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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #441
Coihaique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanix View Post
You know, I know it, 600West knows it.
By the way! I recommend you to visit this thread which shows that Cologne has indeed very nice hictorical buildings which were left out by 600west:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1410376
Oh - again you know, what other people have to think. I alfways talked about different tastes, but you can't accept it.- And after seeing your threat. Are you joking? This should change my mind? - I somehow like the Rheinauhafen - this was the thing I thought about when talking about some nice newer developments. - But the first 6 pictures for example are exactly what I meant. The Gründerzeit of Cologne or what is left is realy not impressive. Have you ever seen the Gründerzeit of Leipzig? -- And well if you use this pictures - I even have to say, this is not even better than Chemnitz Kaßberg or not even parts of Chemnitz Sonneberg. Resently I have seen a Chemnitz-thread here - go and see. Well I expect you will say you don't like it, but please don't tell me what I have to like. - And of course if a city is double as big as an other, I expect double time nice areas. How much in percentage of a city is nice is important, otherwise alsways the big cities would be the nicest, which is nonsense. And wiht this eyes - yes - I found Lille much better.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #442
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Just read my last post, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again.
Thanks!
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Old July 13th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Funny you should ask. I had that idea recently and have been doing a fair amount of exploring of off the beaten track interesting places in New York City and State.


Sooooo, I finally started a thread on it today which I will keep updating as I explore.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...8#post93224678
Let's move to this new thread
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Old July 13th, 2012, 02:50 PM   #444
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Just read my last post, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again.
Thanks!
Just read my last posts, watch the pictures closely again, stop trolling around and never compare Cologne with Chemnitz again, because you were the one, who brought Chemnitz into this topic, not I. Thanks!
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Old July 13th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #445
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Avalanix, calm down, okay?

I as well disagreed before, that there wasn't much to see in Cologne, that's definitely wrong. Alone Cologne's churches are world class! But, honestly, the cityscape is very mediocre, not to say ugly. It really is and most people would agree. Most of all, if they recently visited a city like Paris or those beautifully preserved belgian cities.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #446
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I don't think I have to calm down from anything here. Cologne is really far from being mediocre and absolutely doesn't have to hide from Ghent Brussels whatsoever! I don't see anything ugly in Cologne not even in 600Wests pictures.
That Cologne is lacking historical buildings is just wrong.

image hosted on flickr

by fellow forumer Helmet222
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...5#post93233915

Looks this ugly to you? Well tell me then what in your opinion is beautiful.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #447
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First I have to say, I normaly don't like to say bad things about other cities, because of course everyone loves his home town and the best place on the world is the place where your friends live.
But yes Avalanix - you offended me somehow in one other actual thread by calling East Germans uneducated, corrupt and so one and spoke about East Germany in a very unpolite manner. So yes I maybe reacted a little bit more sensitive on your comment (600West must be drunk because he thinks Cologne is medicrite) than I would have done by other users. And the reaction is also that I am in this case very confident: I realy travel much and I prefer historic cities, but also like some of the very modern developments, but I dislike for example the 60s style of West Germany and also Plattenbauten of East Germany and hate 60s buildings more than some a little bit run down streets, where I tend to see the potential after renovation and I have to say, with this as background I think Leipzig is so much better than Cologne, I will even say Halle is so much nicer than Cologne (I know Halle has very ugly areas, but also some realy nice one).
Avalanix choose one of the nicest pictures of that thread and I have to say, yes this picture is definitly not ugly, maybe even nice, but this Gründerzeit buildings are realy simple compared to the Saxon Gründerzeit, even in so small cities like Zwickau, not to speak about Görlitz or Leipzig. - I will take the 5 last pictures of that thread an explain, what I don't like - and places like that are the majority in Cologne, that was at least my impression:
So picture 1: One very nice building on the left. In Leipzig you can find km˛s were every building looks like this, here and there a few buildings which are "modern". All the other buildings on this picture are - yes - thats my opinion - blah - if not to say ugly. If Avalanix can show a street picture with 25 or so buildings of the quality of this one building without any building like the buildings on the right street side and with a better street space, well I will say, I didn't found it, but why this is also never seen in the picture threads of Cologne? And if he shows such pictures of 4 or 5 different streets than I am glade to say - I underestimated Cologne.
pictures 2,3 and 5: I don't have to say anything. What is nice about this? In fact it is damn ugly.
picture 4: one very simpel building from the Gründerzeit, with ugly roof and ugly windows (of a kind you now only find realy seldom in Leipzig or Dresden) - the other buildings just blah.

