 9,000,000.

Whereas greater London, a comparably sized area, in 2011 had only 117 murders.

Basically it seems that on the whole Tokyo is just a violent as London, and those stats are from 2004, and have probably increased now. I think Japan's days as a low crime country are over if it ever was at all.

How can you just determined that Tokyo crime rate is increasing year by year without solid proof..
Even your 2004-2005 data is not supported with valid proof..

Trolling?

[the spliff fairy]

UK has some of the highest violent crime rates in the world, higher than US or even South Africa (by one fifth). London has 7x the recorded crime of NYC.

However it also has some of the lowest murder rates due to the strict gun and knife laws. In short it's a shining example of how weapon control saves lives:

7x the crime of NYC, significantly higher violent crime yet only 1/4 of the murders - and thats when NYC is experiencing a 30 year all time low.

London has 1.8 murders per 100,000, NYC 6.3. Tokyo 0.75.

Japan as a whole has the lowest homicide rates of any country over 500,000 population (rate of 0.4), and dropping. This is despite the high suicide rate, so murder is even less common than that even.

(Third column down 2000s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate


All said could be worse, in medieval London it was 50 homicides per 100,000.

[Mr Bricks]

^I read an article that said medieval London was in fact a safer place than present day Washington.

[SaysItAsItIs]

Originally Posted by the spliff fairy

UK has some of the highest violent crime rates in the world, higher than US or even South Africa (by one fifth). London has 7x the recorded crime of NYC.

So in other words, Brits are quite nasty, aggressive people, but the government is effective in keeping leathal weapons out of their rather volatile hands?

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by SaysItAsItIs

So in other words, Brits are quite nasty, aggressive people, but the government is effective in keeping leathal weapons out of their rather volatile hands?

One confounding factor that plays a large role in crime statistics is reporting rate. For example, some Scandinavian countries are said to have some of the highest reporting rates for crime in the world, whilst some developing countries have a negligible reporting rate. This skews crime statistics grossly, which is one reason that murder rates are more often compared between countries rather than other crimes as there is less of a rate of report confounding factor if there are dead bodies involved.

[italystf]

In areas with strong organized mafia-like crime such USA, South Africa, Russia, Mexico, southern Italy the rate of report is low because many crimes are committed between rival gangs who react with another revenge crime and don't report offences received to the police.
In countries where crime is mostly done by individuals or small groups (most of Europe) victims are often common innocent people who off course report them to the police.
In poor and corrupt third world countries many people don't contact police forces because they have little means, no law knowledge and are often intimidated by dispotic guys that are often more powerful than the corrupt police.

Is also difficult make a comparison between different countries with different law systems. Are cyber crimes more common in China or in the USA? Hard to say, in the USA cyber crime means scams, hacking, child pornography, while in China many online activities that are legal in the USA are forbidden. Are domestic violence more common in Italy or in Saudi Arabia? What's perfectly legal in a country (segregate at home your wife) is a crime in the other. Even between democratic European countries there are differences: in some you can have a joint for your own use, in other no.

[the spliff fairy]

Originally Posted by SaysItAsItIs

So in other words, Brits are quite nasty, aggressive people, but the government is effective in keeping leathal weapons out of their rather volatile hands?

Its not that Brits are nasty, we just tend to binge-drink alot (according to the govt that's anything over 3 pints). A large proportion of the violence is drink related, and also alot of it is with the kind of chavvy youth culture that's all the rage - perpetrated by youths against fellow youths. Violent crime amongst the young went up by a third in 3 years between 2005- 2008, mostly fuelled by robbery, then fights. However half of all sex crimes is also committed against children 17 or under.

In short, you cross the line between sleepy old Norwich, which is the norm, and a township in South Africa if you are drinking on a night out, or are young and urban.

[italystf]

I don't think that UK's high crime rates depend mostly by alchool. Other country with a strong drinking culture like Ireland, Germany, the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries have low crime rates.

[Jonesy55]

The total of all offences in which a firearm was used in the UK during 2010/11 year.

Shotgun 608
Handgun 3,105
Imitation firearm 1,610
Rifles/others 1,701
Air guns 4,203

Total 11,227

Of which weapon was:

Fired 55%
Used as blunt instrument 3%
Used to threaten only 42%

Number of recorded firearms offences (excl. Air weapons) by police area in 2010/11 year (and rate per 100k). Ranked by rate

Metropolitan/City of London 2,748 (35/100k)
West Midlands 912 (34/100k)
Greater Manchester 504 (19/100k)
Merseyside 226 (17/100k)
Bedfordshire 105 (17/100k)
Lancashire 179 (12/100k)
Northamptonshire 85 (12/100k)
Cumbria 64 (12/100k)
South Yorkshire 134 (10/100k)
Nottinghamshire 104 (10/100k)
Derbyshire 102 (10/100k)
West Yorkshire 201 (9/100k)
Warwickshire 50 (9/100k)
Essex 135 (8/100k)
Leicestershire 80 (8/100k)
Cambridgeshire 63 (8/100k)
Gloucestershire 47 (7/100k)
Avon and Somerset 107 (7/100k)
Surrey 83 (7/100k)
West Mercia 80 (7/100k)
Dorset 47 (7/100k)
Thames Valley 144 (6/100k)
Cheshire 62 (6/100k)
North Wales 39 (6/100k)
Gwent 34 (6/100k)
Northumbria 68 (5/100k)
South Wales 63 (5/100k)
Staffordshire 53 (5/100k)
Humberside 42 (5/100k)
Wiltshire 30 (5/100k)
Hampshire 79 (4/100k)
Devon and Cornwall 64 (4/100k)
Hertfordshire 39 (4/100k)
North Yorkshire 33 (4/100k)
Suffolk 26 (4/100k)
Durham 24 (4/100k)
Cleveland 20 (4/100k)
Sussex 49 (3/100k)
Kent 46 (3/100k)
Norfolk 24 (3/100k)
Dyfed-Powys 16 (3/100k)
Lincolnshire 17 (2/100k)

