daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Photo Forums > Urban Showcase

Urban Showcase Show your selfmade photos



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #61
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 1574

What are the qualifications for getting social housing? No job? Very low income? Do you pay no rent at all for it or just lower rent?

In the US such nice public housing would be criticized as giving people an incentive not to work.
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #62
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
I agree. But at least the graffiti I saw was of good quality - quite good quality as a matter of fact.

When I first came to New York the subways were entirely covered in graffiti. Most of it was terrible but some was quite good. For years even after it was gone tourists used to come to New York hoping to see all the graffiti on the subways and would often express disappointment when it was gone.

Brussels and Charleroi in particular took me back to those days
In that case you'll like the Kapellekerk/ Bruxelles-Chapelle trainstation in Brussels. Almost no trains stop there and it's covered in graffiti.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edsfbe8mlas

or this tram station http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPso...eature=related
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!

Last edited by joshsam; May 28th, 2012 at 04:34 PM.
joshsam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #63
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
What are the qualifications for getting social housing? No job? Very low income? Do you pay no rent at all for it or just lower rent?

In the US such nice public housing would be criticized as giving people an incentive not to work.
I searched it down for you for Flanders:
-Older than 18
-Yearly taxable income lower than € 29 694- € 22 879 (note that taxes in Belgium are higher than 30%) (+ the number of income depends on differend social funds that builds the housing and ofcourse also on how many kids you have... This number is for one person with no kids). (To compaire: the average Fleming has a yearly taxable income of 38 000€)
- You need to be a citizen (obviously)
-Speak Dutch or willing to learn
-You have no other property of your own.

There is also a lot of criticism on that. Just giving people a home...Giving them a minimum wage , free healthcare, scholing,..... I think it does make people lazy and I think there are a bunch of people that don't do effort to find a job and just like to life on the wellfare state.
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!

Last edited by joshsam; May 28th, 2012 at 04:53 PM.
joshsam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #64
Puinkabouter
killed Laura Palmer
 
Puinkabouter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: G(h)ent
Posts: 10,403
Likes (Received): 2320

In Belgium, renting a social appartment still means renting, you don't get it for free, but it costs less than a similar apartment on the private housing market.

Last summer I worked for the largest social housing company of Belgium (Woonhaven Antwerpen), as a photographer, documenting all the buildings they own. One summer wasn't enough, I barely managed to photograph half of them... But the job really helped to see that social housing is a concept that doesn't preclude visually interesting architecture. Sure enough, Antwerp has its share of dull grey concrete tenement buildings, but some of the prettiest post-war areas of the city consist mostly of social housing too.


Alois de Laetstraat, Kiel



(On the left) Stuivenbergplein, Antwerpen-Noord


Those are social housing complexes too, and I'd say they are among the most valuable 20th century landmarks of the city.
__________________
www.dewebsitevanpuinkabouter.be
Puinkabouter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #65
De Klauw
Registered User
 
De Klauw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,102
Likes (Received): 2454

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puinkabouter View Post
In Belgium, renting a social appartment still means renting, you don't get it for free, but it costs less than a similar apartment on the private housing market.
Indeed. But the government also provides a minimum wage large enough so that unemployed people can live in a social house. So there are indeed many people in social houses without jobs.

Anyway: off-topic.
De Klauw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #66
Buffalo Soldier
amai
 
Buffalo Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 1000〽️
Posts: 1,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
I agree. But at least the graffiti I saw was of good quality - quite good quality as a matter of fact.

When I first came to New York the subways were entirely covered in graffiti. Most of it was terrible but some was quite good. For years even after it was gone tourists used to come to New York hoping to see all the graffiti on the subways and would often express disappointment when it was gone.

