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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:47 AM   #481
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Another newspaper map:

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Old July 9th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #482
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Snippet: Anhangabaú station (line 3) totem with background.

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Old July 9th, 2010, 06:14 PM   #483
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Map by forumer Eduardo GJF on how line 2 might look by the end of the decade (its extension after Vila Prudente is currently being called line 15 for bureaucratic reasons):

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Old July 9th, 2010, 07:16 PM   #484
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Line 2 update by Eduardo GJF





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Old July 9th, 2010, 07:17 PM   #485
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continued...



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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Here is a map showing the three monorail lines planned:



None of the three lines cross each other, one is in the north, the other is in the east and the last one in the south, they are represented as lines with a white line inside.

Click here for a full view of the map above.
very interesting!

I have a lot of questions!

Who's technology provider?

is it really cheaper than an elevated metro?
do you have any idea of budgets?

is there a specific thread in Portuguese?
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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Map by forumer Eduardo GJF on how line 2 might look by the end of the decade (its extension after Vila Prudente is currently being called line 15 for bureaucratic reasons):

Any extension planned beyond Vila Madalena station?
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Old July 10th, 2010, 01:53 AM   #488
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Sao Paulo fastest expanding metro??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Another newspaper map:

I follow the development of SP metro since nearly 40 years and it is far a way to be the fastest growing metro in the western world!
it badly needed to be - but can't by Brasil administrations!
since the first years the planning - and more special the financing depends on the Government-terms. To have one Govenor whu ist pushing the metro, than it can be done in just 4 years - see the Orestes Quércia term 1987-91 whu builds the central part of Paulista line. But "opening" in Brasil term means not regular operation! When a Governor opens a new line or section short before ending his term "officially" means sometimes only the inaugural ride. it can be that month' will need to complied the works to be ready for passenger operation!
Line 4 took abot 10 years of discussion and planning before start of construction. Even if a new line is started means not continous construction!
the works were often disrupted in the past because luck of funding!

we will see how it works in the next years!...

and one more notice. The commuter company was merged with the metro comp. This was reason to give the commuter lines Metro line numbers ecalating the network by more than the doubble - from one day to the next.

but giving commuter lines Metro line numbers means not to have there a metro-like frequncy!

I saw many projects anounced over the recent 30 years - and also going down!

Special in subway - all over the country Brasil haves a lot of projects - but most of them are only paper - since decades!
> Metro Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Brasilia and other metro-like commuter projects
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Old July 10th, 2010, 08:10 AM   #489
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I certainly hasnt been the fastest expanding metro in the past 40 years but from now on I believe it will be the great expansion story outside Asia, thats what I mean, but lets wait and see.
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Old July 10th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #490
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And the east side monorail continues to rise....


by Lro AC
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Old July 10th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
very interesting!

I have a lot of questions!

Who's technology provider?

is it really cheaper than an elevated metro?
do you have any idea of budgets?

is there a specific thread in Portuguese?
The technology provider (contractor) has not been decided yet. Contenders seem to be Hitachi and Bombardier, among others.

Yes it is around 20% cheaper and much faster to build than regular elevated heavy rail, but it's main advantage is that is does not create that huge "ceiling" on the streets to support the wide heavy rail tracks, thus visual impact is lower.

The problem is that usually passenger capacity is also lower.

The Brazilian forum has specific threads dedicated to each planned line of the Sao Paulo monorail system, the line pictured here is the one under construction, called provisorily an extension of line 2, its thread can be found here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...002079&page=57
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Old July 11th, 2010, 02:06 AM   #492
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Line 4 - Butantã station update by pa007 (schedule to open by December)











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Old July 11th, 2010, 03:49 AM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro-world View Post
I follow the development of SP metro since nearly 40 years and it is far a way to be the fastest growing metro in the western world!
it badly needed to be - but can't by Brasil administrations!
since the first years the planning - and more special the financing depends on the Government-terms. To have one Govenor whu ist pushing the metro, than it can be done in just 4 years - see the Orestes Quércia term 1987-91 whu builds the central part of Paulista line. But "opening" in Brasil term means not regular operation! When a Governor opens a new line or section short before ending his term "officially" means sometimes only the inaugural ride. it can be that month' will need to complied the works to be ready for passenger operation!
This is the worst side of our administrators. They do things in a idiot way. Fortunately, recently we saw some changes in the planning and construction of lines. We will see in 2011 if the change is consistent or not (the current state administration's governor made some big improvement in the investments, the next governor will make other improvements, but just if his priority was mass transport).

Quote:
Originally Posted by metro-world View Post
Line 4 took abot 10 years of discussion and planning before start of construction. Even if a new line is started means not continous construction!
the works were often disrupted in the past because luck of funding!

we will see how it works in the next years!...
Because lack of funding . Line 4 did not suffered this problem. Its problem was the funding for the start of its construction. The construction was planned to start in 1998, but the financial crisis vanished the start plans away. This was a major problem in the past decade. But now, the major problem is the bureaucracy starting the lines. For the first time in decades, we are constructing more than one line at time. Even without the to-be-consolidated plans, the expansion and the improvements in the metropolitan network is being very big compared with the past 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metro-world View Post
and one more notice. The commuter company was merged with the metro comp. This was reason to give the commuter lines Metro line numbers ecalating the network by more than the doubble - from one day to the next.

but giving commuter lines Metro line numbers means not to have there a metro-like frequncy!
What is metro-like frequency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metro-world View Post
I saw many projects anounced over the recent 30 years - and also going down!

