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Old May 21st, 2012, 09:27 AM   #21
Cyrus
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Exterior dome of Taj Mahal:

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/roypras...n/photostream/

Exterior dome of Shah Mosque:

image hosted on flickr
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Old May 21st, 2012, 10:02 AM   #22
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Taj Mahal Wall Detail:

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/lionfrr...n/photostream/

Shah Mosque Wall Detail:

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/golden_...n/photostream/
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Old May 21st, 2012, 12:11 PM   #23
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Taj Mahal, a general view from outside:

image hosted on flickr


http://www.flickr.com/photos/larrypr...n/photostream/

Shah Mosque, a general view from outside:

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/dslewis...n/photostream/
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:46 PM   #24
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Thats a very obscure genral view of the Taj you chose to depict there.

About Badshahi mosque - are you comparing just the sizes of things? I believe a proper comparison would be like to like in terms of purpose of the building, similarity in plan etc.

1) You seem to be comparing a mosque with a mausoleum.
2) overly symmetrical design with one that is not as symmetrical
3) you seem to be comparing details of individual elements. However, a building is not just the individual elements, but the entire composition. The individual elements may be totally bland, but combine them together and you have something totally different. You cannot appreciate a symphony of Mozart if you break it up into 10 second pieces.
4) both buildings have totally different stylistical principles, even though the architectural elements derive from Persian architecture. The Taj's decoration is more sculptural and minimalist, whereas the Shah mosque is more colorful, dense, and mainly based on tilework.

So again, even though both buildings are very beautiful in their own regard, IMHO they don't really stand for an apples to apples comparison.

And in conclusion, the Taj wins a classical competition most definitely, not because of the details, but because of the entire composition which is kindof out of this world.

Last edited by swerveut; May 22nd, 2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:49 PM   #25
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Some parting shots:

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Taj Mahal by ndj5, on Flickr
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:50 PM   #26
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image hosted on flickr

Taj Mahal by impeltola, on Flickr


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Taj Mahal by impeltola, on Flickr
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swerveut View Post
Thats a very obscure genral view of the Taj you chose to depict there.
Also about Shah mosque, both of them are from outside.

Quote:
About Badshahi mosque - are you comparing just the sizes of things? I believe a proper comparison would be like to like in terms of purpose of the building, similarity in plan etc.
No, I'm comparing two of the greatest buildings in the Persian style which were built almost at the same time. It is meaningless to compare an ancient mosque to a modern mosque.

For example as you read in Unesco website: http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1188 scholars such as A.U. Pope have described the mausoleum of Oljaytu in Soltaniyeh as ‘anticipating the Taj Mahal’.

But the dome of Soltaniyeh is almost two times older than Taj Mahal and you see an early Persian style which is very different from the one in 17th century.



Quote:
1) You seem to be comparing a mosque with a mausoleum.
There is almost no difference between a mosque and a mausoleum in the Persian style, is this a mosque or a mausoleum:



Quote:
2) overly symmetrical design with one that is not as symmetrical
Shah mosque has also a symmetrical design but it is connected to Naqsh-i Jahan square:

image hosted on flickr


Quote:
3) you seem to be comparing details of individual elements. However, a building is not just the individual elements, but the entire composition. The individual elements may be totally bland, but combine them together and you have something totally different. You cannot appreciate a symphony of Mozart if you break it up into 10 second pieces.
Do you buy a house after just seeing it from a distance? You can never say this building or house is better than another one, except by comparing their different parts.

Quote:
4) both buildings have totally different stylistical principles, even though the architectural elements derive from Persian architecture. The Taj's decoration is more sculptural and minimalist, whereas the Shah mosque is more colorful, dense, and mainly based on tilework.
Decoration is not the stylistical principle of a building, both of them have all stylistical principles of a Persian style building such as pishtaq, dome, minarets, ... There should be some differences to compare, if both of them were the same, there would be no reason to compare.
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Last edited by Cyrus; May 22nd, 2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
No, I'm comparing two of the greatest buildings in the Persian style which were built almost at the same time. It is meaningless to compare an ancient mosque to a modern mosque.
Badshahi mosque completion date 1673, Taj Mahal completion date 1653, Shah Mosque completion date 1629... come again? what were you saying was ancient? or what modern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
For example as you read in Unesco website: http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1188 scholars such as A.U. Pope have described the mausoleum of Oljaytu in Soltaniyeh as ‘anticipating the Taj Mahal’.
Sure, even Humayun's mausoleum (completed in 1572) was anticipating the Taj Mahal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
There is almost no difference between a mosque and a mausoleum in the Persian style, is this a mosque or a mausoleum:


Please elaborate? What have you posted here? it seems like the Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan - of which the part you posted here is the Mausoleum with a central focus layout. Of course, there is probably an adjoining mosque but same is true for the Taj Mahal. The point is the main focus of the building. For the Shah Mosque it is a mosque primarily with a plan having a sahn as the focus and structures built around it. For Taj Mahal main purpose is the mausoleum as the focus with structures (mainly gardens) built around it.

