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Old August 18th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #1921
phoenixboi08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
Why do you think everybody love european cities so much? Paris, Rome, Milan, etc? It's because they learned how to preserve not one building, but whole historical landscape (cities, districts) while still managing to adopt them to contemporary times.
There are already whole districts under strict preservation rules -- basically everything between FiDi and southern Midtown. For the rest of the city, the landmarking process is a way to try and create some balance, to protect important and particularly beautiful/architecturally significant buildings without stifling growth. It's not always perfect, and there are certainly some gems that get lost, and the system could potentially be reformed...

But NYC didn't become a political, cultural and economic epicenter by holding fast to old civic values at the expense of modernization. If there is only one place in the US that should always be pushing for bigger and newer developments, it's Midtown freaking Manhattan.
Not to mention that a lot of the Paris people know and love was built in the 19th-20th C....thank Haussmann and Napoleon for that.

Charles Marville, Rue du Jardinet, ca. 1853–70


In any case, there are people that think cities should be preserved in amber.
Luckily, they don't often get their way.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #1922
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Well, and you made great point here:

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People are short-sighted: they'll moan about "lost history" even while they complain about unaffordable rents with their next breath.
This is (at least very closely mirroring) the problem that San Francisco is having right now -- for those of you in Europe that haven't heard, San Francisco's median rent has skyrocketed past NYC to around $3200/month for a 1-bedroom. Citylab has a great article on the topic if you get a chance to give it a read.

But the gist of it is, between the 60s and 90s, SF instituted a number of policies severely limiting new developments in order to preserve the "character" of the city (unlike NY, this was more about overall size and overcrowding concerns, as opposed to architectural, but the NIMBY, anti-development sentiment is the same). As a result, the city is now about 20 years behind on new housing and office units. When coupled with the huge demand of the new start-up economy, housing and office prices have gone through the roof... which in turn has lead to an exodus of long-time residents as they're priced out.

Now for my money, the "character" and "culture" of a city has a lot more to do with the people who live there than the buildings they live and work in. NYC and SF are both seeing the homogenization of their urban populations, which can be directly tied to short-sighted urban planning policies. So choose your battles.

Edit, since we're veering a little off topic:
As it relates to One Vandy, I think one solution that has worked well to cover everyone's bases, is when buildings incorporate their historical forebears into their bases, preserving the facades and treating the new towers like huge additions (Steinway is doing it, Hearst did it fabulously, and there are plenty of other examples around the city). As I mentioned a bit ago, I would be perfectly happy to see One Vandy do the same, but it seems like we're too late to preserve these particular buildings.

Maybe adjustments can be made to DOB policies that would encourage developers to do the same, even in non-landmarked buildings. FAR bonuses maybe? Seems like it would be a win-win for One Vandy to preserve those masonry buildings at its base, and to also stack another several stories on top, no?
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Old August 18th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #1923
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Few people will care about these buildings in the future and they're not unique by any means.
Looks like the 60's attitude is alive and well. Such disregard and 'we know best' attitudes savaged much of Britain, and indeed the rest of the Western worlds finest buildings. Thankfully such attitudes are less prevalent nowadays and mistakes acknowledged but a few cities seem to press on ahead with callous disregard for heritage, NY undoubtedly taking the crown but London cannot be far behind.
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Is it not cruel to let our city die by degrees, stripped of all her proud monuments, until there will be nothing left of all her history and beauty to inspire our children? If they are not inspired by the past of our city, where will they find the strength to fight for her future? Americans care about their past, but for short term gain they ignore it and tear down everything that matters... This is the time to take a stand, to reverse the tide, so that we won't all end up in a uniform world of steel and glass boxes.

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Old August 18th, 2015, 10:55 PM   #1924
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I know what Hausmann did. And I bet you that if he didn't do it, nobody after him would, and now Paris would be more like Rome or Milan in It's structure. Nothing would change. Apart from the cat that there would be a little bit less cars.

Implying historical redevelopments as an example for what to do in modern times is absurd.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 05:58 PM   #1925
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I know what Hausmann did. And I bet you that if he didn't do it, nobody after him would, and now Paris would be more like Rome or Milan in It's structure. Nothing would change. Apart from the cat that there would be a little bit less cars.

Implying historical redevelopments as an example for what to do in modern times is absurd.
....that wasn't my point. Cities change, often quite drastically.
What we see as "historical" and and off-limits, today, often replaced something that also was, at some point.

There's nothing wrong with replacing something if there's adequate benefits from doing so. For what it's worth, the transit and other street improvements coming to the area far outweigh saving the building.

Furthermore, there's nothing about that corridor in midtown that warrants the imposition of incorporating the structure into the development.

We should save our battles and focus on things that actually matter.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 07:46 PM   #1926
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There's nothing wrong with replacing something if there's adequate benefits from doing so.
Benefits for one investor which cares about making money as fast as possible, not city as a whole now and in the future.
Btw, there would be also benefits in demolishing colloseum and instead putting there huge skyscraper. The same mechanism.

