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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 03:15 AM   #861
L.A.F.2.
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Glad we'll see this rise, it's just a shame that a historic building must be razed.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 04:41 AM   #862
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Time for an unique skyscraper to be built.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 04:46 AM   #863
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It's hardly historic. It's a modern steel skeleton adorned with 1910s-20s wedding cake masonry. The terra cotta elements are delicious, as is the cornice. All can be salvaged (I'm sure Robert De Niro would love to have them for one of his Tribeca projects) but the rest of the structure is a typical ungainly box. That's why it hasn't been landmarked.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 06:04 AM   #864
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Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
OK guys. some shots I made around the proposed building. Classic HIgh style of Manhattan Gotham architecture. Something tells me that in order to build anything new and huge like this proposed tower they should save the facade of the old building and build from within it and upwards.
The problem is that that can almost never be done, at least not for real towers (instead of just adding a few floors). Midrise buildings just don't have the foundations to support truly tall towers, and you can't build new foundations without tearing them out. You could hollow it out and keep just the facade, but then it would look like a silly cheap thing tacked on, inevitably--think of that church facade that fronts an (admittedly architecturally lacking) NYU dorm in the East Village.

Yes, these buildings are attractive, but there are lot of similar buildings in places that are not in the economic hub of NYC and all of the USA, and these old buildings are woefully underutilized and impractical for modern commerce. In the early 20th century, no one was objecting to tearing down the old because they built attractive new buildings, too, and that should be our mantra.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 06:22 AM   #865
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The problem is that that can almost never be done, at least not for real towers (instead of just adding a few floors). Midrise buildings just don't have the foundations to support truly tall towers, and you can't build new foundations without tearing them out. You could hollow it out and keep just the facade, but then it would look like a silly cheap thing tacked on, inevitably--think of that church facade that fronts an (admittedly architecturally lacking) NYU dorm in the East Village.

Yes, these buildings are attractive, but there are lot of similar buildings in places that are not in the economic hub of NYC and all of the USA, and these old buildings are woefully underutilized and impractical for modern commerce. In the early 20th century, no one was objecting to tearing down the old because they built attractive new buildings, too, and that should be our mantra.
how about this tower
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Old December 13th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #866
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That is in effect what he said although I agree dat this tower doesn't look cheap.
The old building is all but gone.

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You could hollow it out and keep just the facade, but then it would look like a silly cheap thing tacked on,
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Old December 13th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #867
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how about this tower
I think it will be much harder to build a supertall that way!
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Old December 13th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #868
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I say to keep the first 6 floors but get rid of everything above that mid-level cornice. It can be done, and has been done to several buildings, particularly Boston. The Hearst tower was a special case in which they wanted a completely open atrium for the area enclosed by the historic building.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #869
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There should be a law that forbids to build a glass skyscraper over a building that was made with stone and bricks. No matter how much fancy glass goes there, it won't be as memorable or classy as a hand-made structure. With that said, I want that new tower to be built... and then see thousands of people cry over the loss of such a nice building
To be honest I doubt most people would take a second glance at the current building.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #870
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The Hearst Tower was originally supposed to be surmounted by a skyscraper but got stalled at the base by the depression. So for 70 years it was just another 'taxpayer'. This structure is fully built out as is and mating the existing façade with a glassy supertall would be architecturally unsatisfying and logistically difficult, to say the least. But that is being done right now in Boston with the Millennium Tower.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 04:57 AM   #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
how about this tower
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk
The Hearst Tower was originally supposed to be surmounted by a skyscraper but got stalled at the base by the depression. So for 70 years it was just another 'taxpayer'. This structure is fully built out as is and mating the existing façade with a glassy supertall would be architecturally unsatisfying and logistically difficult, to say the least. But that is being done right now in Boston with the Millennium Tower.
Bingo. The Hearst Tower was a special case. The original building was built with the intention of a future tower expansion. This is a rare case of Landmarks approving a tower on top of a Landmarked Building (Steinway also comes to mind, but only the interior of the building is protected).
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Old December 14th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #872
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well, jsut after revisiting the place and thinking of all you guys have written here, the proposal to keep the lower part of the building (facade only) and as desertpunk have said
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It's hardly historic. It's a modern steel skeleton adorned with 1910s-20s wedding cake masonry. The terra cotta elements are delicious, as is the cornice. All can be salvaged (I'm sure Robert De Niro would love to have them for one of his Tribeca projects) but the rest of the structure is a typical ungainly box. That's why it hasn't been landmarked.
(for the future tower or somewhere else perhaps) the original terracotta elements - should be a compromise enough.

The upper portion of the existing building is a pretty thin masonry and steel frame box which is made look beautiful by these architectural elements on the walls and large copper roof soffit with yet more terracotta beautiful elements. in all honesty the elements deserve being saved, while the masonry box itself is nothing that special.

I still believe that a better tower design for this place is in order. Current renders don't show anything that special. This place deserves way more on the sophistication level and height as well. 1500 ft looks much more grand and suitable for the place, given close proximity of pretty big and bulky Panam building.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #873
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I think with the current height of the tower they are pushing it due to the amount of air rights as well as it being office
Here is a diagram of the tower, for an office tower of this height, it is already fairly skinny



There's only so much you can built with limited air rights, although it would be nice to have a 1,500ft tower here
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheSTIG View Post
I think with the current height of the tower they are pushing it due to the amount of air rights as well as it being office
Here is a diagram of the tower, for an office tower of this height, it is already fairly skinny



There's only so much you can built with limited air rights, although it would be nice to have a 1,500ft tower here
If they would abandon this plan of building a tower with slanted sides and concentrate on something more conservative, yet taller - everything is possible. the superstructure can be put on top of almost anything as a decorative element, while the tower itself can be designed differently.

p.s. BTW do you have this diagram full size? thank you in advance
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:19 PM   #875
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I made it on my computer, but when I uploaded it to photobucket it shrunk a lot for some reason D:
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:23 PM   #876
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I made it on my computer, but when I uploaded it to photobucket it shrunk a lot for some reason D:
try Flickr. it is up to 1 terabyte worth of pictures -all free.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 12:16 AM   #877
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I made it on my computer, but when I uploaded it to photobucket it shrunk a lot for some reason D:
On photobucket, when you have an upload page to view, click on the gear icon at top right. Make sure 1024 is selected, along with check in the box for "Display my linked photos in their original sizes". This will allow for posting larger images.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #878
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Use imgur. Easiest most convenient. Photobucket is up there with internet explorer in terms of why the hell are you using this.

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Old December 15th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #879
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Photobucket is awful
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Old December 18th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #880
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