Wishful Thinking: Baltimore - OC Transit

[Mirage52]

With Memorial Day behind us and the hellacious back-ups that were encountered on Monday, what do you think about a high-speed line from Baltimore to OC?

Think about it. It's approx. 120 miles from Baltimore to OC following the main route along RT 50. A train that could reach speeds up to 100 MPH could make it there in 70 mins. Once you get to your OC hotel, you really don't need a car to get around. A cargo car at the end of the train could lug a family's luggage and beach gear/toys. There are abandoned rail ROW that could be reclaimed and used for a high-speed train, especially on the eastern shore.

The best part about it is -- no sitting in traffic.

I know it would involve building another bridge, and that comes with its own problems and price tag, but we're talking fantasy here. Maybe.

[pfd103]

Originally Posted by Mirage52

With Memorial Day behind us and the hellacious back-ups that were encountered on Monday, what do you think about a high-speed line from Baltimore to OC?

Think about it. It's approx. 120 miles from Baltimore to OC following the main route along RT 50. A train that could reach speeds up to 100 MPH could make it there in 70 mins. Once you get to your OC hotel, you really don't need a car to get around. A cargo car at the end of the train could lug a family's luggage and beach gear/toys. There are abandoned rail ROW that could be reclaimed and used for a high-speed train, especially on the eastern shore.

The best part about it is -- no sitting in traffic.

I know it would involve building another bridge, and that comes with its own problems and price tag, but we're talking fantasy here. Maybe.

Most likely it would make more sense to put one station in Annapolis or near BWI, and the other in OC (no clue were though). Then the train bridge would be against the current two bay bridges (where the Bay is narrow).

I think I'd rather spend that money for high speed rail between Baltimore and DC though.

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by pfd103

Most likely it would make more sense to put one station in Annapolis or near BWI, and the other in OC (no clue were though). Then the train bridge would be against the current two bay bridges (where the Bay is narrow).

I think I'd rather spend that money for high speed rail between Baltimore and DC though.

Definitely. I would too. However, off the top of my head, it seems like more people go to OC from the area per week in the summer than to DC daily for work. There are already MARC lines to DC and the rail line to OC could be private. The nature of OC in the summer could allow for more trains on Saturdays & Sundays (obviously) and limited weekday service.

It could also be incorporated into the network of high-speed rail.

[LtBk]

I thought about building HSR to Ocean City too. OC is too damn far IMO.

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by LtBk

I thought about building HSR to Ocean City too. OC is too damn far IMO.

Eh, 3 hrs isn't too bad. It's the damn traffic that's the problem.

[smokeybandit]

Wasn't there at one time a plan to make an interstate-quality road the entire way to Ocean City?

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by LtBk

I thought about building HSR to Ocean City too. OC is too damn far IMO.

Eh. It's just about right. We daytripped down there Sunday. Beautiful day. Every race, creed, and color were hunkered down at the inlet beach. Crowded but not too crowded, as it would be if it were easier to get to.

[micrip]

There are about a dozen reasons this will never happen.

A trip to O.C. usually involves 3-4 people and a bunch of stuff, making a vehicle the most convenient and cost effective method. Train fare would probably run at least $100 per person round trip...costing a family of 4 $400 and up. Even if you drive a gas hog, the cost to drive (even counting wear and tear) is under $100, and you will have a vehicle when you get there.

Secondly, I can't imagine much time would be saved and it may even take longer. Drive to departure point, load luggage, wait to leave, etc. plus whatever trasportation arrangements must be made at the other end. On a good day you can make the drive from Annapolis to OC in a little over 2 hours.

And I would imagine a railroad bridge over the bay would be a $2 billion proposition, if it could even be done. If it were to mimic the current bridges, I would think the grade would be a bit steep for trains.

[Gsol]

Originally Posted by micrip

There are about a dozen reasons this will never happen.

A trip to O.C. usually involves 3-4 people and a bunch of stuff, making a vehicle the most convenient and cost effective method. Train fare would probably run at least $100 per person round trip...costing a family of 4 $400 and up. Even if you drive a gas hog, the cost to drive (even counting wear and tear) is under $100, and you will have a vehicle when you get there.

Secondly, I can't imagine much time would be saved and it may even take longer. Drive to departure point, load luggage, wait to leave, etc. plus whatever trasportation arrangements must be made at the other end. On a good day you can make the drive from Annapolis to OC in a little over 2 hours.

