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Old April 21st, 2017, 02:29 PM   #2441
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Originally Posted by generalscarr View Post
It is too clunky, especially next go that beautifully slender MetLife building.

I love how you guys announce that you prefer the shape of the ultra thin residential towers' for a giant office building, as if it was even an option.

It's like complaining that subway cars don't look like Lamborghinis.


It is hellova clunky, but most new commercial buildings are in a sprawling graceless indentikit way, it's the nature of economic demands, clunky is in vogue!


This building does have grace though, albeit clunky grace.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 04:18 PM   #2442
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Is it just me? But isn't this as ugly as hell?
Its not that the building is ugly, its that the top is ugly and out of proportion and scale. The building seems to be pretty nice at the base and even up to the top, but i dont know what that little rectangle block on the top is about. It looks like an after thought.

I think the design would have been much more elegant with just a nice cohesive mass at the top rather than 3 little chopped up things...and thats where this building falls apart.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 07:36 PM   #2443
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That tower is,imo,a pure masterpiece,a dazzling piece of elaborate design.
The top makes it iconic!(New york's top five):in a certain way a small cluster above the skyline;BRILLIANT!!
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Old April 21st, 2017, 08:20 PM   #2444
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That tower is,imo,a pure masterpiece,a dazzling piece of elaborate design.
The top makes it iconic!(New york's top five):in a certain way a small cluster above the skyline;BRILLIANT!!
A masterpiece is a far stretch, there's nothing new here or anything being done out of the ordinary. The Chrysler Building is iconic. The Empire State Building is iconic, the Flatiron Building is iconic. Their material, their shapes, their details, their presence in the city and how those factors created their own sense of power and majesty over the other buildings. One Vanderbilt is simply a standard developer project....few details, more space to ensure more profits.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 08:33 PM   #2445
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I still fell that it will blend in nicely into the skyline and become an icon of its own. :-) Especially the transparent lit up roof/spire combination.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 07:06 PM   #2446
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I always thought New York office towers were built to be functional for their intended uses. For example trading floors. Tall thin office towers would not work there IMO.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 07:54 PM   #2447
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It does taper but it's not that thin, especially when you factor in the space conserved (not to mention flexible layouts) of virtually column-less floors.
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 10:43 AM   #2448
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 04:28 PM   #2449
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Quote:
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A masterpiece is a far stretch, there's nothing new here or anything being done out of the ordinary. The Chrysler Building is iconic. The Empire State Building is iconic, the Flatiron Building is iconic. Their material, their shapes, their details, their presence in the city and how those factors created their own sense of power and majesty over the other buildings. One Vanderbilt is simply a standard developer project....few details, more space to ensure more profits.

The ESB and the Chrysler were not designed to be icons of NY, they became that over decades.
They're not iconic because of their material use and detailing, they are just as functional but from a different era, different architectural style.
One Vandy actually has a pretty unique terracotta detailing on the facade (or has that been value engineered out already)
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 04:35 PM   #2450
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ESB and Chrysler were so obviously designed to be icons of NY, that was the whole point of their height race, what are you talking about? And both have been icons of NYC since about 1930/31...

You could have made a point about the Flatiron since that was really just designed to fit that street alignment, that one is true that probably nobody thought at the time of construction that it would become as iconic as it did.
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Old April 24th, 2017, 06:29 AM   #2451
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ESB and Chrysler were so obviously designed to be icons of NY, that was the whole point of their height race, what are you talking about? And both have been icons of NYC since about 1930/31...

You could have made a point about the Flatiron since that was really just designed to fit that street alignment, that one is true that probably nobody thought at the time of construction that it would become as iconic as it did.

When you're in the 'tallest in NYC' category, no tower is aspiring to be less of an icon than the other.
You won't be able to talk to a developer who's putting up a 1000-1400' tower in Manhattan and doesn't want it to be an icon. The driving forces behind design today are radically different from the thirties though.
And so are value engineering practices.

Some towers become truly iconic over history, some don't but it depends on several factors not ONLY their design (which in case of the ESB and Chrysler is obviously incredible).

There are amazing art deco spires downtown that the general public doesn't really know anything about including 40 Wall St that the Chrysler was racing against.
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Old April 25th, 2017, 04:32 PM   #2452
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When you're in the 'tallest in NYC' category, no tower is aspiring to be less of an icon than the other.
You won't be able to talk to a developer who's putting up a 1000-1400' tower in Manhattan and doesn't want it to be an icon. The driving forces behind design today are radically different from the thirties though.
And so are value engineering practices.

Some towers become truly iconic over history, some don't but it depends on several factors not ONLY their design (which in case of the ESB and Chrysler is obviously incredible).

There are amazing art deco spires downtown that the general public doesn't really know anything about including 40 Wall St that the Chrysler was racing against.

Well I think what people are misunderstanding about an 'icon' is that an icon is a defining building of a city - a symbol of what that city is. You cant have the empire state building or chrysler building in another city. It would look ridiculous. It cant be in LA, Shanghai, Chicago, Paris, etc....it would just be absurd. Those buildings belong exactly right where they are and somehow the population's subconscious knows this.

One Vanderbuilt, that disgusting One57 --- those buildings could be in almost any city around the world. They have no meaning, they have no passion, they are more than likely 100% imported materials, everything about them is generic.

Now, sure the developer may aspire to an icon, but no developer will approach an architect and say "design me the next icon" That would be insanity. One, its just such a vague notion that would make the architect assume money is clearly no object. Developers don't want icons, they want money. Example with easy numbers.

Arch: your 10 floor building 10 apartment building that costs 1,000,000. well if you could just squeeze an extra $100,000 from you, you could have the most lovely facade made of local materials.

Dev: But real estate prices are dropping and were trying to corner the market, well lose $10,000 more per apt on average and thats todays going rate. NO, make it glass.
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Old April 25th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #2453
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Old April 26th, 2017, 09:12 PM   #2454
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I want one of those awesome models in my house!
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Old April 26th, 2017, 10:51 PM   #2455
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Floor heights must be monstrously high.

Personally, I don't like all these commercial and residential buildings with tall ceiling heights. If the Empire State Building had the same floors height as this building, it'd be in the top 5 tallest buildings in the world.
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Old April 27th, 2017, 06:24 AM   #2456
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@th3_gr8est


Love the terracotta spandrel detail!
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Old April 27th, 2017, 06:39 AM   #2457
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Originally Posted by Joy Machine View Post
Well I think what people are misunderstanding about an 'icon' is that an icon is a defining building of a city - a symbol of what that city is. You cant have the empire state building or chrysler building in another city. It would look ridiculous. It cant be in LA, Shanghai, Chicago, Paris, etc....it would just be absurd. Those buildings belong exactly right where they are and somehow the population's subconscious knows this.



One Vanderbuilt, that disgusting One57 --- those buildings could be in almost any city around the world. They have no meaning, they have no passion, they are more than likely 100% imported materials, everything about them is generic.



Now, sure the developer may aspire to an icon, but no developer will approach an architect and say "design me the next icon" That would be insanity. One, its just such a vague notion that would make the architect assume money is clearly no object. Developers don't want icons, they want money. Example with easy numbers.



Arch: your 10 floor building 10 apartment building that costs 1,000,000. well if you could just squeeze an extra $100,000 from you, you could have the most lovely facade made of local materials.



Dev: But real estate prices are dropping and were trying to corner the market, well lose $10,000 more per apt on average and thats todays going rate. NO, make it glass.

A: developers totally go and tell architects they want something iconic.

B: people don't only want money. They have egos and aspirations. Many developers want to build a legacy AND have profit.

C: you're totally disregarding market demand: high end NY office space at a premium price - floor to ceiling unobstructed views is what's expected by tenants today. Glass. If you don't deliver what your tenants want, you and your architect can be the greatest design ballerinas, the high end law firm you want to lease your tower to won't care and you'll loose money.
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Old April 27th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #2458
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A: developers totally go and tell architects they want something iconic.

B: people don't only want money. They have egos and aspirations. Many developers want to build a legacy AND have profit.

C: you're totally disregarding market demand: high end NY office space at a premium price - floor to ceiling unobstructed views is what's expected by tenants today. Glass. If you don't deliver what your tenants want, you and your architect can be the greatest design ballerinas, the high end law firm you want to lease your tower to won't care and you'll loose money.
Well I did say they aspire to an icon, but they don't approach saying give me an icon...and with prices in NYC declining, going all in is a big risk. And with technology, what is an icon today? The starchitect buildings aren't making the cut for iconic buildings.... That triangle building by BIG looks cool, but I don't go out of my way to see it. That apt building on the highline by Zaha is completely ridiculous and its little pavilion is a total joke - but everyone takes pictures of HL23. Gehrys buildings here just sit there nearly forgotten.
Now those would be the handful of developers that may have said "I want an icon" and they paid a high price for a highfalutin architect that gave them the same old scripts they use on every other building and it was a failed delivery.

The affluent are leaving NYC. The lower class cant even afford to live in Astoria anymore so they are being forced to live further and further out. Walk around Manhattan, all the businesses are boarded up, even starbucks is closed shop on the corner of Union Sq and moved down the street to a smaller and less prestigious location. Last I've heard, the city is making efforts to stop "parking money in real estate" or laundering foreign money through real estate, so now those 80 million dollar units are slowing down---essentially stopping whatever those people are doing who are ghosting all of these apartments.

To be honest, Ive heard realtors and other architects say the only reason there is so much floor to ceiling glass is to appeal to the Chinese market, thats who moving to NY and thats what they want. But as you know, not every building is floor to ceiling glass and its true, those buildings probably wont appeal to Chinese buyers. Where it seems like the Russians were buying the classic NY style.
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Old April 27th, 2017, 07:59 PM   #2459
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Oh. My. God. The crown of this building is so...orgasmic
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Old April 27th, 2017, 08:02 PM   #2460
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Well I did say they aspire to an icon, but they don't approach saying give me an icon...and with prices in NYC declining, going all in is a big risk. And with technology, what is an icon today? The starchitect buildings aren't making the cut for iconic buildings.... That triangle building by BIG looks cool, but I don't go out of my way to see it. That apt building on the highline by Zaha is completely ridiculous and its little pavilion is a total joke - but everyone takes pictures of HL23. Gehrys buildings here just sit there nearly forgotten.
Now those would be the handful of developers that may have said "I want an icon" and they paid a high price for a highfalutin architect that gave them the same old scripts they use on every other building and it was a failed delivery.

The affluent are leaving NYC. The lower class cant even afford to live in Astoria anymore so they are being forced to live further and further out. Walk around Manhattan, all the businesses are boarded up, even starbucks is closed shop on the corner of Union Sq and moved down the street to a smaller and less prestigious location. Last I've heard, the city is making efforts to stop "parking money in real estate" or laundering foreign money through real estate, so now those 80 million dollar units are slowing down---essentially stopping whatever those people are doing who are ghosting all of these apartments.

To be honest, Ive heard realtors and other architects say the only reason there is so much floor to ceiling glass is to appeal to the Chinese market, thats who moving to NY and thats what they want. But as you know, not every building is floor to ceiling glass and its true, those buildings probably wont appeal to Chinese buyers. Where it seems like the Russians were buying the classic NY style.

Uhhh...hate to break it to you but this is an office building so an entirely different set of dynamics applies here. There's plenty of pent-up demand for new, top-notch space at the expense of the mid-20th century boxes all over Park, Madison, 3rd and 6th.

But if you want to talk residential, prices are only falling at the top of the market, nor are the affluent leaving New York, but rather the middle.
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