In fact of the thread Avalanix recommended to see how nice Cologne is there are only 4 or so pictures which are o.k. or even nice, the rest ist not. By the way he didn't answer, if he was in Chemnitz or not. But I was in Cologne and exactly have seen this. I am waiting for the pictures of the realy nice historic quarters of Cologne, I am sure there have to be some.
In Lille I found very view of this, but complete quarters with complete historic architekture.


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Old July 13th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #448
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Dude! You can find those corners in every other city as well. May it be Ghent Paris Rome whatever.
By the way you can't compare west european cities with former the likes from the former east. The east has been polished and refurbished since 20 years. It's rather a surprise if they wouldn't look good.
And Leipzig has as well commieblock areas as well as dresden zwickau in particular.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #449
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This discussion above is so pointless. I don`t think one can compare so different cities as Leipzig and Cologne.
Been to Cologne and to Leipzig. In my opinion, Leipzig is a wonderful cities full of nice buildings. It looks a lot better than Cologne, although it is not as large and diverse. Just take a look at the "Südvorstadt" in GoogleEarth. It`s really amazing, I actually never thought eastern-german cities would look this way. They really did a better job after WW"2 than Western-Germany.
Cologne is a wonderful place too. Of Course, the quality of most buildings isn`t that good, many of them are just so boring and the city can be very dirty, but if you live there it has also a lot to offer. The city itself is so diverse. U can take walk at the rhine river, u can cross many bridges, public-transport is great, multicultural places like Ehrenfeld and Mühlheim, student-lifestyle in the southern parts, lots of greenery and so on. The cathedral will never cease to amaze you. It`s one of those places you can only judge by experience, not just by looking at pictures.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #450
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I am really looking forward to visiting Germany in the coming years. I really hope that not everything is so contentious there
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #451
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Alright. You guys are right I completely agree now. How could I've been so blind ?
Cologne is really sh*t ugly boring etc. but Brussels and especially east german cities (which was never the topic here) beats the hell out of Cologne don't know how this idea came up to my mind.
Sorry for offending.

Last edited by Avalanix; July 14th, 2012 at 06:17 AM.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 03:44 AM   #452
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To make an end to this discussion from my side. Cologne is a very important city in Germany - the 4th biggest and important in many fields (media, art and so on). Cologne has the reputation to be a very open and tolerant city - and diverse. If you are different you will maybe love to left the sometimes constriced smaller cites, even if this cities are mostly far more idyllic, and love to live in Cologne. With its cathedral Cologne has a landmark only view cities have to offer. Cologne also has (which is often a little bit unknown) romanic churches of highest quality and quantity. Cologne was long time Germany biggest city and before the war must have been very beautiful. I wish Cologne some nice procjects so it can also develop some "perfect" quarters. Something like "Stadtumbau Ost" should be started immediately for some west German cities. I know there is also a programm "Stadtumbau West" but more money should flow in this direction. -- Even if all you heard about East Germany is Stasi, The Left, Rightwing extremists, high unemployment - I think in many fields West Germany (expecially Northrin-Westpfalia) can learn form the experiences of the East in the last 20 years, even if they have to bear down their ego for this. Otherwise I would invite to come to see the East (45% of the West Germans have never been in the East and many others only one time) - you will be surpised how beautiful Schwerin, Erfurt, Halle and others can be - and also be surprissed that cities like Chemnitz and Cottbus have realy nice areas and are in no way worse than many cities of the same size in the West. Not to speak about the many picturess small cities - for Saxony I could give a strong recommendation for more than half of its cities with 20.000-50.000 people. The only thing you have to deal with is many cities seem to be a little bit empty because of the strong decline of population in the last 20 years, but this is definitly not true for cities like Dresden, Leipzig and Weimar and as far as I know now many cities in the West are also expected to decline in the next 50 years, so again they can learn.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #453
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I've just been to Duesseldorf with a friend of mine, driving through France, Belgium and the Netherlands on the way. Didn't really get any photos of the cities, too busy looking around I suppose, and I didn't really get on with the camera I borrowed. I got a few of Zollverein in Essen, Landschaftspark Nord in Duisburg, Tagebau Garzweiler and half-demolished Pesch though. I might upload a thread if they're any good.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
[







From this level you could see many of the flying butresses.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The river there is the most famous river in Germany, at least for Americans, the Rhine river.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


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Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr


nice views
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Old July 18th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #455
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thanks for the beautiful pics...
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Old July 19th, 2012, 01:35 AM   #456
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Great photo report ! The whole is even more interesting thanks to your genuine comments 600West218 !
I especially loved your pics of Charleroi. I don't know the city (never have been to Belgium) and I was impressed by all the massive industrial buildings and infrastructures (the subway, the ring) of the city.

When you was in Paris, you happened to wander just next to my neighbordhood. I live near these (infamous) towers :
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Well, at least they were trying to be innovative - but they failed, in a 1970s sort of way.
I made some threads about them and my neighbordhood some years ago :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...097&highlight=
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...434&highlight=
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Old July 19th, 2012, 02:51 AM   #457
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My two cents, the history/architecture-geek in me couldn't help it

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The picture above is obviously Paris. The picture below is what used to be the main train station in Ghent, which unfortunately got demolished as the new central train station (the one you arrived in) was built around the time of the world fair in Ghent (1913).

Actually, the station and tracks were right at the South Park, or King Albert I Park, where coincidentally you also wandered

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This building(s) is stunning and I am not happy with the pictures at all. They just do no justice to it. It is the Ghent town hall and is quite old. It was built in two parts, which are clearly distinct. The right hand side is about a hundred years older than the left hand side (1530s versus 1630s). Both parts are truly stunning.
There's more to this story, even with a surprise intervention by Napoleon Bonaparte himself

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The town hall is situated on the site where until 1482 the town representatives and guild's men met in separate houses. Because these houses were judged too small and too unrepresentative for such important people, it was decided that a new and bigger town hall had to be built. The first stone of this new hall was laid in 1482. The building was finished in 1484. Very soon, however, also this new hall was considered too small and from 1518 until 1535 a new and much bigger town hall was constructed in late-gothic style. In 1540 Ghent suffered reprisals from emperor Charles V because the citizens had dared to refuse to pay more taxes to the emperor. By then, only one third of the planned town hall had been constructed. It was only as from 1572 that Ghent could continue to build its town hall. However, the architectural style had changed and several renaissance-style parts were added to the building until the beginning of the 18th century. In 1750 a construction in Louis XV-style was added as the seat of the 'chamber of the poor'. In the beginning of the 19th century the staircases in front of the hall were changed for a visit of Napoleon.
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Here they had an earthen dam blocking water for some sort of work.
Just like in Paris, a lot of waterways in Ghent were covered up to make room for the personal automobile, either by filling them in or putting a roof over them. Today (or should I say: for the past ten friggin' years) the city of Ghent is working to reinstate this little waterway connecting the historical center and the old harbor to its former glory. What they were actually working on there was - I feel bad for you, seeing you like locks, canals and such - a brand new lock.


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A very old church tower for some reason not maintained.
That would be because it's school property. But I believe I read somewhere they are going to do something about it soon.

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Very nice new modern apartments where I stayed. The integration of new and old in Ghent was quite nice. I wonder what was here before though.
A pretty huge newspaper office, along with printing presses and such



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I finally saw them again at Charleroi at a construction site being used as dump trucks. In fact, I don't think I saw any dump trucks in Belgium (or France either) so I guess they use these instead.

Maybe they are preferred because they see them as more flexible in being able to be used in both construction and agriculture. In France they also used tractors to pull fishing boats out of the water.

Jep, we have developed the tendency to use tractors as dump trucks in Belgium. They're cheaper to run (fuel wise and tax wise) and they're more maneuverable/smaller. Who knows, the crane might get some competetion regarding the national mascot-thing

I'll see if I can fill you in tomorrow on the questions/wonderings/... that the other Belgians haven't covered, if you'd like that. And may I add, this is one of the most interesting showcases my eyes have laid rest on. That, and you have an exquisite sense of humor!


And... if you're still in doubt as to the windmill blades at Oostende, they were moved out to sea that day, something I witnessed


Hope you enjoyed it. To the French and Germans bickering: this is the 21st century you're living in, using Belgium to fight your wars is so twentieth

Last edited by Jongeheer; July 19th, 2012 at 03:54 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 05:54 AM   #458
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Jongeheer:

Thanks for the information!! By all means, feel free to share any and all information on these sights. I really like it and I absolutely love learning the history of places that I saw.

On that train station I can't immediately tell which it is. The Gare du Nord in Paris and Gare du Flanders in Lille both were pretty similar, and I was told on this thread that the Flanders station was the original Gare du Nord in Paris!!

That is great that Ghent is working to dig out the old canals and put them back in service, even if for recreational purposes.

I think I recall being told by the person I stayed with that those apartments were where a newspaper printing factory had been. In fact, he pointed out the houses behind there that were old housing for the workers - I posted a picture or two of it.

I was really pissed that I didn't have more time in Oostende. If I hadn't been running late I would have gone over to get a closer look at those turbines and the huge ship cranes with them. But by the time I got back from the Atlantic Wall they were gone and I had to rush back to Ghent anyways. That is what happens when you stay out too late drinking beer :-(

Anyways, thanks for the information and please do share more as you can.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 06:03 AM   #459
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Great photo report ! The whole is even more interesting thanks to your genuine comments 600West218 !
I especially loved your pics of Charleroi. I don't know the city (never have been to Belgium) and I was impressed by all the massive industrial buildings and infrastructures (the subway, the ring) of the city.

When you was in Paris, you happened to wander just next to my neighbordhood. I live near these (infamous) towers :


I made some threads about them and my neighbordhood some years ago :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...097&highlight=
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...434&highlight=
Hi GM:

Thanks for the feedback and the links to those threads. Paris really looks different in the winter!!

Were most of the apartment buildings in your threads "social housing". They look pretty nice, at least by American standards, but then the common areas look run down and filled with graffiti. I found that area of La Defense quite interesting. It was clear from the little that I saw, such as the cemetery, that there was something there before. Then in this thread I was told about the big riots there decades ago.

I would really encourage you to visit Belgium. I think you'll really like it.

BTW, you fantastic trip reports from Russia have served as my role model in making my trips and writing trip reports. Thanks for the inspiration! And trust me, I really, really want to get to Noralisk

And I plan on traveling to Russia soon so maybe I'll need some advice.

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Old July 20th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #460
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Were most of the apartment buildings in your threads "social housing".
Some are social housing, like the Tours Aillaud for example, the tall camouflage-clad towers I quoted in my precedent post. It's a pretty infamous housing project.
Others are privately owned flats, inhabited by tenants or by the owners (like my building).

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It was clear from the little that I saw, such as the cemetery, that there was something there before.
The park you can see in the second thread I linked is the place where were located the last parisian slums before being cleared in the 1970's.
You can see them in this pic posted earlier in this thread by eklips :
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Here's a picture of the famous slum right next to the "CNIT", the building which is in the middle of la Défense and that you showed in your photos:

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BTW, you fantastic trip reports from Russia have served as my role model in making my trips and writing trip reports. Thanks for the inspiration!
Really ? Thanks !

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