And I would imagine a railroad bridge over the bay would be a $2 billion proposition, if it could even be done. If it were to mimic the current bridges, I would think the grade would be a bit steep for trains.

New Yorkers use trains for weekend jaunts to the Hamptons and Fire Isand (no cars allowed). I have spent several summers at FI. We usually take a car to bring stuff out and then bring it back after Labor Day. Otherwise most use the train for the weekend trips. The LIRR with all of its faults is better than driving. There are also very comfortable buses, but the train works best. The FI trip involves a train to the boat (the ferry ride is spectacular, especially at sunset over LI Sound). I think the train would work to OC for times other than loading or unloading the house/condo. But it ain't gonna happen. Can't even provide decent MARC service, how the Hell do you think state planners are going to tackle train service to OC. Come to think of it, there isn't even train service to Annapolis.

[Mirage52]

Of course this will never happen...it was "wishful thinking" after all.

But a HSR to OC would almost definitely be faster than driving, even with all the other stuff involved, especially at peak travel times. Leave for OC on a Saturday morning, it will take you 4 hours to make a trip that should be 2.5.

Coming back home from OC on Sundays are even worse.

[scando]

As W D Shaeffer would say....DO IT NOW! Maglev to the beach sounds great. Suspend it beneath the Bay Bridge and at 200+ MPH you could be on the boards in 45 minutes. It couldn't cost much more than 20 or 30 billion, less than the price of bailing out GM or one Wall Street brokerage and IMO, the benefits would be much bigger, especially for me when I need a Trasher's Fries fix. The prototype technology would benefit the rest of the country....Disneyworld to Daytona, etc.

[Mirage52]

IMO, it makes more sense than this.

http://travel.usatoday.com/destinati...rsy/53876352/1

[LtBk]

Originally Posted by scando

As W D Shaeffer would say....DO IT NOW! Maglev to the beach sounds great. Suspend it beneath the Bay Bridge and at 200+ MPH you could be on the boards in 45 minutes. It couldn't cost much more than 20 or 30 billion, less than the price of bailing out GM or one Wall Street brokerage and IMO, the benefits would be much bigger, especially for me when I need a Trasher's Fries fix. The prototype technology would benefit the rest of the country....Disneyworld to Daytona, etc.

But that will be too socialist. The government shouldn't be in involved in transportation at all. The private sector should do it cause they more efficient. And yes I'm being sarcastic.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by LtBk

But that will be too socialist. The government shouldn't be in involved in transportation at all. The private sector should do it cause they more efficient. And yes I'm being sarcastic.

What government union are you in? You remind me of those GSA fools in Vegas. Don't forget where all the money that government blows comes from. It's easy to do when you didn't earn it and you have no profit motive. Even Marx said socialism wouldn't work without capitalism creating everything for the socialists (who live like capitalists) to redistribute.

[LtBk]

What makes you think I'm in a government union? What's with stupid acquisitions? What the hell does constructing high speed rail have to do with capitalism? Those are mega projects that require government funding to build cause they are too expensive to be build on solely private sector money. They can however allow private companies to run services on railroads, and build trains for the HSR service like they do in other parts of the world provide they put some of their profits to track maintenance and service improvements. Do you think things like Interstate Highway System could have been build by private companies, or major airports with private money? I'm no leftist, but it's funny how the so called "conservatives" oppose things like smart growth and universal health care yet they turn a blind eye to things like corporate bailouts, subsidies for oil companies, and massive military budgets.You are paying for taxes, may as well use it that benefits the country and people.

[k25150]

Your attacks on private business are all over these forums. "What does high speed rail have to do with capitalism"? Where do you think the money came from to allow the government to pay the private firms to build it?

The private sector won't take the lead building high speed rail because it's a loser. Unfeasible and impossible to operate in the black. Everything that urban elitists and politicians want needs to be subsidized. If it made economic sense the private sector would be all over it. I understand the need for a solid bus system and all the reasons that justify it. In fact, I like the idea of HSR. It's simply impractical.

So you don't see the benefit of the massive military budget? Sure the military complex has a strong lobby but I suggest to you revisit your thoughts on us being a super power. Imagine your life if we weren't.