Brussels and Charleroi in particular took me back to those days
In my opinion, Brussels does have some good graffiti, but majority of it is rather uninspired (but of course this is true for 99% of graffiti in the world), I saw much cooler things in France, to be honest.
Buffalo Soldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #67
Buffalo Soldier
amai
 
Buffalo Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 1000〽️
Posts: 1,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Klauw View Post
Anyway: off-topic.
Indeed, let's not turn this fantastic Photo-thread into a political one
Buffalo Soldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #68
WC_EEND
Registered User
 
WC_EEND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gent
Posts: 547
Likes (Received): 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Klauw View Post
Anyway: off-topic.
On another offtopic note, it seems half the Be Forum is following this thread
WC_EEND no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #69
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 1574

Day 1 in Ghent.

Today I was to travel to Ghent. That might seem out of order given that I was later to travel to Lille and then back to Brussels and Charleroi but my hosts in Lille were available on the weekend so first I went to Ghent so that I could save Lille until the following weekend.

To get to Ghent I had to catch a train to Lille (a high speed TGV) and then a local train from Lille to Ghent. I had 15 minutes to get from Lille Europa to Lille Flanders to catch the other train.

As my train left early from Paris I took a cab to the Gare du Nord which is a nice, if unspectacular, train station.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Still more Haussman buildings

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

9:46 to Lille, that’s me!! I have to say, I really love travelling by train. It is so much better than the US where everything is by plane. There is no security to go through and you get to see a lot of interesting countryside.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The high speed train. One thing is though when you are gently watching the countryside go by and all of the sudden you pass another train - wow, it really wakes you up.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I got to Lille and sucessfully found the other station and made the transfer.

Pulling out of Lille Flanders station I saw this:

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Not sure if these are Gypsies are regular people in difficult circumstances. They’ve had articles in the New York Times about some people in France living in trailers due to inability to afford proper housing.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
Some of the suburban housing I saw from the train going into Belgium.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Some of the towns between Lille and Ghent looked fascinating in their own right. Old industrial places with factories and canals. Some place called Kotrick looked particularly interesting. But even though I had to go there many times to change trains I never got out and explored.

Also, between Paris and Lille a major change occured. In Paris the buildings are largely biege or tan in color (all the Haussman buildings) and it has sort of a southern European feeling. But once you got to Lille most everything was red brick buildings with lots of row or terrace housing. It definitely had a northern European feeling and much of what I saw in places like Lille, Ghent, and Charleroi could easily have been in Liverpool, Machester, or Leeds.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The St. Peters train station in Ghent.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

As I wasn’t to meet my host until later I went out to explore.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Walking out of the train station you run smack into some funky looking trees and what seems like 20 million bikes.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Hope their owners remember where they parked.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Ghent had lots of trams

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Maybe a super tall under construction?

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

ok, these modular rooms I saw at many construction sites. I couldn’t figure out what they were. They are way too big simply to be for the construction management - for that you only need one trailer. Someone mentioned they might be to house workers who come from other countries to work on projects. I don’t know.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

ok, seriously, if you parked in the middle of that how do you ever get your bike out.

Later my host told me that many people simply grabbed whatever bike was available - he had three bikes stolen.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

BTW, that housing in the background would be called Victorian if it were in England. Not sure what it is called here.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Is this Manchester or is this Ghent? It is Ghent. But it could be lots of places in England. Loved these buildings.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Walking into the city you pass a large and rather nice park with some very friendly ducks and geese.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This apparently was a high school. I think some form of alternative high school.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was a very interesting looking momument. It seemed to be dedicated to some sort of uprising. Even my host didn’t know what it was.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Bikers everywhere. There really weren’t many pedestrians like me, just walking. Most everyone was in a car, in a tram, or riding a bike.

From the map I knew there were interesting looking canals nearby and I was trying to find them. Finally I found it.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The canal boats tied up here all seemed to be used as houses.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

BTW, note that in the background of many of these pictures you can see construction cranes. I think it is hard to find any place in Belgium where you can’t see a crane.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I guess these people are vacationing from the Netherlands. It must be awesome to have one of these as a home and be able to travel all over France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. I think you can make it to the Black Sea with one of these.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Here the canal splits - notice the “road” sign!

