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Old January 18th, 2016, 01:51 AM   #3681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Santo Amaro will relieve Pinheiros a little, but will become indeed a problematic bottleneck when the rest of Line 5 opens.
And what if said "relief" is irrelevant?

I mean, I don't find it unlikely that the overcrowding at Pinheiros won't get solved, and a new congestion point emerges at Santo Amaro (and looking out of the corner of the eye at Santa Cruz, Chácara Klabin and Paulista/Consolaçâo, which will all increase their passenger numbers after line 5 opens till Chácara Klabin...).

After all, the extension of line 5 will mean that many new passengers will undoutbtedly be attracted to the southern part of lines 5 and 9...

And well, the southern districts of Sâo Paulo are the poorest, hence the most likely to use public transport.

So I don't find it all that unlikely that a "line 3 effect" would happen again. And while Santa Cruz or Chácara Klabin might be able to handle such an effect, I doubt Santo Amaro can handle many more passengers (or eventually Pinheiros).

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They would have to add new staircases.
Is there much room for that?
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Old January 18th, 2016, 03:23 PM   #3682
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Hardly any.
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 07:58 AM   #3683
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Taken from Brazilian transport thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Sao Paulo Metro (CMSP) - Line 15 monorail pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiomazzi View Post
Calma gente, progressos estão ocorrendo na L15, embora alguns não muito evidentes, e segundo informações, não irão parar!

Enquanto "praguejamos" (), olhem só, 20 trens completos, 21º sendo concluído, o "patriarca" canadense está por aqui em testes, e
foi renomeado para 01, e o anterior 01 agora é o 02 pelo que entendi!

Outro detalhe importante, em relação aos trens, que nos passou desapercebido (e que justificaria um puxão de orelha para os
fotógrafos de plantão ..... ..... ), pode ser verificado nas imagens abaixo....

P.S.: As imagens estão num ângulo "esquisito" porque eu esqueci o tripé para estabilização ( x2).

P1210827 by sergiomazzi, no Flickr
P1210828 by sergiomazzi, no Flickr
P1210829 by sergiomazzi, no Flickr
P1210829b by sergiomazzi, no Flickr
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Old February 5th, 2016, 05:34 PM   #3684
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Taken from Brazilian transport thread:

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Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Sao Paulo Metro (CMSP) - Line 5 Moema station update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infraholic View Post
Estação Moema
Imagens feitas agora mesmo por mim.













Acesso Sabiá

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Old February 6th, 2016, 01:06 PM   #3685
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Taking into account the issue of severe overcrowding in the São Paulo Metro, a fantasy scenario would involve the platforms of the stations of, say, Lines 1, 2, and 3 being extended so those lines accommodate eight-car trains (like the CPTM lines and Rio de Janeiro Metro's Line 2) in an attempt to alleviate some of the congestion in the Metro.

In reality, the costs of lengthening the metro stations' platforms would be prohibitive, since most of them are underground, so this scenario would be considered highly unlikely in all likelihood. Because of this, I think all the Sao Paulo Metro trains (the non-monorail/CPTM trains, anyway) should probably stay at six cars, maximum.
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Old February 7th, 2016, 12:13 PM   #3686
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the problem could be solved with higher frequencies.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 10:17 AM   #3687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
the problem could be solved with higher frequencies.
Do you really think we haven't tried that already?
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Old February 8th, 2016, 07:09 PM   #3688
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what are actual frequencies ?
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Old February 8th, 2016, 09:39 PM   #3689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
what are actual frequencies ?
Among the highest on Earth in the morning rush. Like 90 seconds or so on line 3, the busiest.

The main issue is to build new metro lines, only that can reduce the severe overcrowding, as right now, given the HUGE traffic jams, and the small extension of the metro network, sometimes it's better to travel far in the suburbs till the least faraway metro station, because even by doing that, and despite the horrible overcrowding, it'll still take you less time to reach your destination than by driving or taking certain bus lines.

That's why metro extensions are so badly needed.

For instance, new line 6, under construction, will cut the current travel time between Brasilândia and Sâo Joaquim from the current 2h50min to just 23min.


This alone gives you an idea of how awful traffic jams are.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #3690
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=536

Korea to support São Paulo regional rail study
Tuesday, February 09, 2016



THE government of the Brazilian state of São Paulo says it will seek assistance from Korea to develop plans for a network frequent regional services linking the city of São Paulo with surrounding cities

The state is proposing the development of 431km network comprising a north-south corridor from American and Campinas to Santos and an east-west route from Sorocaba to Taubaté. Trains would operate at up to 160km/h with an average speed of 120km/h. The state plans to implement the Reais 20bn ($US 5.1bn) project as a PPP

...
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Old February 9th, 2016, 05:46 PM   #3691
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Funny, today I dreamed I was riding the fast train between Campinas and SP. Must be a good omen!
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Old February 9th, 2016, 06:17 PM   #3692
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But you're from Santos! You should have dreamt you were riding the train between Santos and Sâo Paulo!
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Old February 10th, 2016, 09:28 AM   #3693
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1. If all of the CPTM lines use eight-car trains, then how come Line 8 uses twelve-car trains?

2. Also, is just one car of a CPTM train shorter than one car of an SP metro train, or are both of the aforementioned cars the same length?

