Marriott Courtyard and Residence Inn Hotel | 23 fl

[klamedia]

Could have happened but highly unlikely in LA's fractured political system. Fun conspiracy theory though.

[Kenny]

Nice! alright, I'll move this thread to Projects since it has started construction.

[PinkFloyd]

Marriott Hotels to Get Tax Break

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The City Council on Wednesday approved a major tax break for the $172 million Marriott hotel development in South Park planned by Williams/Dame and Associates.

The deal, approved on Wednesday, June 13, functions as a rebate on half the tax revenue the 23-story project will generate over its first 25 years. According to a report by the city’s Chief Legislative Analyst, the rebate, which was supported by area labor unions, will cost the city $21.9 million, adjusted for inflation.

...

LA Downtown News

[slipperydog]

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd

Marriott Hotels to Get Tax Break

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - The City Council on Wednesday approved a major tax break for the $172 million Marriott hotel development in South Park planned by Williams/Dame and Associates.

The deal, approved on Wednesday, June 13, functions as a rebate on half the tax revenue the 23-story project will generate over its first 25 years. According to a report by the city’s Chief Legislative Analyst, the rebate, which was supported by area labor unions, will cost the city $21.9 million, adjusted for inflation.

LA Downtown News

Had to chuckle at this.

[klamedia]

Yeah me too. Shame that we have to be slaves to big business and some folks want to give them even more leverage.

[slipperydog]

Both my congressman and Rachel Maddow tell me we're against giving tax breaks to boost corporate profits...that is unless we can get jobs out of them. It will cost the city's general fund millions of dollars, but who cares what that is. Oh, so that's what we use to maintain our city's streets and parks and helps our overall quality of life? Nah, forget that stuff. To hell with ideology.

WE HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM!!! Okay, just kidding, back to ideology. Hmmm...I have an idea, let's raise taxes on everything else, yeah! To compensate for these wonderful corporate tax breaks, our city's residents will now have to pay higher property taxes, utility taxes, and guess what, now we're going to toll public roadways! Wait, so now you're saying I'm advocating boosting profits for the 1% and burdening the middle class with higher taxes? Oh well, such is the life of a populist.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by slipperydog

Both my congressman and Rachel Maddow tell me we're against giving tax breaks to boost corporate profits...that is unless we can get jobs out of them. It will cost the city's general fund millions of dollars, but who cares what that is. Oh, so that's what we use to maintain our city's streets and parks and helps our overall quality of life? Nah, forget that stuff. To hell with ideology.

WE HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM!!! Okay, just kidding, back to ideology. Hmmm...I have an idea, let's raise taxes on everything else, yeah! To compensate for these wonderful corporate tax breaks, our city's residents will now have to pay higher property taxes, utility taxes, and guess what, now we're going to toll public roadways! Wait, so now you're saying I'm advocating boosting profits for the 1% and burdening the middle class with higher taxes? Oh well, such is the life of a populist.

not a big fan of these subsidies... but if im not mistaken, if this project didnt happen, there would be zero money coming in. with the subsidy, the project gets built and the city gets 50% of what it would without the subsidy. seems like the subsidy allows the project to move forward, gets money into the city general fund and puts people to work

[slipperydog]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

not a big fan of these subsidies... but if im not mistaken, if this project didnt happen, there would be zero money coming in. with the subsidy, the project gets built and the city gets 50% of what it would without the subsidy. seems like the subsidy allows the project to move forward, gets money into the city general fund and puts people to work

Of course. But that's why blind ideology is just stupid. The fact is that by incentivizing developers to build, you put people to work, which...wait for it...CREATES JOBS!!! But no, if it happens to be an incentive to a corporation that creates non-union jobs, us unions don't care, we will classify that tax break as simply lining the pockets of those greedy 1%.

[klamedia]

Originally Posted by slipperydog

Both my congressman and Rachel Maddow tell me we're against giving tax breaks to boost corporate profits...that is unless we can get jobs out of them. It will cost the city's general fund millions of dollars, but who cares what that is. Oh, so that's what we use to maintain our city's streets and parks and helps our overall quality of life? Nah, forget that stuff. To hell with ideology.