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Liverpool? Ghent? If you didn’t look at the license plates of the cars you could be confused about where you were.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Not such a great looking ambulance.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I spent a couple of days having no idea what these signs were that were everywhere. Turns out they are signs for parking garages and it tells you if they are full, have space, or if they are almost full how many spaces are left.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Even the people who live by the canal have lots of bikes.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

There were some modern buildings along the canal.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A very nice and innovative way of making a wall

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

You can tell there used to be more industry here in the city proper.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

I think this was an old industrial building converted into lofts.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

More modern apartments which seemed quite nice.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Next I came to this canal lock.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

It was operational and there was even a building with a lock keeper there. When he saw me wandering around on the lock he came out and though he didn’t speak much english made it clear I needed to get off the locks.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This seemed like a small abandoned canal. Then again, maybe it is just for drainage.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was interesting - there were these little earthen berms about 4 feet high around. It looked to me like maybe at one point they were for flood control. But no one I asked knew.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Never did figure out what this thing is. Anyone know?

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

BTW, Ghent is a HUGE university town and I think most of this “working class” housing is now used by students.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

A half way decent looking fire truck.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

There was a nice little botanical garden that I passed on the way back to St. Peters station. If I recall correctly there was a planeterium too.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

The strange tree again.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This explanation might have been more helpful if I spoke Flemish.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
I do love the bay windows. They make the buildings look so much more interesting.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

By now I wandered back to the train station where my CouchSurfing host was picking me up. After being taken to his home I would continue exploring Ghent, a bit closer to the city center.
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #70
openlyJane
Human Being
 
openlyJane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 31,639
Likes (Received): 43385

That 'strange tree' is a Monkey Puzzle Tree - see my earlier post!

Interesting tour of Ghent.
openlyJane no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #71
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Very nice wandering around. I like how you get to see non touristy stuff and you go where people actually live and have their homes You are right that most of those old homes have their chambers rented to students. Many of them, but surely not all, serve as individual student dorms and are private owned.
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!

Last edited by joshsam; May 28th, 2012 at 07:10 PM.
joshsam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #72
joshsam
JR
 
joshsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sint-Truiden
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 5408

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Never did figure out what this thing is. Anyone know?
It counts the bikers that passed by. I have also never seen that before in any other Belgian city. On the left it says last year 600.000 bikers passed by. On the right it says how many bikers allready passed by this year. Apperently around 300.000 On top is says you are the 4th biker today wich doesn't seem to be correct in any way :p
__________________
Ceci n'est pas un pays, een bananenrepubliek ja!
joshsam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #73
WC_EEND
Registered User
 
WC_EEND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gent
Posts: 547
Likes (Received): 18

Quote:
Some place called Kotrick looked particularly interesting.
I think you mean "Kortrijk" Also, the tower you saw under construction will be 92m high when finished. see this thread for more info (Flemish only, but feel free to ask questions in English)

edit: never seen the bicyle passing meter thing before though
WC_EEND no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #74
Tchek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 428
Likes (Received): 136

Quote:
much of what I saw in places like Lille, Ghent, and Charleroi could easily have been in Liverpool, Machester, or Leeds.

Certainly. Belgium looks kinda like the UK in many ways. Liège is even sometimes called "the Belgian Birmingham", "the Belgian Liverpool" or "the belgian Bristol".
Tchek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #75
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 1574

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
It counts the bikers that passed by. I have also never seen that before in any other Belgian city. On the left it says last year 600.000 bikers passed by. On the right it says how many bikers allready passed by this year. Apperently around 300.000 On top is says you are the 4th biker today
wow, that is amazing. So I guess they are trying to use it to promote bicycling. I wonder how it counts the bikes? How would a sensor distinguish between a bike and a motorcycle or even a car?
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #76
Puinkabouter
killed Laura Palmer
 
