River St Serviced Apartments | 42 fl | 125m | App - Page 2

Lookin Up · May 22nd, 2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retroscient

What are the prospects of this getting financing?

Crossing my fingers, arms, legs, toes, eyes...

The most (maybe 'only') relevant post on this thread.

Don't get your hopes up.

Despite everything else, this is the big issue in our world of larger scale development (unless you're in London - external factors related to the world/eu economy).

In the 'not London' stakes, it's only really Manchester that has a half chance but even then I wouldn't hold my breath.
A severe lack of confidence pervades.

Would be happy to be proved wrong and see this horrible concrete skeleton dealt with, at such an important gateway into the city centre.

Cherguevara · May 22nd, 2012, 12:44 AM

It does seem very much to be a solution in search of a market, which makes me doubtful of its financial viability. I think there is money to be made in providing rental housing for young professionals in the city centre but I doubt it would justify a building of this scale when there is so much empty land in Castlefield/Salford/Ancoats.

Chorltonred · May 22nd, 2012, 11:07 AM

Well according to Companies House the development company is owned by the chap who owns this business, which seems respectable:

http://www.hpcplc.co.uk/home.asp

May be he has some money to play with.

Ian Curtis is his name (really!)

madferret · May 22nd, 2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

It does seem very much to be a solution in search of a market, which makes me doubtful of its financial viability. I think there is money to be made in providing rental housing for young professionals in the city centre but I doubt it would justify a building of this scale when there is so much empty land in Castlefield/Salford/Ancoats.

Yes, I thought that when I read the bit about "the flexible and affordable accommodation that Manchester needs". Is this going to be affordable in Beetham tower terms or will it reflect its location, adjoining student land and Hulme?

uklad1979 · May 22nd, 2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madferret

Yes, I thought that when I read the bit about "the flexible and affordable accommodation that Manchester needs". Is this going to be affordable in Beetham tower terms or will it reflect its location, adjoining student land and Hulme?

It is going to be short/medium term serviced appartments so it will be between renting a city centre appartment and a hotel stay. Your comparing long term lets.
We have a lot of these in Abu Dhabi and the prices varys depending on how long you stay, the longer the cheaper as you are guaranteed the rooms are filled.

If it is going to be the same concept I imagine they are aimed at people staying less than a year and will be furnished with weekly cleaning services. If that is the case they generally cost about 10% more than a flat which is unfurnished per month but the attraction is they are furnished and your not tied in for a year. Usually this kind of price is if you stay more than a month. If you stay a week or a few nights they are a little cheaper than a 4* but without the service which is traded for having your own home away from home.

GShutty · May 22nd, 2012, 06:18 PM

I guess this plot is fairly close to First St, so the 1st St. regeneration ripple effect is perhaps starting to happen? It will certainly enhance the area whilst underway and towards completion and hopefully more will follow, especially if they are like this.

Lookin Up · May 22nd, 2012, 07:06 PM

Any mention of a height on this?
I guess 40 floors of resi, top of my head, around the 120 to 125m mark - easily the city's second highest. But like others (17NWS, CIS) this too would be built in a dip and it's skyline impact would be less than you would think. Something like this on the higher ground around Piccadilly would make a real skyline impact.

If anyone goes down to the public consultation, there's only one question worth asking them: ''do you have funding in place for this?''
If they don't, they might struggle to get planning. Is it not now MCC policy only to approve tower schemes that can demonstrate a route to funding?

Meadows · May 22nd, 2012, 07:38 PM

I counted 42 floors on that render, but I don't know the height. It'll probably be the 2nd biggest yeah.

jrb · May 22nd, 2012, 10:44 PM

The things is.

The new breed of Nouveau Riche and Oligarch estate and letting agents in the city centre are crying out for new apartments to built.("Sorry, we've go no flats for sale or to let ATM.")

As it stands sealed bids and gazumping is once again rife in the city centre apartment market, if what is being reported is true?

It's obvious the BBC Lovies and the young media professionals flooding into the city are fueling this...... And still they come.

So which property developer is going to be brave and is going to reap the rewards of the iPhone and iPAD generation?

Urabn Splash took the prize last time, but they are so middle aged now. It's time for a new kid on the River Street block

Seasonedbest · May 22nd, 2012, 10:53 PM

Looks like it could be similar to this proposal in Leicester.

http://www.iansimpsonarchitects.com/...ct/westbridge/

Cherguevara · May 22nd, 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrb

The things is.

The new breed of Nouveau Riche and Oligarch estate and letting agents in the city centre are crying out for new apartments to built.("Sorry, we've go no flats for sale or to let ATM.")

As it stands sealed bids and gazumping is once again rife in the city centre apartment market, if what is being reported is true?

It's obvious the BBC Lovies and the young media professionals flooding into the city are fueling this...... And still they come.

So which property developer is going to be brave and is going to reap the rewards of the iPhone and iPAD generation?

Urabn Splash took the prize last time, but they are so middle aged now. It's time for a new kid on the River Street block

But where's the capital to build it going to come from? Urban Splash made their mark by converting existing buildings into desirable blocks. The proponents of this scheme want to erect a 40 storey tower, which is a much more expensive prospect. If there were to be a new Urban Splash then I doubt they'd be able to pursue this business model. I doubt that with the current financial situation anybody would.

jrb · May 23rd, 2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

But where's the capital to build it going to come from? Urban Splash made their mark by converting existing buildings into desirable blocks. The proponents of this scheme want to erect a 40 storey tower, which is a much more expensive prospect. If there were to be a new Urban Splash then I doubt they'd be able to pursue this business model. I doubt that with the current financial situation anybody would.

That's what I shall try and find out at the exhibition.

It will go something like this.

"Look matey, have you got the money to build this big kahuna or not?"

On a serious note. Didn't MCC state a while back that they wouldn't entertaint property developers who had little or no prospect of funding and building anything tall?

Obviously it's now at an advanced stage where the public are about to get involved. Why go to all that trouble and more if they haven't got a pot to piss in?

Let's give them the benefit of our Greek austerity doubts.

Cherguevara · May 23rd, 2012, 12:19 AM

It's not gone for planning yet, so MCC's willingness to entertain this or not is untested.

If they build it I'm not going to complain. It's hardly likely to be a bad thing for the city. I'm just skeptical.

jrb · May 23rd, 2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

It's not gone for planning yet, so MCC's willingness to entertain this or not is untested.

If they build it I'm not going to complain. It's hardly likely to be a bad thing for the city. I'm just skeptical.

Join the skeptical queue.

Tea, Coffee, sandwiches, cold drinks, crisps, confectionary......

I'm with you brother. Let's go along for the ride. Maybe, just mabye.

ferge · May 23rd, 2012, 10:00 AM

I know it was a different building use, but look how wakefield tower took us by surprise.

Meadows · May 23rd, 2012, 10:39 AM

Although the exact specifics of funding might be unknown, there is a clear demand for these kind of short-term lets, which reap high profits for those that get involved (more than conventional flats).

It's the kind of thing that companies pay for their workers to use, like a bank or whatever. It has a punt at funding.

Manchesterwill · May 23rd, 2012, 05:02 PM

1 car parking space for every 30 flats? that's nuts.

VoldemortBlack · May 23rd, 2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchesterwill

1 car parking space for every 30 flats? that's nuts.

Environmentally friendly though. The council and whoever build this will get a lot of streetcred for that. Having said that it really is bonkers, but on the other hand everything is walking distance away. The city centre, cinema and bowling alley at Great Northern and a new supermarket at First St. For longer trips Deansgate station is nearby too, so it may not be as bad as it sounds

uklad1979 · May 23rd, 2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoldemortBlack

Environmentally friendly though. The council and whoever build this will get a lot of streetcred for that.

The council planning dept. don't dish our streetcred they dish out reality like where the fuck is everyone parking? Oh yeah on the tiny streets, then they stamp it with rejected.

Lookin Up · May 23rd, 2012, 10:55 PM

I actually read the developer's blurb now (instead of skimming it and looking at the pictures - yeah I know)

The proposal is for what some call an aparthotel and there are a number already in the city. I've used them in other places abroad on longer trips and I've used three in Manchester whilst between places: SACO in Piccadilly Place, The Place behind Picc Stn and The Light in the NQ.

Definitely a better proposition than a hotel stay and less hassle than renting your own apartment. I would always use one when staying longer than say 1-2 weeks. They're not cheaper than a hotel but you get more space and your own kitchen, separate lounge, bedroom etc

As such, I think the concerns about parking expressed above are overblown - people using these tend to be from somewhere else and tend not to have brought their cars with them.

My thoughts as a prospective user if/when this is built:
I've got the choices in the locations mentioned above. Do I want to stay near Piccadilly (handy for the station) or in the NQ.....or a bit out on a limb by the side of the elevated section of the inner ring road next to a scraggy budget hotel? And a good walk on a dark, damp November evening to anywhere worthwhile.
That will be a problem for any investor to reconcile.

As Meadows has said there obviously is a demand for this type of relatively short term accommodation. The KEY question any sensible developer and investor will ask is not 'is there a demand?' but 'is there a supply shortage to meet the demand?'
There is no question that a prospective lender these days will demand hard evidence that there is.
Personally I don't know the answer to that question but I do wish these guys all the best - it could be a winner. Like someone else has said, 17NWS almost came out of left field and there it is - built.

May 22nd, 2012, 06:18 PM	#26
GShutty Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lancs Posts: 2,001 Likes (Received): 17	I guess this plot is fairly close to First St, so the 1st St. regeneration ripple effect is perhaps starting to happen? It will certainly enhance the area whilst underway and towards completion and hopefully more will follow, especially if they are like this. __________________ Keep the Faith.

May 22nd, 2012, 07:06 PM	#27
Lookin Up Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 566 Likes (Received): 46	Any mention of a height on this? I guess 40 floors of resi, top of my head, around the 120 to 125m mark - easily the city's second highest. But like others (17NWS, CIS) this too would be built in a dip and it's skyline impact would be less than you would think. Something like this on the higher ground around Piccadilly would make a real skyline impact. If anyone goes down to the public consultation, there's only one question worth asking them: ''do you have funding in place for this?'' If they don't, they might struggle to get planning. Is it not now MCC policy only to approve tower schemes that can demonstrate a route to funding? Last edited by Lookin Up; May 22nd, 2012 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Bad grammar tish tish

May 22nd, 2012, 10:53 PM	#30
Seasonedbest BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,371 Likes (Received): 5	Looks like it could be similar to this proposal in Leicester. http://www.iansimpsonarchitects.com/...ct/westbridge/ Last edited by Seasonedbest; May 23rd, 2012 at 12:28 AM.

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May 22nd, 2012, 12:44 AM	#22
Cherguevara Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,755 Likes (Received): 76	It does seem very much to be a solution in search of a market, which makes me doubtful of its financial viability. I think there is money to be made in providing rental housing for young professionals in the city centre but I doubt it would justify a building of this scale when there is so much empty land in Castlefield/Salford/Ancoats.

May 22nd, 2012, 11:07 AM	#23
Chorltonred Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 483 Likes (Received): 0	Well according to Companies House the development company is owned by the chap who owns this business, which seems respectable: http://www.hpcplc.co.uk/home.asp May be he has some money to play with. Ian Curtis is his name (really!)

May 22nd, 2012, 07:38 PM	#28
Meadows Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kaohsiung/Manchester/Llandudno Posts: 149 Likes (Received): 2	I counted 42 floors on that render, but I don't know the height. It'll probably be the 2nd biggest yeah.

May 22nd, 2012, 10:44 PM	#29
jrb 10th February 2008 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 26,444 Likes (Received): 284	The things is. The new breed of Nouveau Riche and Oligarch estate and letting agents in the city centre are crying out for new apartments to built.("Sorry, we've go no flats for sale or to let ATM.") As it stands sealed bids and gazumping is once again rife in the city centre apartment market, if what is being reported is true? It's obvious the BBC Lovies and the young media professionals flooding into the city are fueling this...... And still they come. So which property developer is going to be brave and is going to reap the rewards of the iPhone and iPAD generation? Urabn Splash took the prize last time, but they are so middle aged now. It's time for a new kid on the River Street block

May 23rd, 2012, 12:19 AM	#33
Cherguevara Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,755 Likes (Received): 76	It's not gone for planning yet, so MCC's willingness to entertain this or not is untested. If they build it I'm not going to complain. It's hardly likely to be a bad thing for the city. I'm just skeptical.

May 23rd, 2012, 10:00 AM	#35
ferge Like 'Berg' Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wigan Posts: 5,427 Likes (Received): 86	I know it was a different building use, but look how wakefield tower took us by surprise.

May 23rd, 2012, 10:39 AM	#36
Meadows Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Kaohsiung/Manchester/Llandudno Posts: 149 Likes (Received): 2	Although the exact specifics of funding might be unknown, there is a clear demand for these kind of short-term lets, which reap high profits for those that get involved (more than conventional flats). It's the kind of thing that companies pay for their workers to use, like a bank or whatever. It has a punt at funding.

May 23rd, 2012, 05:02 PM	#37
Manchesterwill Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 112 Likes (Received): 0	1 car parking space for every 30 flats? that's nuts.

May 23rd, 2012, 10:55 PM	#40
Lookin Up Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 566 Likes (Received): 46	I actually read the developer's blurb now (instead of skimming it and looking at the pictures - yeah I know) The proposal is for what some call an aparthotel and there are a number already in the city. I've used them in other places abroad on longer trips and I've used three in Manchester whilst between places: SACO in Piccadilly Place, The Place behind Picc Stn and The Light in the NQ. Definitely a better proposition than a hotel stay and less hassle than renting your own apartment. I would always use one when staying longer than say 1-2 weeks. They're not cheaper than a hotel but you get more space and your own kitchen, separate lounge, bedroom etc As such, I think the concerns about parking expressed above are overblown - people using these tend to be from somewhere else and tend not to have brought their cars with them. My thoughts as a prospective user if/when this is built: I've got the choices in the locations mentioned above. Do I want to stay near Piccadilly (handy for the station) or in the NQ.....or a bit out on a limb by the side of the elevated section of the inner ring road next to a scraggy budget hotel? And a good walk on a dark, damp November evening to anywhere worthwhile. That will be a problem for any investor to reconcile. As Meadows has said there obviously is a demand for this type of relatively short term accommodation. The KEY question any sensible developer and investor will ask is not 'is there a demand?' but 'is there a supply shortage to meet the demand?' There is no question that a prospective lender these days will demand hard evidence that there is. Personally I don't know the answer to that question but I do wish these guys all the best - it could be a winner. Like someone else has said, 17NWS almost came out of left field and there it is - built.