England & Wales total 7,024 (13/100k)

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by the spliff fairy

Its not that Brits are nasty, we just tend to binge-drink alot (according to the govt that's anything over 3 pints). A large proportion of the violence is drink related, and also alot of it is with the kind of chavvy youth culture that's all the rage - perpetrated by youths against fellow youths. Violent crime amongst the young went up by a third in 3 years between 2005- 2008, mostly fuelled by robbery, then fights. However half of all sex crimes is also committed against children 17 or under.

In short, you cross the line between sleepy old Norwich, which is the norm, and a township in South Africa if you are drinking on a night out, or are young and urban.

I think that's a rather extreme portrayal of a typical night at the pub!

Anyway, reported robbery rates per 100,000 people by police force area in England and Wales, 2011. As you can see there is an enormous difference between a few large urban areas and the majority of the country.

Metropolitan (London) 510
West Midlands (Birmingham) 306
Greater Manchester 171
Bedfordshire 129
Nottinghamshire 117
West Yorkshire (Leeds-Bradford) 115
Merseyside (Liverpool) 110
Northamptonshire 101
Leicestershire 90
Thames Valley 83
Avon & Somerset (includes Bristol) 77
Essex 69
South Yorkshire (Sheffield) 65
Warwickshire 62
Derbyshire 59
Hertfordshire 57
Humberside (Hull) 56
Cambridgeshire 56
Gloucestershire 55
Cleveland (Middlesbrough) 55
Hampshire 53
Kent 52
Sussex 50
Lancashire 49
Suffolk 47
Staffordshire 44
West Mercia 41
Wiltshire 41
Northumbria 40
South Wales (includes Cardiff) 38
Dorset 37
Surrey 35
Cheshire 35
Lincolnshire 33
Devon & Cornwall 29
Gwent 27
Norfolk 26
North Yorkshire 24
North Wales 24
Durham 20
Cumbria 14
Dyfed-Powys 8

[Rev Stickleback]

Originally Posted by the spliff fairy

UK has some of the highest violent crime rates in the world, higher than US or even South Africa (by one fifth). London has 7x the recorded crime of NYC.

I think we are in the realms of "statistics" rather than statistics.

The London v New York one, IIRC, was due to measuring the whole of the London metro area v just Manhattan Island.


Although things have improved, South Africa is still one of the most dangerous countries in the world. Any stat which has the UK showing up as 1/5th more dangerous should be viewed with a high degree of suspicion.

The stats just sound a little Daily Mail-ish, where they get people to get angry about the headline, and not bother with the detail,

[techniques1200s]

Originally Posted by the spliff fairy

UK has some of the highest violent crime rates in the world, higher than US or even South Africa (by one fifth). London has 7x the recorded crime of NYC.

This is not actually true. Crime statistics are compiled differently in different countries. Jurisdictions in the US for example "officially" record (as in sends the data to the FBI) only a fraction of the crime that is officially reported. Take assault rates for example...in the UK, basically everything is recorded in the crime stats, whereas in the US, only aggravated assaults (the worst category of assault) are reported to the FBI at the end of the year, while the vast majority of total assaults are not included (the FBI stats are the ones that get compared whenever a comparison of some sort occurs with US crime stats). When you say that the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US or South Africa, you're basically comparing apples to oranges to rocks. You can be pretty sure that if the US or South Africa recorded crime in the same way that it's recorded in the UK, that they would have much higher violent crime rates than the UK does.

I'd say the only category that is generally comparable across national boundaries is murder rate...and even then it's not a perfect comparison. The murder rates recorded in the US for example do no include manslaughter, or victims of justifiable homicides, whereas in many other countries they're included in the homicide count (in some countries, even attempted homicides are included in the homicide count...those are counted as assaults in the US though).

[Somnifor]

People always talk about crime in the US as if it is a given that it is sky high, but according to this article I was reading today overall violent crime in the US is lower than the OECD average.

Originally Posted by techniques1200s

Jurisdictions in the US for example "officially" record (as in sends the data to the FBI) only a fraction of the crime that is officially reported.

I don't buy this. San Francisco and a few other cities have crappy, apathetic police departments but if there is an assult in the Anysuburb, USA where most people live it will definitely be reported. I think the outrageously indifferent attitude of the San Francisco police has made you cynical.

Crime rates vary wildly in the US, within metros and especially between regions. In North Dakota people leave their cars unlocked and running in the winter and they don't get stolen, on the other hand in big cities in the south people steal anything that isn't tied down.