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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #61
Kanto
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I think me and classicrock have made a sufficiently good system to measure roof height of any building and I bet it can be perfected even more
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Old May 18th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #62
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I still think that architectural height is better. It´s just simpler.
But I´m glad to see you´re trying to find better one.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #63
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It DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS FAIR OR NOT. If a spire is taller than 50% of a building, it is just a bullshit to count it to the height. Even 20% is more than too much! And there are buildings that have even taller spire on them than the building itself. It does not matter if it has a purpose or if it is some design thing, as somebody said before, thin metal stick is thin metal stick, not a building. I think the system guys here developed is better than excellent.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singoone View Post
I still think that architectural height is better. It´s just simpler.
But I´m glad to see you´re trying to find better one.
Here is the reason why their ranking doesn't work

All credit goes to SBARN for the original version of this photo




People don't realize that we are starting to get here, the Federation Tower in Russia has a roof of 360 meters, but the spire pushes it to 506 meters!!! - notice how the Sears massive antennae's don't count, even when the Petronas extremely thin spires count



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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondro View Post
It DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS FAIR OR NOT. If a spire is taller than 50% of a building, it is just a bullshit to count it to the height. Even 20% is more than too much! And there are buildings that have even taller spire on them than the building itself. It does not matter if it has a purpose or if it is some design thing, as somebody said before, thin metal stick is thin metal stick, not a building. I think the system guys here developed is better than excellent.
We would have to repeat the whole thread all over again. So read it from the beginning and answer in context if you have any doubts.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
So read it from the beginning
I have
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #67
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so...
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #68
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Don't you see that my post is reply to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by singoone View Post
Yes, you're right but spire is design element whether antenna is not. So it should not be counted. I agree it isn't fair but I still don't see better way to measure hight of the buildings since it's hard to recognise where the roof of plenty of buildings is.
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so...
...So how can it be "off the context"?
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #69
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ehhhmm here are some problems we discussed in quick short. I thought this topic is quite complete

- burj khalifa problem and it's "virtual" top height
- mekka tower - the same as above
- other future towers that we can't predict and which would destroy any complicated system
- the naming of architectural height and its meaning
- the alternative systems - you should read both propositions from Kanto and iloveclassicrock7 which in mind of me and some others turned out as most complicated and vague thing anybody could came up with.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
ehhhmm here are some problems we discussed in quick short. I thought this topic is quite complete

- burj khalifa problem and it's "virtual" top height
- mekka tower - the same as above
- other future towers that we can't predict and which would destroy any complicated system
- the naming of architectural height and its meaning
- the alternative systems - you should read both propositions from Kanto and iloveclassicrock7 which in mind of me and some others turned out as most complicated and vague thing anybody could came up with.
Quote:
I thought this topic is quite complete
Your kidding me right ? Most of the people have agreed with me and Kanto, do you automatically think that your opinion is better then all of our's ?

Don't judge our measurement system yet, it's brand new, give us some time to figure things out. Also, I have said that the Burj Khalifa is 828 meters by my measurement.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:54 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondro View Post
Don't you see that my post is reply to this?




...So how can it be "off the context"?
Just ignore him, he seems to be a CTBUH follower, and his mind clearly can't be changed.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 04:29 AM   #72
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Just wondering would you guys count Federation Tower's spire as a height?



It's not just a "spire" but will serve as a purpose for elevators plus a stairwell.
anyway I was still wondering what you guys thought of it.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Earth View Post
Just wondering would you guys count Federation Tower's spire as a height?



It's not just a "spire" but will serve as a purpose for elevators plus a stairwell.
anyway I was still wondering what you guys thought of it.
Quote:
but will serve as a purpose for elevators plus a stairwell.
The big tube part of it is really part of the building, but it cuts off at about the height of the top roof, and then it's just a spire. So we would count to the top of the highest roof.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 05:37 AM   #74
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Here is how it would work. Also, based off of my rules, the Pingan tower would probably get the full height, and maybe the Chrysler building.

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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
Your kidding me right ? Most of the people have agreed with me and Kanto, do you automatically think that your opinion is better then all of our's ?