Puinkabouter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: G(h)ent
Posts: 10,403
Likes (Received): 2320

Yay, home. I think you'll be getting a lot of feedback from here on

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Maybe a super tall under construction?
It will reach 90 meters when finished. That's super tall to local standards. Only the belfry (95m) and the Artevelde Tower (119m) are taller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
ok, these modular rooms I saw at many construction sites. I couldn’t figure out what they were. They are way too big simply to be for the construction management - for that you only need one trailer. Someone mentioned they might be to house workers who come from other countries to work on projects. I don’t know.
You're right, they serve as housing for the guys who are constructing that tower. Most of them are Spanish or Portuguese I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
BTW, that housing in the background would be called Victorian if it were in England. Not sure what it is called here.
I guess we'd call them Belle Epoque houses ("the beautiful era").


Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
This apparently was a high school. I think some form of alternative high school.
When translated very literally, "Hogeschool" indeed means "High School", but it is more correctly translated as "University College" (ie. an institution that provides tertiary education but does not have full University status).


Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
This was a very interesting looking momument. It seemed to be dedicated to some sort of uprising. Even my host didn’t know what it was.
Edmond van Beeveren was one of the founders of the Belgian Socialist Party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Here the canal splits - notice the “road” sign!
Actually, this is the river Scheldt (or Schelde in Dutch). It's one of the main rivers in Belgium. It looks a bit underwhelming here but that's because the city is bypassed by a larger canal called "Ringvaart". It's the same river that flows through Antwerp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
You can tell there used to be more industry here in the city proper.
That's true. Actually Ghent was the first heavily industrialized city in mainland Europe - thanks to Lieven Bauwens, a spy who smuggled English steam engines into the country. Apparently in the 19th century is had the nickname "Mainland Manchester". Apparently it still is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
This was interesting - there were these little earthen berms about 4 feet high around. It looked to me like maybe at one point they were for flood control. But no one I asked knew.
Those berms have no function other than to separate different areas within the park from each other. They create a more intimate atmosphere.
__________________
www.dewebsitevanpuinkabouter.be
Puinkabouter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #77
De Klauw
Registered User
 
De Klauw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,102
Likes (Received): 2454

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post

Later my host told me that many people simply grabbed whatever bike was available - he had three bikes stolen.

Indeed. That's why you see so many old bikes in Ghent. Lot's of them aren't even locked. So basically they are a bit 'common property'. (not for real off course).



Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

BTW, that housing in the background would be called Victorian if it were in England. Not sure what it is called here.

Those houses are called 'eclectic' since they are composed of multiple styles. Houses of that type are typical of the late 19th century-early 20th century.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

This was a very interesting looking momument. It seemed to be dedicated to some sort of uprising. Even my host didn’t know what it was.

According to the plaque it's dedicated to Edmond Van Beveren, a prominent Ghent socialist.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Never did figure out what this thing is. Anyone know?

It's a counter. It's says 'YOU ARE THE 4TH BIKER TODAY'. Although I don't think it's working properly since 4 is an unrealistic low number.

Last edited by De Klauw; May 28th, 2012 at 07:32 PM.
De Klauw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #78
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 1574

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchek View Post
Certainly. Belgium looks kinda like the UK in many ways. Liège is even sometimes called "the Belgian Birmingham", "the Belgian Liverpool" or "the belgian Bristol".
Yup, and Ghent was called the Manchester of the Continent due to its being a big center of the textile industry.

The main difference between Belgium and Britain in this regard was a I saw a lot more active industry in Belgium than Britain. I'll show a lot of it in later posts.
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #79
Helmet222
Registered User
 
Helmet222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bonn/Eupen
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 2

Can`t wait to see your pictures of brussels and charleroi!
Helmet222 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #80
600West218
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 1574

Thanks for all the information!! It is really helpful. It is good to learn what I was looking at.
600West218 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
paris photo

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium