search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > United States > Southeast > Local Forums > Miami

Miami Includes Broward and Palm Beach Counties
» Development News



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:02 AM   #1
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,621
Likes (Received): 22434

South Florida Transportation Thread

Wanted to start a thread on the many forms of transportation in South Florida! Although we are not Chicago, or DC when it comes to mass transit, we give many other cities a run, and I'm thankful for what we do have. I'm also glad that our city has taken the intiative in expanding our mass transit options within the next 2 decades

Post your thoughts on anything that has to do with transportation, your views on the Baylink project and other street car proposals (in Miami and Ft Lauderdale), Is it Really needed? What about the plans for a tunnel under government cut (between Watson Island and the Port of Miami), or the plans to put I-395 below-grade, are these needed too? The new intermodal center by the airport, the County-wide Metrorail Expansion Plan. Is metromover and/or metrorail a success, or a failure, or somewhere in between? What about Highway construction in Miami, do we need more of it, do the current ones need expansion (which ones?)?
We can discuss successes, what needs improvement, post pics, anything!
You don't have to answer all of these questions at once, but give your thoughts!


Here are some photos that show our already-awesome infrastructure!











The Edge of downtown



















Downtown Kendall, 20 miles from downtown Miami














Tri-rail commuter train


71-mile corridor from West Palm Beach to Miami


__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post

Last edited by streetscapeer; November 18th, 2004 at 12:25 AM.
streetscapeer no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:09 AM   #2
Toucano
Gator Moderator
 
Toucano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Miami
Posts: 926
Likes (Received): 651

I Like the Idea of this thread, Great Pics...I cant wait to see the first new lines of metrorail or the LRTs...
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Toucano no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:12 AM   #3
Toucano
Gator Moderator
 
Toucano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Miami
Posts: 926
Likes (Received): 651

HERE are My Thoughts on some general Subjects from a previous thread:
Sorry about the double posting of the same info, enjoy:

The problem here is, is that while it is that true that Tri-Rail does offer a viable solution to I-95, too many people like to have their giant SUVs with them when they inch along the highway at 25MPH or less during their 2 or 3 hour long commute to work. The proper thing to do here is to quit trying to appeal to the needs of vehicles in this state and start trying to appeal to people. Too many complexes’ are being built with vehicles in mind rather than people (What does that mean? Developers have stopped creating pedestrian friendly areas for shopping, living, or working). Unfortunately this has been the culmination of events starting with the suburbanization of America which mainly began in the 1950s and is now posing a huge problem for nearly all American cities. Malls are planned with one thing in mind; parking. Brickell Ave. home to many of Miami’s tallest buildings are so far apart and highly inaccessible by foot almost entirely due to people’s desire to live a gated community that they can drive their car into. Many streets are so hostile (40 MPH or greater) that you see virtually no pedestrian activity and nearly all stores, businesses, and residences are recessed from the streets to allow for parking or huge signs which can be seen better when drivers are speeding by.
Americans as a whole have become too attached to their cars and it is not an easy task for engineers such as myself to overcome. Streets simply cannot continue to widen. There is not enough money to widen them and the damage they would cause to the environment would be insane. The only feasible plan to start getting Americans out of their cars again is to create viable Mass-Transportation options which are appealing enough to the average commuter. Studies have shown that most people (Americans) are unlikely to travel to work on heavy rail type commuter trains (Hence: Metrorail and Tri-Rail, however this is not the main cause for their dismal ridership). This has recently created the advent of light rail train projects in many major cities across the USA including Houston and Phoenix. The Average commuters are more likely to ride light-rail than any other form of mass transit including Busses and Heavy Rail and light-rail is one of the few forms of transportation which do not seriously degrade the pedestrian atmosphere in most urban areas. Unfortunately, we are not going to see any more significant improvements though in Tri-rail's usage until the mass-transportation system in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties is significantly improved or sanctions are placed on the widening of Highways (Like I-95, where preliminary plans were made to widen it further possibly to 16 lanes!). Studies have also shown that on streets with major bus travel, have decreased in pedestrian activity and have Lowered The Overall Quality Of Life in the given area.
Now, Comparing the High Speed rail to Tri-Rail is like comparing apples and Oranges in the sense of what type of rider you are trying to attract with each. Amtrak provides a better comparison but we are hoping that the High speed Rail would provide better service than Amtrak and something more comparable to the very successful routes in Europe and Japan. Just so you all know though that one of the Most successful routes Amtrak runs is from Miami to New York City which travels I believe 3 times a day and is almost always sold out.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Toucano no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:23 AM   #4
The Mad Hatter!!
P.E.C.K CREW
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: miami
Posts: 2,994
Likes (Received): 631