WE HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM!!! Okay, just kidding, back to ideology. Hmmm...I have an idea, let's raise taxes on everything else, yeah! To compensate for these wonderful corporate tax breaks, our city's residents will now have to pay higher property taxes, utility taxes, and guess what, now we're going to toll public roadways! Wait, so now you're saying I'm advocating boosting profits for the 1% and burdening the middle class with higher taxes? Oh well, such is the life of a populist.

Rambling and indecipherable.

[klamedia]

Originally Posted by slipperydog

Of course. But that's why blind ideology is just stupid. The fact is that by incentivizing developers to build, you put people to work, which...wait for it...CREATES JOBS!!! But no, if it happens to be an incentive to a corporation that creates non-union jobs, us unions don't care, we will classify that tax break as simply lining the pockets of those greedy 1%.

Why so much hate for unions? Unions are behind the reason that you're able to sit at your computer, comfortably typing out hatred for unions. You could be clocking in your 50th hour in a single week in some dark coal mine in Kentucky with no overtime pay and no medical coverage.
In reality, we all want Downtown LA to be a vibrant and fun place to be. Unfortunately because of the natural limitations of the market, the city must give developers incentives to come down and build in an undesirable area. That's called government at work. If we'd waited for the market to eventually come downtown we could be talking 50 years from now and not now. Or OTOH it may have already happened. The unpredictability of market forces may work well for folks already in an advantaged position but not those in a disadvantaged one.

[slipperydog]

Originally Posted by klamedia

Rambling and indecipherable.

Ah, correct! You've just perfectly described these typical left-wing talking points

Originally Posted by klamedia

Why so much hate for unions? Unions are behind the reason that you're able to sit at your computer, comfortably typing out hatred for unions. You could be clocking in your 50th hour in a single week in some dark coal mine in Kentucky with no overtime pay and no medical coverage.

The concept behind a union is a great thing, and it certainly started out as a respectable mechanism to ensure the working conditions of laborers. But the days of the epidemic criminal mistreatment of laborers that you refer to are long gone. Unfortunately these days, many unions have turned into rampant machines who do not have the simple welfare of workers in mind, but rather choke both employers and taxpayers with their outrageous demands like free healthcare and free retirement, vitriolic hate speech, and who essentially bribe elected officials with workers' union dues to ensure that the cycle continues unimpeded and unchecked.

[klamedia]

Originally Posted by slipperydog

Ah, correct! You've just perfectly described these typical left-wing talking points



The concept behind a union is a great thing, and it certainly started out as a respectable mechanism to ensure the working conditions of laborers. But the days of the epidemic criminal mistreatment of laborers that you refer to are long gone. Unfortunately these days, many unions have turned into rampant machines who do not have the simple welfare of workers in mind, but rather choke both employers and taxpayers with their outrageous demands like free healthcare and free retirement, vitriolic hate speech, and who essentially bribe elected officials with workers' union dues to ensure that the cycle continues unimpeded and unchecked.

I wouldn't say many unions, I would say that some unions may not be working in the full interest of their due payers but are still necessary. Just as I wouldn't say all business, but some business would return to "the days of the epidemic criminal mistreatment of laborers" if unions were removed and the regulations and demands that they've accomplished to be put in place. Just as business and "free market" capitalism will be the rule of thumb in this country for some time, so there needs to be a 'mechanism' that can suppress the instinctive greed of a capitalist who is forever attempting to increase the profit margin at any cost.
I think that you and I surprisingly agree at least half-heartedly on something.

[slipperydog]

Remember that my original comment was just me making fun (at the basic, rudimentary level) of local labor unions for supporting a corporate tax break. Let me also emphasize that in no way does my opinion regarding the general behavior of unions today lead me to the conclusion that unions should be eliminated altogether. No sir.

[pesto]

Union mythology is probably too deeply invested to be gotten rid of, but the good news is that their influence is fading on all fronts. Note what happened in Wisc, where memebership in the state employees unions became non-mandatory and membership dropped in half in spite of unions from throughout the country saturating the state with money and workers urging the recall of the guys who was opposing them.

Hopefully, unions will be assigned some issues relating to health and safety in the workplace or helping members with social issues and gotten out of time and pay issues; that way those who want long hours (who are many) can work them and get themselves rich the way that small business owners and professionals can do. The laggards will always want the short-hours, simple tasks, etc. Skilled and ambitious workmen don't.