The subsidies for oil companies exist because they are taxed so much. They pay more in taxes than they earn. Where is the outcry for Apple's "obscene" profits? Is Apple considered a cool and hip liberal company while ExxonMobile cna be attacked because oil isn't cool? Where is the liberal outrage over all the failing green companies that took tax payer money? The same industries that also need govt. subsidies because they aren't economically feasible but sound good coming for jackass politician's mouths. Where is the outcry from the left on the skyrocketing costs of college? There is no outcry because the left controls that bastion of indoctrination. Selective opposition. So convenient.

As for corporate bailouts, who bailed out GM and the banks? Obama. There is a thing called bankruptcy. They all should have explored it. I and many others on the right were against all bailouts.

You might not be a total leftist but you seem to harbor envy for others who have more and have accomplished more.

[LtBk]

Your attacks on private business are all over these forums. "What does high speed rail have to do with capitalism"? Where do you think the money came from to allow the government to pay the private firms to build it?

Can you give me proof that I attack private business all over SSC? If HSR is a money loser, that the government shouldn't have built the Interstate Highway System or those massive airport because they require government subsidies to run through taxes and fees from people yet nobody really complains as long as it benefits, and HSR does benefit the general population. See places like Japan for example

So you don't see the benefit of the massive military budget? Sure the military complex has a strong lobby but I suggest to you revisit your thoughts on us being a super power. Imagine your life if we weren't.

Our military budget can be cut in half, and still be a superpower. We don't have to spend $600 billion+ on defense, a lot of it is wasted on stupid wars or weapons we don't need.

The subsidies for oil companies exist because they are taxed so much. They pay more in taxes than they earn. Where is the outcry for Apple's "obscene" profits? Is Apple considered a cool and hip liberal company while ExxonMobile cna be attacked because oil isn't cool? Where is the liberal outrage over all the failing green companies that took tax payer money? The same industries that also need govt. subsidies because they aren't economically feasible but sound good coming for jackass politician's mouths. Where is the outcry from the left on the skyrocketing costs of college? There is no outcry because the left controls that bastion of indoctrination. Selective opposition. So convenient.

Sorry, but that's just logical fallacy.

You might not be a total leftist but you seem to harbor envy for others who have more and have accomplished more.

Again proof it instead of making stupid acquisitions.

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by k25150

The private sector won't take the lead building high speed rail because it's a loser. Unfeasible and impossible to operate in the black. Everything that urban elitists and politicians want needs to be subsidized. If it made economic sense the private sector would be all over it. I understand the need for a solid bus system and all the reasons that justify it. In fact, I like the idea of HSR. It's simply impractical.

Somehow gov't subsidies for highways/roads and gas get lost in the debate when it comes to bashing HSR and the gov't money required to implement it.

I think HSR could be successful if it were built the way it should be...connecting closely located cities like the ones in the NE.

Amtrak insists on running their trains across all of America even though it's much cheaper and convenient to fly when they should be focusing on connecting closely linked cities and competing with buses and airlines.

So it's not that the gov't is going to be involved in HSR -- it's that they're doing stuff the wrong way. And thats the thing -- getting the gov't to do shit the right way.

But it can be done.

[LtBk]

One thing I learned over the years is that the so called "conservatives" aren't really hateful of the government as they claim they are, they just want the government that is more favorable for them.

[k25150]

Originally Posted by LtBk

Can you give me proof that I attack private business all over SSC? If HSR is a money loser, that the government shouldn't have built the Interstate Highway System or those massive airport because they require government subsidies to run through taxes and fees from people yet nobody really complains as long as it benefits, and HSR does benefit the general population. See places like Japan for example



Our military budget can be cut in half, and still be a superpower. We don't have to spend $600 billion+ on defense, a lot of it is wasted on stupid wars or weapons we don't need.



Sorry, but that's just logical fallacy.



Again proof it instead of making stupid acquisitions.

The highway argument is always used. We are a large nation and a nation of cars. I have no idea the fiscal situation of Japanese rail or that of European nations but they are smaller countries. Even Amtrak loses money in the congested NE corridor. Tickets need to be subsidized otherwise no one would ride. Great business model. WHy would HSR be any different.


"One thing I learned over the years is that the so called "conservatives" aren't really hateful of the government as they claim they are, they just want the government that is more favorable for them. "

And the libs don't hate big business as much as they claim because all of their money is invested in those businesses they attack for making profits. They invest in Wall Street and use Wall Street to fund their campaigns while they go on the stump misleading the ignorant about how terrible it is to make money. Hilarious.