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Old June 5th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #41
the golden vision
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Thanks, that's appreciated
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Old June 5th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #42
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You'll have to write that book soon, Golden Vision
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Old June 5th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #43
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That's a real compliment coming from you, Jane If anyone has captured the genius loci of Liverpool it's you.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 05:20 AM   #44
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This and yubnub's thread are really wonderful additions to this part of the forum. I enjoy your commentary as much as I love your pictures, although I think you are a bit too hard on the proponents of Picturesque Gothic.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
This and yubnub's thread are really wonderful additions to this part of the forum. I enjoy your commentary as much as I love your pictures, although I think you are a bit too hard on the proponents of Picturesque Gothic.
Thanks, that's nice to know. I'm glad you're enjoying it and appreciate your feedback.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 11:54 PM   #46
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All Saints, Childwall, Liverpool

All Saints Church was mentioned in the Domesday survey of 1086, although the only medieval parts of the church that remaon today are the chancel and part of the nave.

The Greater Liverpool area has 11 medieval churches and within a hour's drive of the city, in North Wales,Cheshire and Lancashire,are some very fine examples ,including, Lower Peover, Marton and Nantwich.



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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #47
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St Oswald, Lower Peover, Cheshire


A beautiful setting for this church. The tower is from the 1580's, the nave early 1300's, the aisles were widened and the exterior heavily restored in the 1850's. The wooden, arcaded nave, is possibly the oldest example in Europe,dating from the early 1300's.

There's a tribute on the west wall of the interior of the church to the oak,of which the frame of the building is constructed.

Talk not of Syrian Cedar

Nor yet of foreign pine

And mention not the timber

Of any other clime

But see our native oak

In noble grandeur stand

The dread of every sea

The glory of our land.





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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:15 AM   #48
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The interior, with its oak arcades, possibly the oldest example in Europe.




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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #49
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St James & St Paul, Marton, Cheshire


Marton is a few miles south of Lower Peover, slightly later in date and unfortunately situated on the busy Congleton Rd. The church dates from the second half of the 14thc and has had less restoration than Lower Peover. The spire is of particular interest, very unusual in the north of England,more usually found in the south east, covered in oak shingles with original window frames.



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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:31 AM   #50
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The interior, as at Lower Peover, oak, fantastic !




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Old June 7th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #51
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Wow great update, I really had no idea there were such fine examples of half timber churches in the UK. Amazing they survived
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Old June 7th, 2012, 08:51 AM   #52
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Thanks. I'm pretty sure they're the only existing half-timbered churches in England,certainly pre-1500. There is Greensted church in Essex of course,reputedly the oldest wooden church in the world(9thc). Although, this really only consists of the two outer walls,no interior fabric and it has been so interfered with(yes, those Victorians again) that things become very complicated as regards age and original fabric.

I agree it's amazing these two Cheshire churches have survived, although I've a feeling it's maybe not that extraordinary in the context of half-timbered buildings being the Cheshire vernacular. I assume there would've been many more churches built like this in cheshire which haven't survived. Most people associate this type of building style with the 16thc or earlier, however in Cheshire and parts of south Lancashire it isn't unusual to half-timbering right up to the early 1700's. This wasn't due to a any shortage in local stone or the availabilty of brick but because it was the local style.
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Old June 9th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #53
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Good to report, there are three more medieval half-timbered churches in England. Mattingley in Hampshire, Melverley in Shropshire and Besford in Worcestershire.
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Old June 9th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #54
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St Mary, Whalley, Lancashire.


A church with Anglo-Saxon orgins although the present structure dates mainly from the 13th and 16th centuries. The tower, late 14th, aisle and clerestory 16th. The chancel south wall has five Early English lancets from the second half of the 13thc, internally the church is mostly late 13th. The churchyard has three 10thc crosses.

The furnishings are the glory of the church, especially the choir stalls with their canopies and misericords. These came from nearby Whalley Abbey at the dissolution of the monasteries during the Reformation in England in the 1530's.

The Dissolution

The 'Stripping of the Altars' during the Protestant Reformation in England ,left, not just parish churches but cathedrals and religious houses denuded of some of the finest English art and craftsmanship ever produced. Fantastcially carved screens and stalls with their misericords with ripped out in their thousands, many ending up as fire wood for fires to melt lead for church roofs. Similarly, wall paintings, even though most were quite primitive and not frescoes,simply painted on dry plaster, some were works of art.
There isn't any doubt however about the loss of almost all the medieval stained glass in English churches, this is what one commentator says: " The wholesale destruction of medieval stained glass was the greatest calamity that has ever befallen English art"

Horrendous as the destruction of religious art was, i can almost empathise with it. To the Protestant mind such things were unChristian and had no place in a house of God. The destruction of the relgious houses however is a different matter.

After the break with Rome in the 1530's there was a genuine threat of invasion from Catholic France and Spain to bring England back into the 'fold'.
Henry V11 needed funds to strengthen the country's coatal defences to stave off invasion. Advised by Thomas Cromwell that the source of funding should be the religious houses Henry saw an opportunity to increase his personal wealth at the same time. The Abbeys and Monasteries of England had amassed enormous wealth and many were actually owned by the French religious orders, this was the excuse Henry was looking for. At first he was reluctant to dissolve them aware of the important spiritual role they had in the nation. On finding the religious house had far greater wealth than his ersonal fortune he became covetous.

One of the main reasons Henry used as an excuse to abolish the monasteries was they were French owned and therefore presented a Catholic threat. The fact is the religious houses could've easily been brought in the Church of England. Henry was no Protestant miltant, he rejected Luther. The real reason the monasteries were dissolved, wasn't doctrinal ,probably not even political and most likely just sheer GREED.



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Old June 9th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #55
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10thc crosses in the churchyard


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Old June 9th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #56
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Old June 9th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #57
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The nave looking east towards the chancel with its canopied stalls and misericords.


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Old June 9th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #58
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The choir stalls with their misericords(apologies for the picture quality)







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Old June 9th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #59
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St Oswald, Ashbourne, Derbyshire.

George Eliot described the church thus: " the finest mere parish church in the kingdom" Mostly dating from the 13th and 15thc's . It has a very fine spire and some excellent Early English work as well as superb monuments.


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Old June 9th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #60
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A very good example of an unrestored doorway in the Early English style, around 1270.


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