This would be like comparing the Colosseum with the Pantheon and saying that they are both Roman style so they can be compared.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
Do you buy a house after just seeing it from a distance? You can never say this building or house is better than another one, except by comparing their different parts.
The watchword here is overall effect. You seem to be focusing only on the details.


Quote:
Decoration is not the stylistical principle of a building, both of them have all stylistical principles of a Persian style building such as pishtaq, dome, minarets, ... There should be some differences to compare, if both of them were the same, there would be no reason to compare.
You can compare all you want, however my only point here is your comparison might be more meaningful if you compare like to like instead of apples to oranges just because they are both fruit.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swerveut View Post
Badshahi mosque completion date 1673, Taj Mahal completion date 1653, Shah Mosque completion date 1629... come again? what were you saying was ancient? or what modern?
Shah Mosque was built in 27 uninterrupted years but Badshahi mosque in 2 years, I say again I'm comparing two of the greatest buildings in the Persian style, there could be some other ones in the ancient times but it is meaningless to compare them to these ones.

Quote:
Sure, even Humayun's mausoleum (completed in 1572) was anticipating the Taj Mahal.
It is clear that Taj Mahal is better than Humayun's mausoleum, we can compare these two but everyone knows the one which was built later is better.

Quote:
Please elaborate? What have you posted here? it seems like the Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan - of which the part you posted here is the Mausoleum with a central focus layout. Of course, there is probably an adjoining mosque but same is true for the Taj Mahal. The point is the main focus of the building. For the Shah Mosque it is a mosque primarily with a plan having a sahn as the focus and structures built around it. For Taj Mahal main purpose is the mausoleum as the focus with structures (mainly gardens) built around it.
That is an Imamzadeh in Bandar Abbas, south of Iran, there are numeous mosques with no sahn (courtyard), like Sheikh Lotfallah Mosque in Isfahan which is more famous than Shah mosque.

Quote:
The watchword here is overall effect. You seem to be focusing only on the details.
I have focused on both of them but it seems you prefer to ignore the details.


Quote:
You can compare all you want, however my only point here is your comparison might be more meaningful if you compare like to like instead of apples to oranges just because they are both fruit.
I have done the same thing in this thread, pishtaq & pishtaq, minaret & minaret, dome & dome, ..., not like comparing the seating area of the Colosseum to the Pantheon's dome!
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Old August 9th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #30
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Many tombs similar in style, plan or both to the Taj Mahal are scattered all over Northern India.

These examples are from the states of Haryana and Punjab alone. Not sure which of them predate the Taj and which of them follow it.



































....and probably a few dozen more in other states.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #31
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The Stone Dome: http://www.iraniantours.com/images/a...rman/jabal.htm -> This building is beleived to date back to the 2nd century AD functioning as Zoroastraion Fire-temple of its time.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #32
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It's all about proportions, mixes and colours in Taj Mahal.

The somptuosity in size but humbleness in colours, the perfect symmetry in the layout of the plot & garden, and the onion shaped majestic white dome, which seems to defy gravity because of its shape.

It also suggests that the dome is floating away from the building and ascending to the sky just like a soap ballon.

And it's a tomb for a couple in love.

And the colour...White has always been divine, pure, noble and humble in the same time. It suggests the peace of the grave under it, and the tranquility in that garden near the Yamuna River.

That's why so many love Taj Mahal. It's the meaning of the building, shape, size, proportions and colours combined. All of them.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #33
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It is interesting to mention that Shah mosque has nоt оnly aesthetic value but also acoustic, there is a black square under the dome of the mosque, if you stand there and produce a sound, this sound will echo loudly seven times throughout the whole mosque, it is called a 500 years old loudspeaker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh47SgmNbVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McI2Qm888Qs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSyidFbFtA

A singer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTyc4btTDco
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Old August 17th, 2012, 08:03 AM   #34
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Hi Cyrus. The pics you posted here are very beautiful. In addition to that I like the angle and style of the photos taken of these two beautiful ancient monuments of the world. Now regarding the comparison of these two architectures, firstly I would like to say that endless efforts and hard works had been put upon these two monuments to make them look so good that the world may see them with wide eyes. However I also would also like to say that the two mile stone things for the Taj Mahal are firstly it is symmetrical and the secondly it has been completely built with pure marbles whereas these things do not cope up with Shah Mosque.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #35
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Both Taj Mahal and Shah Mosque have been built with brick but one of them was covered with white marble and another one with mosaic tiles, of course as I said there is a big difference between simple marbles and those mosaic tiles, Shah mosque really shows a mixture of art and architecture.

It is interesting to read this thing about "Sheik Lotf Allah Mosque", a smaller mosque beside Shah Mosque in Isfahan: http://torkzadeh.com/ali/node/510



“The mind could not create such beauty,” says art historian Abdulreza Soleimani, at the mihrab, inside Sheik Lotf Allah Mosque, Isfahan, Iran.

“Do you see this little turquoise piece,” says my guide, art historian Abdulreza Soleimani. “How many of pieces like this one do you think there are just on this wall?”

He’s pointing to a piece perhaps one by two centimeters, one of the thousands upon thousands of slices of tile, larger and smaller, cut into odd shapes and put together like pieces of puzzle.

It’s called “moaragh”—the art of creating breathtaking mosaics by putting together odd-shaped pieces.

We’re standing inside the Sheik Lotf Allah Mosque, one of the components of the world-renowned Naghsh-i Jahan Square in Isfahan, Iran. The sheik taught students from the very spot we stood—the mihrab—overlooking the 20-by-20 meter room around us. The tile walls led to the dome towering above, perhaps 30 meters high.



One shot couldn’t do it justice. I keep going back and back and back to show the enormity of what surrounds me.

“Now,” Soleimani continues, “how do you suppose the artistan of 500 years ago put these pieces together without the aid of any modern technology, no computers, nothing?

“And he did it almost as fast as the hand could move,” and Soleimani starts slapping his hand up and down the wall like he’s trying to catch a crawling insect.

He did it that fast? I ask incredulously. How could he?

“He did it because he was not relying on his mind; the mind could never create such beauty.

“These men where in an irfani state of mind, something you might call a trance. Man can bring himself to such places in spirituality that the self is eliminated; the mind ceases to make decisions, and the heart takes over.

“Like Abu-Said Abul Khair prayed, as he was about to address a crowd waiting outside the mosque, ‘God, make it so Abu-Said is gone; that they hear not me, but you.’

“Don’t be surprised. We are surprised because we’re not connected to that mentality.

“Back then they lived in a kind of harmony between mankind, nature and architecture. Thus they were far closer to God.

“Therefore, for them the creation of such structures, so much beauty, was not fantastic; it was normal.

“You and I stand around in awe. We’re flabbergasted; we can’t comprehend. But that’s because we’re cut off from that culture. We’re lost our connection to the realm they lived in.”
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Old September 6th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #36
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What I personally like of the Taj is that it's colour changes during the day and night, not to mention it being a symbol of love for many couples.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 03:11 AM   #37
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The intricate and symmetrical early-to-mid 17th Century Mughal (Indo-Persian style) architecture and poetry on white marble is an unmatched 17th Century wonder!

Some pictures from wikipedia of this unmatched medieval wonder:-



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/TajJoli1.jpg



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Cenotaphs3.jpg



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iPiercwork.jpg



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Jali-inlay.jpg



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erior_Hall.jpg
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Old September 7th, 2012, 03:17 AM   #38
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A few more of the Wonder:-


source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rsian_poem.jpg



source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...werCloseUp.jpg
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Old September 7th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #39
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A labour force of twenty thousand workers was recruited across northern India. The construction began around 1632 and was completed around 1653, taking 22 years and employing thousands of artisans and craftsmen.

Can you imagine the engineering involved in moving those enormous slabs of marble to the construction site and then hoisting them up?!

A fifteen kilometre (9.3 mi) tamped-earth ramp was built to transport marble and materials to the construction site and teams of twenty or thirty oxen pulled the blocks on specially constructed wagons. An elaborate post-and-beam pulley system was used to raise the blocks into desired position. Water was drawn from the river by a series of purs, an animal-powered rope and bucket mechanism, into a large storage tank and raised to a large distribution tank. It was passed into three subsidiary tanks, from which it was piped to the complex.
The plinth and tomb took roughly 12 years to complete.

The Taj Mahal was constructed using materials from all over India and Asia and over 1,000 elephants were used to transport building materials. The translucent white marble was brought from Makrana, Rajasthan, the jasper from Punjab, jade and crystal from China. The turquoise was from Tibet and the Lapis lazuli from Afghanistan, while the sapphire came from Sri Lanka and the carnelian from Arabia. In all, twenty eight types of precious and semi-precious stones were inlaid into the white marble.


Sculptors from Bukhara, calligraphers from Syria, Persia and northern India, inlayers from southern India, stonecutters from Baluchistan, a specialist in building turrets, another who carved only marble flowers were part of the thirty-seven men who formed the creative unit.

Some of the builders involved in construction of Taj Mahal were:
Ismail Afandi (a.k.a. Ismail Khan) of the Ottoman Empire — Turkish architect, designer of the main dome.

Ustad Isa (Isa Muhammad Effendi) of Persia — Turkish architect, trained by Koca Mimar Sinan Agha of the Ottoman Empire and frequently credited with a key role in the architectural design.

'Puru' from Benarus — has been mentioned as a supervising architect.

Qazim Khan, a native of Lahore – cast the solid gold finial.

Chiranjilal, a lapidary from Delhi — the chief sculptor and mosaicist.

Amanat Khan from Shiraz, Iran — the chief calligrapher.

Muhammad Hanif — a supervisor of masons.

To help control the pollution, the Indian government has set up the Taj Trapezium Zone (TTZ), a 10,400-square-kilometre (4,000 sq mi) area around the monument where strict emissions standards are in place monitored by UNESCO.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal

There is no construction in the world that could match this during that era.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #40
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Taj Mahal - like no other man-made construction in history!

It's construction story (mentioned in previous page) is as astounding as its beauty.
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