Don't judge our measurement system yet, it's brand new, give us some time to figure things out. Also, I have said that the Burj Khalifa is 828 meters by my measurement.
You seem to be measuring how good your systems are by how many people agreed with you I never used that argument because I don't give two flying ****s about it, I just know I use reasonable arguments. Mostly I see people who agree with you, are people getting to the subject emotionally and who stop arguing and pulling out as fast as they are shown there is so many things wrong with the systems. Actually there is just you and Kanto who still push it forward. Look at the singoone - he looks like a very reasonable and calm guy But if you wish to play who_agree_with_me the game then ok. In the group of people who finds ctbuh standards the simplest and most reasonable to use you can find guys like moderator Vito Corleone who often provides us with exclusive insights to worlds largest projects. He is clearly professional working in the business. The other one Otie, best, most professional 3d illustrator on these forums. Then we have Fury "numbers guy" There is nobody on this forum who would follow and analyze project so thoroughly. But this is stupid you know. Just convince me you can came up with something as simple as the system that is used now. I thought you guys were so happy with your system and now you are telling me again that burj and pingang should be measured full (oh Kanto will be angry )

So I'm waiting for actual (simple) system. Because now there is no any. Just you choosing by yourself how each of the building should be measured.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 10:33 AM   #76
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Partykus is right and a really wonder how can you count PingAn´s spire? And Taipei´s? It´s just spires you know and there can not be such exceptions in measuring system. Even Chrysler building got a "steel stick" on the top and you would count it just because it´s artdeco icon or first supertall - it would not be without the "stick".

"The tallest building" you showed us at New York 2012 pic is total nonsence. The spire or antenna or whatever is clearly more than 50% of the building height so it would´not be counted and who would ever build such a crap? It just look ridiculous. That´s excessive...

And here is one paragraph from CTBUH article about 1WTC.

The CTBUH includes spires in its height measurement to “architectural top,” the primary category in ranking the tallest buildings in the world. But antennas, masts, water towers and other functional-technical structures – which often are not designed by the architect of the building and change according to prevalent technologies – are not included in the height measurement to the architectural top.

This paragraph and mainly the underlined sentence should you give the reason why is this system the best one.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #77
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The fame of the tallest building or a supertall/megatall is the celebration of engineering and construction skills of humanity which is able to raise an actual living space into a height that can compete with the forces of nature and, ultimately, defy them. It is about the complexity and technological and constructional marvels. Raising metal sticks is not constructional, nor technological marvel, anyone can raise whatever tall metal stick on their rooftop!

And no, in my opinion, Chrysler bldg should NOT count the stick height in! For me, the first and only supertall from the first half of 20th cent is ESB. The Chrysler stick was raised just to take the fame of the tallest building before the ESB could be completed, it was the same kind of cheating that we experience today. Learn some history!
Plus, the ESB's height is not just some stick, the top floor inside the "spire" or whatever you call it, was designed and built to dock airship! Now thats what I call the TRUE MARVEL!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #78
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Yeah, well thats just blathering. Show me alternative to architectural height (and how to call it) and I will show you it simply doesn't work. As said many times it doesn't have to be fair, but clear and not confusing. Nobody's life depends on this. And also as mentioned there are several measuring techniques available. It's just that architectural height is simply what it is - architectural height. Dig it?
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #79
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Yes, it is just blathering. Because the real achievement is the metal stick.

Look at your logic. If i grew 2m tall hair and used a gell to form it into a shape of a spire, I would be the tallest human! And it would be completely legit, becuase the hair is part of me, it has purpose of design and we can call it "architectural", because, whatever you believe if god, gods, nature or some alien that constructed the first living thing, made us with hair! What you count to a human's height? The hair or the top of his head?

And if I built a 200m tall house in 1932 and added a 200m tall metal stick on top of it, I would exceed the ESB's height and I would be the one with the tallest skyscraper!

Now tell me, that this makes sense.
I am just waiting to you to come up wit an argument of the gothic and baroque churches' spire...

Not everything simple is true and right, the real life is more complicated and harder than you think. Just because you can not put every building into one bag, inspired or boxy or pyramidal, they are cases that should be treated separately. Just as you can not say that a gothic church is the same as ESB.

edit: no, I don't agree with Pignan and Taipei to count the spire into the height.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #80
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That was quite entertaining Really, no offense intended I truly smiled

To answer your question, yes if your hair would stand always in all conditions to certain height without any gel or anything since we are measuring only human then you could call yourself 2m height but it will never be true because thing as simple as wearing cap or high wind makes you lower. Anyways it's not the best example since nobody is running an database of height of all people
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