3. If Sao Paulo were to constructed taller skyscrapers than what they have now, with a few supertall buildings thrown in (provided that Congonhas Airport closes for good), then I imagine this affecting the congestion on the SP Metro and CPTM, meaning it (the congestion) gets worse than it is now.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 09:39 PM   #3694
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Taken from Brazilian transport thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Sao Paulo Metro (CMSP) - Line 6 gains depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMeier View Post
VSE Tietê embaixo, já em cima presumo que seja o pátio Morro Grande



Via Instagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMeier View Post
Complementando o vídeo do Lauro, uma foto do primeiro shield da Linha 6:



Fonte: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nettun
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Old February 10th, 2016, 11:43 PM   #3695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
1. If all of the CPTM lines use eight-car trains, then how come Line 8 uses twelve-car trains?
It used to. The 6-car trains (class 5000 or 5500) were removed from line 8. Now all trains on line 8 have 8 cars (4+4).

One exception though, the extension of line 8 between Itapevi and Amador Bueno, where class 5000 or 5500 still run, but not coupled (4 cars only), and anyway those were refurbished and two cars were taken away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
2. Also, is just one car of a CPTM train shorter than one car of an SP metro train, or are both of the aforementioned cars the same length?
CPTM trains are longer than CMSP trains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
3. If Sao Paulo were to constructed taller skyscrapers than what they have now, with a few supertall buildings thrown in (provided that Congonhas Airport closes for good), then I imagine this affecting the congestion on the SP Metro and CPTM, meaning it (the congestion) gets worse than it is now.
It depends. If the area in which they were built was already well served by public transport, it could be a problem.

Anyway, one thing must be very clear: whatever happens, overcrowding will continue, or it could even worsen in some cases, even if there are metro or CPTM extensions. That will happen until the metro/commuter rail network (particularly the former) reaches a length capable of absorbing reasonably the masses during the morning rush.

This is why cases like Pinheiros or Santo Amaro stations will continue to happen.

When line 5 opens between Adolfo Pinheiro and Chácara Klabin, Santo Amaro station will get worse, and Santa Cruz and Chácara Klabin stations will get much, much more overcrowded than they are now.
On the other hand, Pinheiros station could maybe be relieved of its overcrowding, but just a little bit and only for a short period of time, until new repressed demand filled it up again.
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Old February 11th, 2016, 08:14 PM   #3696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Among the highest on Earth in the morning rush. Like 90 seconds or so on line 3, the busiest.

The main issue is to build new metro lines, only that can reduce the severe overcrowding, as right now, given the HUGE traffic jams, and the small extension of the metro network, sometimes it's better to travel far in the suburbs till the least faraway metro station, because even by doing that, and despite the horrible overcrowding, it'll still take you less time to reach your destination than by driving or taking certain bus lines.

That's why metro extensions are so badly needed.

For instance, new line 6, under construction, will cut the current travel time between Brasilândia and Sâo Joaquim from the current 2h50min to just 23min.


This alone gives you an idea of how awful traffic jams are.
After your post, I understand that frequencies can't be implemented...
Overcrowding, this is impossible to fix in one of the biggest cities in the world...
I think the only solution is to enlarge the system (and it is happening) to "spread" the flows of people. 90 seconds... mhhh I didn't know that, I'm really surprised about a such frequency!
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Old February 11th, 2016, 11:23 PM   #3697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
After your post, I understand that frequencies can't be implemented...
Overcrowding, this is impossible to fix in one of the biggest cities in the world...
True, but extending the network would help release pressure, first on the road, then, much later, on the trains. That's the theory.

The problem is that Sâo Paulo has grown at a pace that the metro hasn't been able to counterbalance. Every extension was overcrowded from day one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
I think the only solution is to enlarge the system (and it is happening) to "spread" the flows of people.
It is happening, but not fast enough. Sadly politicians aren't helpful.

There are 2 CPTM, 3 monorail and 4 metro line extensions or new lines under construction or advanced planning, and each and every one of them is taking forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
90 seconds... mhhh I didn't know that, I'm really surprised about a such frequency!
The Sâo Paulo metro is one of the best in the world. It must be, as it has such a high patronage, otherwise there would be trouble, and I mean serious political trouble. And even if it's one of the best, it is not a large enough network, and it's not incident-free. In fact sometimes incidents occure out of sheer overcrowding.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #3698
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But you're from Santos! You should have dreamt you were riding the train between Santos and Sâo Paulo!
A train from Sao Paulo to Santos would be amazing, and expensive if they would want it to travel at a competitive speed. You would likely need 20-30km worth of tunnels / viaducts at the very least to keep the grade manageable so commuter trains could run at 100-200kmph. It would make the coast so much more accessible though since right now the traffic jams on holidays and weekends prevent many people from being able to get there. The coast is a great amenity for Sao Paulo residents considering there are hardly any parks or open spaces. It would also make the Santos / Praia Grande / Guaruja area a deffacto suburb of Sao Paulo since people would be able to commute between the two on a regular bases...especially if they telecommute part of the week. A train trip would maybe 30min from Santos to Luz area since you would have no stops between Sao Paulo and Cubatao.

Campinas to Sao Paulo though via Viracopos would be good though. Maybe the new Caicaras airport gets built as well and connected up and Congonhas can close once and for all. You can then connect three major airports by one train and spread the demand.

Last edited by alesmarv; February 12th, 2016 at 06:24 AM.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 11:09 PM   #3699
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Quote:
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There are 2 CPTM, 3 monorail and 4 metro line extensions or new lines under construction or advanced planning, and each and every one of them is taking forever.

What about monorail ?
São Paulo is maybe the city which is investing more in monorail all around the world!
Is it an efficient system for a big city like São Paulo ?
Some details ?
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Old February 12th, 2016, 11:41 PM   #3700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciarrone.eng View Post
What about monorail ?
São Paulo is maybe the city which is investing more in monorail all around the world!
Is it an efficient system for a big city like São Paulo ?
Some details ?
It's not possible to give a fully formed opinion, as only a very short spur of line 15 is in service.

Line 18 hasn't started works yet.

And most of line 15 and all of line 17 are still under construction.
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