You worry about "50 hour" weeks? I can't remember a successful business person who has EVER worked a week that short. And you might talk to real working people who are generally happy to work 50 hour weeks rather than the zero hour weeks that union wages and government deficits pretty much guarantee.

[klamedia]

Sounds like the all too familiar "personal initiative" goobleegook to me. As if we live in a meritocracy.....or ever have.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by klamedia

Sounds like the all too familiar "personal initiative" goobleegook to me. As if we live in a meritocracy.....or ever have.

Oh, but we do, and millions of people come here every decade to prove it right. It's amazing to see how many of the rich and superrich in Silicon Valley came here as refugees or dirt poor farmers, were on welfare, came from working families, etc. Same for small business owners: they're usually below middle class and still self-conscious about their lack of "culture" and formal education (but damn sure they're kids are getting it).

You shouldn't confuse "merit" with "scores on a test"; that just proves you have some basic skills. The real "merit" is working your balls off to solve a customer's problem and get your product or service done right. Crying in the middle of the night because your so tired and depressed about failure, but giving it another try. This isn't metaphorical, this is literally true for many entrepreneurs.

It doesn't just happen: America's "meritocracy" are hustlers, dreamers, schemers, guys who won't quit. There are a lot of people here that may not like them, but that's their prerogative. Just let them do their thing and makes us all richer.

Good rule of thumb: laws that encourage people not to work, not to try harder, not to be bold, should be looked at very carefully.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by klamedia

Could have happened but highly unlikely in LA's fractured political system. Fun conspiracy theory though.

Could have happened? If it it didn't, one of the govt. relations guys for AEG wouild be fired. This is their job. Every meeting; every committee; 24/7. Unimaginable that the govt. relations people of a large company wouldn't know on a first name basis every elected official and the relevant senior appointed ones in the town they're in.

[klamedia]

Originally Posted by pesto

Could have happened? If it it didn't, one of the govt. relations guys for AEG wouild be fired. This is their job. Every meeting; every committee; 24/7. Unimaginable that the govt. relations people of a large company wouldn't know on a first name basis every elected official and the relevant senior appointed ones in the town they're in.

You don't work for AEG so therefore you don't know what's going on in their board meetings. This is not the O'Reily Factor. You are speculating. I gave you an out. Take it.

[klamedia]

Originally Posted by pesto

Oh, but we do, and millions of people come here every decade to prove it right. It's amazing to see how many of the rich and superrich in Silicon Valley came here as refugees or dirt poor farmers, were on welfare, came from working families, etc. Same for small business owners: they're usually below middle class and still self-conscious about their lack of "culture" and formal education (but damn sure they're kids are getting it).

You shouldn't confuse "merit" with "scores on a test"; that just proves you have some basic skills. The real "merit" is working your balls off to solve a customer's problem and get your product or service done right. Crying in the middle of the night because your so tired and depressed about failure, but giving it another try. This isn't metaphorical, this is literally true for many entrepreneurs.

It doesn't just happen: America's "meritocracy" are hustlers, dreamers, schemers, guys who won't quit. There are a lot of people here that may not like them, but that's their prerogative. Just let them do their thing and makes us all richer.

Good rule of thumb: laws that encourage people not to work, not to try harder, not to be bold, should be looked at very carefully.

Hmmm....sounds like you're intoxicated with the spiked kool-aid but I hope not. If you took your own line of reasoning seriously, that would mean that you believe that every person who isn't rich just didn't "try hard enough". You wouldn't say that, would you? Because then you would be assuming that we're working with a 'level playing field' and that would mean that you have some daft misconceptions of the true essence of this country. I'll just give you credit beforehand, that couldn't be what you're concluding.

[slipperydog]

Originally Posted by klamedia

Hmmm....sounds like you're intoxicated with the spiked kool-aid but I hope not. If you took your own line of reasoning seriously, that would mean that you believe that every person who isn't rich just didn't "try hard enough". You wouldn't say that, would you? Because then you would be assuming that we're working with a 'level playing field' and that would mean that you have some daft misconceptions of the true essence of this country. I'll just give you credit beforehand, that couldn't be what you're concluding.

That's your word, not his.

The wistful notions of a true 'level playing field' are what caused some of the most horrifying human catastrophes in the history of this planet. It's not, nor ever will be, attainable.