my opinon is mass transit is good in sf,of course it could get better by expanding and decreasing the amount of waiting time,the baylink i feel is needed,and other expansion projects like intermodal.and metrorail has been a success in my opinon,it maynot have the ridership the new york subway has but its doing a good job at moving a large amount of people.also i wish the expansion of the metrorail would of started ten years ago but im glad its getting started.

and great pics street.

oh i forgot i-395 should be put below grade or maybe a tunnel because right now its the only thing stoping that area from becoming great.
__________________
"Architects are pretty much high-class whores. We can turn down projects the way they can turn down some clients, but we've both got to say yes to someone if we want to stay in business"Philip Johnson

Boycott the La forum-Worse forum in SSC
The Mad Hatter!! no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:33 AM   #5
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,621
Likes (Received): 22434

Great analysis Toucano

These are the proposed rail corridors for the county expansion project


__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
streetscapeer no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:58 AM   #6
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,621
Likes (Received): 22434

Chuckscraper was right when he said that they were building a highway-like roadway near the airport! It looks like it goes from the 112 expressway south to the 395...





Sept 2004







on-ramp/or off ramp













I really feel like this is needed...traffic is horrible on Lejeune Rd. Anyone who has gone to the Airport using the Dolphin Expressway (836) knows that you must get off the highway at Lejeune and then travel a few blocks to enter the airport, it's the same situation going the other way from the airport to the dolphin expressway. This creates a massive crunch (especially during rush hour) and many dramtic lane changes, it gravely disrupts the flow of traffic in the area, and can be quite dangerous at times.


This is what the Dolphin Expressway/836 (near the airport's Lejeune on and off ramps) looks like!





And everyone, make sure to check out the MIC website , it has been updated with new pics, videos, and slide shows
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post

Last edited by streetscapeer; November 18th, 2004 at 01:03 AM.
streetscapeer no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 12:58 AM   #7
Roark
BANNED
 
Roark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,888
Likes (Received): 1051

From working on Brickell and spending lots of time in the CBD, the MetroMover is worth it's weight in gold. At a Billion $ it was a steal! Not too many complaints with the Metromover or Rail except that connectivity to the MIC and the Beach will be great improvements.
Dadeland Station is brilliant. The idea of a Park and Ride Structure, with a MetroRail Station, and Big Box retail stacked high is great. This is the likely model for the Potamkin site (Alton / 5th St) on Miami Beach.
As for this high speed rail to connect the penninsula that is Florida...I'm not buying it. Keep the dollars here locally and improve the infrastructure. We should accept and have some State level coordination efforts so that there is seemless connectivity to Broward and Palm Beach counties so that we aren't a protectionist county, but to have the State tax then dictate a train that will go to Pennsecola/Ocala/Melbourne etc just does not make sense to me.

PS. Are those new roads around MIA going to connect to the Miami Intermodal Center?
Roark no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 01:05 AM   #8
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,621
Likes (Received): 22434

..I have no idea, maybe someone else has some info!!
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
streetscapeer no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 01:21 AM   #9
MIAballinboi
Registered User
 
MIAballinboi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 1160

great thread
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
MIAballinboi no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 01:38 AM   #10
nimbyhater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,286
Likes (Received): 418

yes they are roark, itll all b a big web, its gonna b great, i wanna encourage u 2 the site, cause itll explain everything better than i ever could, and its a great site, with lots of information (in my opinion, dade county has always had great sites, theyres main one is really nice as far as county sites go)...