Special in subway - all over the country Brasil haves a lot of projects - but most of them are only paper - since decades!
> Metro Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Brasilia and other metro-like commuter projects
You forgotten Fortaleza. Metrô-Rio, Salvador and Brasilia are not metro-like commuter projects. The lines for Fortaleza and Salvador started the construction at the beginning of this decade (Fortaleza started the construction by the ending of the past decade), by the Federal Government. This lead to lack of funds in the first 5-8 years, and now, with the correct funds, they lack efficient administration (mostly because of the errors of the past, specially with the contracts, but some current administration problems also makes the completion of the lines difficult, and fortunately they are not paralized anymore).
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Old July 11th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago Costa View Post
This is the worst side of our administrators. They do things in a idiot way. Fortunately, recently we saw some changes in the planning and construction of lines. We will see in 2011 if the change is consistent or not (the current state administration's governor made some big improvement in the investments, the next governor will make other improvements, but just if his priority was mass transport).

I wil let me surprise if such fundamental change can be in S.P. ...


Because lack of funding . Line 4 did not suffered this problem. Its problem was the funding for the start of its construction. The construction was planned to start in 1998, but the financial crisis vanished the start plans away. This was a major problem in the past decade. But now, the major problem is the bureaucracy starting the lines. For the first time in decades, we are constructing more than one line at time. Even without the to-be-consolidated plans, the expansion and the improvements in the metropolitan network is being very big compared with the past 20 years.

This is not correct. Line 4 was going out to tenders in May 1994 - then planned to start in 1995 and to have it complied by the End of 1998
But then was planned to have 50 % privately funded which could not reached - so no funding was in place which delayed the start for nearly 10 years.



What is metro-like frequency?
as the first 3 lines - about 2 min. intervalls.



You forgotten Fortaleza. Metrô-Rio, Salvador and Brasilia are not metro-like commuter projects. The lines for Fortaleza and Salvador started the construction at the beginning of this decade (Fortaleza started the construction by the ending of the past decade), by the Federal Government. This lead to lack of funds in the first 5-8 years, and now, with the correct funds, they lack efficient administration (mostly because of the errors of the past, specially with the contracts, but some current administration problems also makes the completion of the lines difficult, and fortunately they are not paralized anymore).
I would not go to much in deep becasue we are her in S.P. and talking on Metro-lines - not commuters which are in Brasil called as Metro (former CBTU systems)
Fortaleza is a middle system between the former CBTU commuter line and new build tunnel but called as Metro.
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Old July 11th, 2010, 07:22 PM   #495
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The problem for Line 4 was the state funding:







So what we see here:

-In 1994, the External Loan Comission (something like this, the original name is Comissão de Financiamento Externo - COFIEX) approved a external loan. The Line 4 was ready to be constructed. But in 1995, the state's budget was broke (that is, in 1994 the state's budget was broke too, so the start of Line 4 was not a real possibility in that time). So no Line 4 for that epoch.

-In 1996, for the first time, there was a search for models that include private participation.

-In 1997, the state and the federal governments made a deal, to solve the financial problem caused by the debt of the state. Meanwhile, the financial model with private participation of Line 4 was being modelled.

-In 1998, the project was presented to External Loan Comission. But the world financial crisis led the Comission to not approve the external loan. This was, until then, the last time Line 4 was close to be constructed.

-In 2000, a new deal about the state's debt was stablished between state and federal governments. Finally, the External Loan Comission approved the external loan, and the state's budget was healthy enough to start the construction.

So in any moment, construction works were disrupted by lack of funding.

Last edited by Tiago Costa; July 11th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #496
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About intervals, Line 2 doesn't have 2 minute intervals yet. Today's interval is close to this, but in recent past, it had 2,5 minutes only in the peak times. Let's see, for example, in 2007:

From monday to saturday:
-Peak: 150 seconds (2,5 minutes)
-Offpeak: 221 seconds (3m41s)
-Maximum: 315 seconds (5m15s)

Saturdays: 321 seconds (5m21s)

Sundays: 321 seconds (5m21s)

So, compared to lines 1 and 3, Line 2's intervals were not so low. And it doesn't needed to be. The demand will determine the best interval to achieve the best offer.

And we didn't compared Line 5, wich intervals goes beyound 3 minutes, and will not go below 2 minutes in the future (when the current expansion will be finished). Nobody dies because this. Even in big systems, like London or Paris, not every line have 2 minute interval on peak times.

CPTM lines are having a heavy transformation on its systems (permanent way, signaling and energy), to allow 3 minute intervals on 3 lines, and to allow 90 second interval on other 3 lines, if necessary (Line 9 already have 3 minute interval, but not on the entire line. Line 11 have 5 minute interval, and lines 7 and 12 will reach 4 minutes on the most important sections in this year). This means that the demand of the lines will determine what interval is good (for some lines, 4 minutes is good, and for other lines, 3 minutes or less is good).
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Old July 12th, 2010, 07:32 AM   #497
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Tamaduateí update by PHCastro:













Tamanduateí Yard





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Old July 12th, 2010, 08:00 PM   #498
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Cofesbra Series 2000 and Series 4400 'Tomato'

Cofesbra Series 2000 and the 7009-12(Q3)

Cofesbras going and returning e voltando


by Lro AC
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Old July 12th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #499
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Line 7 train at Lapa station:



Train at Luz station


by Eduardo GJF
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Old July 13th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #500
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Strange CPTM maintenance vehicles:







by Eduardo GJF
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