Why do you think NYC is so attractive? I'm telling you - it's because of it's old skyscrapers. Not new, old ones.
Without them it would be just another flat HK or Shanghai.

If those buildings were protected, this investor would propadbly buy some 60's box two blocks from there and effect would be similar.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:57 AM   #1927
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Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
In any case, there are people that think cities should be preserved in amber.
Luckily, they don't often get their way.
Well, not even paris is as much preserved as Bruges is. Lucky not every city is like Bruges, or we would have had no free land left on earth. We're supposed to be glad with megacities like New York. They offer us a breath.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #1928
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Benefits for one investor which cares about making money as fast as possible, not city as a whole now and in the future.
Btw, there would be also benefits in demolishing colloseum and instead putting there huge skyscraper. The same mechanism.
I could care less about the skyscraper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
Why do you think NYC is so attractive? I'm telling you - it's because of it's old skyscrapers. Not new, old ones.
Without them it would be just another flat HK or Shanghai.
I'm not arguing to the contrary. I just don't buy this argument that demolishing this building will either result in, or is indicative of, some broad trend in the complete loss of the city's historic building stock.

People who think this seem to be ones who have a weird perception of what the city actually looks like...I'm honestly fine with losing a nondescript building in the CBD, if I'm getting something out of it.

This isn't Penn being demolished for MSG...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
If those buildings were protected, this investor would propadbly buy some 60's box two blocks from there and effect would be similar.
No it wouldn't. They'd search for the cheapest properties to assemble, and do the exact same thing...demolishing a office tower is the epitome of expensive.

Historic does not immediately qualify a building as a landmark. Not the same thing. You're alternative is even less realistic: it would just result in developers buying, elsewhere, in the city (say, the westside) and demolishing even better stock, there. The really valuable stuff is staying, the stuff that isn't will go.

Nothing to cry over. The city is in no way close to losing any historic character. Period.

I've worked with landmark preservationists, and SHPOs and I can assure you that no one would think twice about not saving this building...it doesn't contribute anything to the district, it's not an important resource, and has no symbolism or historical merit...it's just a pretty building (hint: that's why the project made it through the reviews).

I'd rather the city be functional than simply pretty.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:45 PM   #1929
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I walked past the buildings that are being demolished hundreds of times, and hardly noticed them, aside from killing time at Modell's while waiting for a train a Grand Central. They're nice enough, and part of the old stone and masonry "bones" of Manhattan, but they're not particularly noteworthy.

If they were being torn down for glass office buildings of similar volume, that would be a shame. But as they are being replaced by a spectacular 1400-foot tower that will provide crucial class-A office space in the heart of midtown (and right next to Grand Central) that might have public viewing platform at the top, it seems less of a loss.

BTW, at the landmarks map site, if you click on the little link icon, you can create a link with the zoom setting denoted.

Here is a look at the landmark density from the link in the post above:




Live link:

http://maps.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/...DMARK_INTERIOR
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Old August 20th, 2015, 08:55 PM   #1930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
People are short-sighted: they'll moan about "lost history" even while they complain about unaffordable rents with their next breath.
Cough San Francisco.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #1931
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this is just my opinion but are there any other renders for this building cuz my tastes differ from that render with the spire on top, myb get rid of it and it'd look better? but Im not a fan of it
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Old August 21st, 2015, 02:08 AM   #1932
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The KPF Renderings are the best
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Old August 28th, 2015, 05:35 PM   #1933
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in case that we have this one what do you think ?
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Old August 28th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #1934
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in case that we have this one what do you think ?
Which architect designed this? Was it a rejected design or a random mockup?

I like it, but it would fit in better at the Hudson Yards, the current 1 Vanderbilt design is a perfect fit for its location and complements the Chrysler Building very well and truly gives off a NYC vibe.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 07:29 PM   #1935
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Sacre pecus! That's fantastic.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 07:36 PM   #1936
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Our current design is better and more "New York".. but that's a lovely design as well, would look lovely in Hudson Yards as CityGuy said
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Old August 28th, 2015, 07:56 PM   #1937
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Whoooooa, where on earth did that come from? The existing design has grown on me, but I like that glass shard one hell of a lot. The only thing the KPF design has over it is the textured terracotta facade.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 10:41 PM   #1938
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WOW!

I'm going to go ahead and guess that's a fantasy
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Old August 28th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #1939
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Yeah, apparently this is a megatall "hobby study" by Gabor Cseh. Still, it is beautiful, and could be helpful in visualizing what kind of impact the other Vanderbilt Corridor towers could have someday.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 11:13 PM   #1940
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Yeah, apparently this is a megatall "hobby study" by Gabor Cseh. Still, it is beautiful, and could be helpful in visualizing what kind of impact the other Vanderbilt Corridor towers could have someday.
Rumor has it one could be higher than Vanderbilt itself. I sure hope it looks similar to that one
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