great thread, no on thing is the answer, a large number of projects that include cummuter train, high speed, heavy rail, light rail, street car, pedestrian fiendly development... all put together, those will solve our problems, its a long process, that takes a long time to get rite, but well get it in the end, through some trial, but were takin a step in the rite direct, that half penny sales tax is a god send, if the county commisioners would stop worryin so much about themselves being in charge of everything (theyve already stripd a great deal of power from the mayor, a position that was greated less than a decade ago) the citizen review board, or w/w it is, could work out wat the hell is goin on, and some stuff would actually get done, i think itll b 30 or 40 years before we start to see a truely good massive public transportation system that would connect any1 and eliminate the need for a car throught the area, untill then, baby steps...
nimbyhater no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:04 AM   #11
miamicanes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 904
Likes (Received): 181

Burying I-395 would be just about the most financially reckless and stupid thing the government could possibly do. Keep in mind that burying it will cost at least $500-700 million dollars. Just to give a feel for how much money that really is, it cost less than $300 million to completely demolish and rebuild I-95 in Broward County into the spectacular road it is today.

People who argue that I-395 is the reason why Overtown is a slum are full of $#!t. State Road 878 is just as elevated, and passes through an area that's almost entirely residential. It doesn't seem to have hurt adjacent property values in the least. While I'm at it, I might also point out that I-95 passes within inches of plenty of ungodly expensive real estate in Brickell. I doubt you could touch a plutonium-contaminated woodshed on a 25x25 foot lot in that area for less than a quarter-million dollars.

Give developers a few more years to bulldoze and redevelop Overtown into a wealthy bayfront community with tall skyscrapers and prohibitively expensive townhomes, and people will look back on quotes made by people about Overtown and 395 today and laugh at the sheer naivete. And hopefully breathe a sigh of relief that the cash was used to widen 836, accelerate the construction of Central Parkway, and (god forbid) maybe a few other badly-needed projects, like extending 878 all the way west to the turnpike, or building a pair of ramps from westbound 878 to northbound 826, and from southbound 826 to eastbound 878 (so people trying to get from the Palmetto to US-1 can take a detour around all the new traffic around Downtown Dadeland). Or even pay half the $2 billion cost of building Metrorail to South Beach as a real subway

Last edited by miamicanes; November 18th, 2004 at 04:17 AM.
miamicanes no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:11 AM   #12
ChuckScraperMiami#1
Registered User
 
ChuckScraperMiami#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MIAMI
Posts: 7,364
Likes (Received): 22074

TRUE MIAMICANES , Enough SAID !!!, ITS NOT going to WORK, Even That STUPID Port of MIAMI TRUCK TUNNEL under the PORT CHANNEL, is the MOST DUMB PLAN the County has ever COME UP with, and ALL THAT WASTE of MONEY on its STUDY , YOUR TAX DOLLARS, WASTED, Just KEEP I-395 THE WAY it IS , its NOT that , ITS I-95, that Needs A PLAN.
ChuckScraperMiami#1 no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:18 AM   #13
Dale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,146
Likes (Received): 5492

Is there a general feeling that the money allocated from the People's Transportion Plan (sounds communist) is being well-spent, that some tangible improvements are already evident ?

I ask because I thought I'd read a while back that the proposed improvements were getting bogged down already.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Dale no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:20 AM   #14
Roark
BANNED
 
Roark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,888
Likes (Received): 1051

Excellent Nimby...I didn't notice that link at the end of your post the first time. Lot's of great maps and virtual tours. Can't wait for the updated videos showing water taxis to Brickell!!
Roark no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:30 AM   #15
miamicanes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 904
Likes (Received): 181

Quote:
Is there a general feeling that the money allocated from the People's Transportion Plan (sounds communist) is being well-spent
Hell no. It's being shamelessly squandered on stupid things like free transit passes for students and the elderly. I think it's safe to say that 99% of the people who supported the tax did so for exactly one reason -- they want to see construction crews out building new Metrorail lines and stations.

This is pre-PTP, but a perfect example is the new Palmetto Station. I'm not going to attack the wisdom of spending $70 million to extend it 1.5 miles to attract (in their own words) about 5,000 new riders a day (at which rate it will take 135 years to pay off the cost, assuming zero operating or maintenance costs) because I think the station will probably spark a major redevelopment of that whole area into another version of Dadeland Station (once crews finish rebuilding the Hialeah Expressway to make 74th at 826 easily accessible to downtown Hialeah, you can kiss all the industry within a half mile from the station goodbye because that's going to be PRIME retail and residential property).

What I AM going to attack is the stupidity of NOT building it the last 2 miles west to 107th avenue. Right now (but not for long), there's NOTHING out there, so they could just run the tracks at ground level with a wall on both sides. As roads expand to the north and the area builds up, they could build tunnels over the tracks like they did in Northern Virginia (it's a lot cheaper to run a road 10 feet up and over a pair of tracks than it is to run a pair of tracks 25 feet up and over a much, much wider road).
miamicanes no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 03:33 PM   #16
dave8721
Registered User
 
dave8721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Miami and Boston
Posts: 6,449
Likes (Received): 6368

[QUOTE=miamicanes]Hell no. It's being shamelessly squandered on stupid things like free transit passes for students and the elderly. I think it's safe to say that 99% of the people who supported the tax did so for exactly one reason -- they want to see construction crews out building new Metrorail lines and stations.

Don't forget Sidewalks. A huge chunk of the PTP money was used to pay to make sidewalks and bus stops ADA complient, every intersection in the county has to have a ramp for wheelchairs to access the sidewalk and bus stops. Also, every municipality gets a chunk of the money to spend on completely unrelated things like fixing pot holes and sewers.

The problem with all of the proposed Metrorail expansions is that they are simply too late. It will cost billions just to acquire the land to build on much less build it. All of this should have been done in the 80's but at that time suburban mall culture gripped America and mass transit took a back seat. Now it is going to take another 20 years (at least) to build and by that time the traffic might have gotten to bad everyone may just pack up and move and there would be no need to expansion. You do have to love our current Metrorail layout though: "It takes people from where they aren't and brings them to where they dont want to go". The problem is that we need every single one of those expansions and we need them all now, not 20 to 30 years from now.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
dave8721 no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 03:43 PM   #17
Dale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,146
Likes (Received): 5492

Here's what's happening:

www.trafficrelief.com
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Dale no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:12 PM   #18
jzquince69
jimmy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: orlando
Posts: 2,891
Likes (Received): 1783

Hey Streetscaper, go to the MIC website (intermodal center) and the direct connection to take autos off of LeJeune is a major component. they have a mini-movie you can watch. I had no idea they already started that portion of it.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
jzquince69 no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 04:50 PM   #19
jzquince69
jimmy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: orlando
Posts: 2,891
Likes (Received): 1783

Guys, What Miami metro has is good:
Metromover loops downtown in roughly the same scale as the Chicago Loop loops the Loop (confused?). I did a scale map comparison once for shits and giggles.

Secondly, Metrorail, which is similar to MARTA and DC's Metro, services the city limits I guess adequately and Hialeah and Dadeland.

Third, Tri-Rail (I don't have the link right now but do a google search or link via miamidade.gov), is just like Chicagoland's METRA, which has maybe ten or more lines that go as far as South Bend to the East and as far north as Racine Wisconsin with double-decker cars that service most of those routes. Miami's is, what, 72 miles long- AND, it is being "double-tracked" because of increase in ridership along with modernization of several stations in Broward and PB counties. That is exciting. They just need to finish the MIC and promote mixed use projects at other Tri-Rail stations.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
jzquince69 no está en línea  
Old November 18th, 2004, 05:28 PM   #20
jzquince69
jimmy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: orlando
Posts: 2,891
Likes (Received): 1783

Here's what I think. The most economically feasible thing to do for the city is to promote the construction of residential towers near the Metromover stations (which is happening). Next, once the double-tracking of Tri-Rail's main I-95 line is complete and turnaround time is cut to under 20 minutes per train, more riders will use it, and a second line could be routed towards west Broward and miami-Dade, and also the East Miami-Dade and east broward corridor (check the website for the MIC and future expansion of mass transit system).

All they have to do with Tr-Rail is lease the track from CSX or whoever owns the track. Then, they can double-track for more efficiency. It's gotta be much cheaper than a concrete elevated Metrorail line. But, Metrorail does not have to be elevated exclusively. London's Tube is sub and at-grade. Chicago's MTA trains are elevated and at-grade and subway. NYC too. As long as the track is already there, it's cheaper to do.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
jzquince69 no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu