daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Skyscrapers

Skyscrapers General news, discussion and announcement forum about skyscrapers, including the Skyscraper Living forum



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 20th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #121
Dimethyltryptamine
Registered User
 
Dimethyltryptamine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12,883
Likes (Received): 6445

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
I believe that the 60 storey Trump Tower would be taller, but I'm not sure about that. Definitely though, 1 Bloor and Aura (both under construction) will have taller usable floors.

You seem to be drawing a delineation between residential and office towers. The term "Supertall" is for all buildings, and makes no differentiation as to their use.
Well the roof height of Q1 is 245m (and 235m for highest floor), so depending on where you want to measure to, they're either equal in height or Q1 is slightly taller.

Also I'm aware that any building could be called a supertall, but I was talking about a residential buildings in that instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
Anything is possible, so sometimes it is good to think about things in a theoretical manner.

P.S. adding **** to everything doesn't make you sound smarter, you are also making it a little to obvious that you are jealous of Toronto. Have some respect next time...
I'm not jealous of Toronto in the slightest - I didn't even start the Q1 vs. FCP debate. As for adding ****, I really don't care, you asked me to pick which building is taller, trying to make a point when both are stupid and far from reality.
Dimethyltryptamine no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 20th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #122
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 70,969
Likes (Received): 12195

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimethyltryptamine View Post
Well the roof height of Q1 is 245m (and 235m for highest floor), so depending on where you want to measure to, they're either equal in height or Q1 is slightly taller.
.
No one I know in the Toronto forums considers the "spire" at the top of the Trump Tower to be part of its real height. To the top of that spire is 282 metres, so I am pretty sure the highest usable floor is well above the 235 metre level. However, I would just call it a "skyscraper", personally, and nothing more even if they had stretched up the "spire" another 18 metres (which thankfully they did not). Scaffolding is still around the hat/scoop/spire at the top, and should be coming off soon.



The white tower in the foreground is the FCP building that was built at 298 metres to the roof, decades before the 300 metre designation of a supertall was established.
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #123
Dimethyltryptamine
Registered User
 
Dimethyltryptamine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12,883
Likes (Received): 6445

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Here all buildings are counted to spire, and spire only.. but we have a lot of buildings with spires/fins/etc. I guess it's something you get used to, and we're going to have to agree to disagree.

And re: FCP, yeah it's a bit of bad luck that it just didn't quite make its way in. Eureka is in the same boat - though build 30 years later, when the 300m supertall rule was well and truly alive.
Dimethyltryptamine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #124
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

iloveclassicrock7 I obviously misunderstood you. So which measuring system would be primary to list 100 tallest buildigns for instance. There can't be two rankings obviously And still buildings on the middle of the chart ordered with you system even "visually" looks taller than those on the middle left and there are not even anntennas in this chart. There is definatelly "hill" on the trend.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #125
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Many arguments that you made against roof height are doublebladed. You ask how will I explain that a Khalifa with a taller spire is equal to a normal Khalifa, but I ask how will you explain that Petronas Towers are taller than the Willis Tower? Also, you say that CTBUH provides the numbers to determine that Willis is the taller structure, but we would provide the numbers to determine that the taller Khalifa is a taller structure than the normal Khalifa, so again it is doublebladed.

Btw, I disagree that Kingdom Tower and Burj Khalifa should be measured to their pinnacle. In my opinion they should be measured only 'til they start being less than 9 meters wide, as seen on my latest diagram. I will repost it and post a diagram of other buildings later today
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #126
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Many arguments that you made against roof height are doublebladed. You ask how will I explain that a Khalifa with a taller spire is equal to a normal Khalifa, but I ask how will you explain that Petronas Towers are taller than the Willis Tower?
I just did some pages ago. And everything is clear and precise in the explanation. Now explain how heigher burj is lover than a lover one Which is less confusing? Differentiation of structures from buildings (which is easy because antennas are easly distinguishable), than complicated system of calculating virtual base of the spire which can easly led to the situations when one clearly taller building is marked lower without even presence of any antennas in two buildings.

You see Kanto. The conclusion here is that ctbuh standards are not always fair (but in most cases they are) but simple and clear. What you want them to be replaced with is system that is still not fair in all cases but in addition is much more complicated and vague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Btw, I disagree that Kingdom Tower and Burj Khalifa should be measured to their pinnacle. In my opinion they should be measured only 'til they start being less than 9 meters wide, as seen on my latest diagram. I will repost it and post a diagram of other buildings later today
Well that's something you have to address to iloveclassicrock7 not me. As I said with complicated systems the problem is that you won't even be able to choose one
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


Last edited by patrykus; May 20th, 2012 at 01:37 PM.
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #127
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

I don't think the system is that confusing. Though I will try to make it clearer and simpler to understand. As I said before, it's a work in progress, so imperfections are still possible, although I think it already is vastly superior to CTBUH's official height

Btw, if you have any other theoretical examples which you think could lead to a failure of my system, please post them. Peer review is necessary when creating a system like this
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #128
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

first make it not confusing for burj-burj excample.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #129
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

I already did that
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #130
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

where?
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:32 PM   #131
bild tall!
Registered User
 
bild tall!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: den haag
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 15

i dont think that spires must count whit the height of a building.
let say you have only a spire whit out a structure then its only a spire so no need to count that.
but if a spire is building up whit the building itself so people can go higher then its part of the building itself and it needs to be counted for.
greetz.
bild tall! no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #132
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
where?
In this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
In the case of a Burj Khalifa-like building the roof is the spot above which there is no occupied floor and above which all has a maximal dimension of 9 meters or 30 feet. I can't determine where that is from your pic, cause there is no grid behind those buildings like on the original SSP diagram which could give me a reference of how much milimeters 9 meters in that pic are. They look they are identical in width but the right one has a longer spire so I would say they are equally tall in roof height (primary height measurement) and differently tall in pinnacle height (secondary height measurement

More examples please

Also, I'd have an example for you: Which of these is the tallest and which is the shortest?

__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #133
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

You just explained it but didn't make any less confusing.

In this picture building on the right is still lower by your standards. And I can't realy say by just looking at it where it starts being 9m in diameter or less. Athough I can easly determine where antenna at sears starts.

__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #134
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Yeah, well, determining where the spire on Khalifa starts with the naked eye is hard. but that is a fact with which we must learn to live if we don't want to measure only pinnacle height. Which in my opinion still should be measured
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #135
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

which translates to: "I understand my ideas have flaws as ctbuh ones, and are more confusing and complicated than ctbuh but I still think ctbuh will accept them"

well... ok then
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #136
iloveclassicrock7
Vigilant Citizen
 
iloveclassicrock7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 246

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
which translates to: "I understand my ideas have flaws as ctbuh ones, and are more confusing and complicated than ctbuh but I still think ctbuh will accept them"

well... ok then
My Real Height measurement system gets perfect results, I couldn't be more happy with it.
_
_
_
_




_

_

_

Now, this is what the CTBUH's system gets, very unfair and unequal results. Just look at 1 WTC on the list and everything before it. Look at the buildings before 1 WTC, they are much taller, but apparently nowadays you need to put a spire on every building if you don't want to get passed by a building with a much lower roof, and I am here to change that.







@ Kanto, the Burj and Kingdom count because they are basically a part of the building, they aren't hoisted into place like a spire, they are just an empty part of the building. Even if it was a spire, the beginning of the empty portion, which you are calling a spire, is more then 30 feet wide anyways.

Last edited by iloveclassicrock7; May 20th, 2012 at 07:44 PM.
iloveclassicrock7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #137
iloveclassicrock7
Vigilant Citizen
 
iloveclassicrock7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 246

But, what does everyone think about the results my measurement system gets ?
iloveclassicrock7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #138
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
@ Kanto, the Burj and Kingdom count because they are basically a part of the building, they aren't hoisted into place like a spire, they are just an empty part of the building. Even if it was a spire, the beginning of the empty portion, which you are calling a spire, is more then 30 feet wide anyways.
what about pingan then, it's spire definatively look like a part of building. You don't count it. what about pingan vs abraj, the former definitively looks taler. And again how you decide if building like burj gets its spire counted and building like pingan doesn't?
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #139
iloveclassicrock7
Vigilant Citizen
 
iloveclassicrock7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 246

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
what about pingan then, it's spire definatively look like a part of building. You don't count it. what about pingan vs abraj, the former definitively looks taler. And again how you decide if building like burj gets its spire counted and building like pingan doesn't?
Well I completely understand this concern, I haven't decided on Pingan yet, since I don't know the width of its spire, and it hasn't even gotten out of the ground. I also haven't decided anything on Abraj, but since there are floors in the spire, I technically have to count it as part of the building.
iloveclassicrock7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #140
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

You haven't answered my question By you I meant "Da System" And then again if you count pingan you would also have to count dream tower. The bottom line how the system decide what to count and what not.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu