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Old June 21st, 2012, 01:39 PM   #21
Satyricon84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
This happened like 10 years ago. I remember 36+36 euros, but I may remember wrong.
At any rate the fine for ZTL is insane and injust for the seriousness of the offence. The same amount applied for these fines too: driving without glasses or contact lens (required on the license), driving with a temporary lack of phisical requirments (example driving with broken arm), driving without seat belts and driving a moto without helmet. All things adamantly more dangerous than to drive in ZTL zone but fined in the same way.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:05 PM   #22
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In Catalonia there is a great way to avoid parking fines: Language issues . There, almost all signs are written only in Catalan, and if you get a fine you can argue the sign was not written in Spanish (As it MUST be). They must have to let you get away without the fine.

And I like the way they fine in Switzerland. They calculate the fines in base to the income. Some time ago, I've heard that someone, due to speeding, got a 200,000 EUR fine! I don't know if higher fines had been reported.

Back to Spain, I really like this speed camera. Since it's located just after 70 km/h limit sign, it's the national champion in number of fines. I only have driven through it once with a van that was caught twice in two days by that camera, and I have seen it catching a car.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:08 PM   #23
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
At any rate the fine for ZTL is insane and injust for the seriousness of the offence. The same amount applied for these fines too: driving without glasses or contact lens (required on the license), driving with a temporary lack of phisical requirments (example driving with broken arm), driving without seat belts and driving a moto without helmet. All things adamantly more dangerous than to drive in ZTL zone but fined in the same way.
It's not that ZTL fines are too high compared to others. To me, other fines are too low compared to ZTL fines.

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In Catalonia there is a great way to avoid parking fines: Language issues . There, almost all signs are written only in Catalan, and if you get a fine you can argue the sign was not written in Spanish (As it MUST be). They must have to let you get away without the fine.
Really? LOL! I guess the only difference between Catalan and Castilian is an apostrophe or something like that...
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:13 PM   #24
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Yup! But is not that the difference. Spanish and Catalan are two different languages. The official language in all Spain is Spanish (Castilian), so all signs in the country must be written in Spanish. But in Catalonia, where both Spanish and Catalan are official, the later one is far more used. I've read that someone is exploiting this "bug": If he sees a no parking sign, and the explanation below is only written in Catalan, he parks where is forbidden.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
In Catalonia there is a great way to avoid parking fines: Language issues . There, almost all signs are written only in Catalan, and if you get a fine you can argue the sign was not written in Spanish (As it MUST be). They must have to let you get away without the fine.

....
In the mid-80s, someone contested a ticket in the Canadian province of Manitoba on the grounds that the law he'd supposedly violated was passed by the legislature in English only, rather than English and French.*

The Supreme Court of Canada ordered the province to pass French versions of all its existing laws, and pass them in both languages in the future. They didn't let this guy off his ticket. (They'd have had to invalidate every ticket, and not just tickets, going back nearly a century....) The case now shows up in texts to explain why Manitoba has to do this.


*The legal issue, if anyone's interested (and if I'm remembering correctly what I read), is that the law creating the province required its legislature to pass laws in both languages. 20 years, and lots of settlers, later, the now-overwhelmingly-English-speaking province decided it didn't need to do that any more. 95 years after that, this guy challenges this ticket and it goes to the Supreme Court of Canada, which says Mabitoba couldn't unilaterally change a requirement imposed on it by Federal law.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:19 PM   #26
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I know all of this, but all the Catalan signs I saw were completely understandable by Castilian speakers. I mean, is that so difficult to understand "aparcament prohibit" instead of "Aparcamiento prohibido"?

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Yup! But is not that the difference. Spanish and Catalan are two different languages. The official language in all Spain is Spanish (Castilian), so all signs in the country must be written in Spanish. But in Catalonia, where both Spanish and Catalan are official, the later one is far more used. I've read that someone is exploiting this "bug": If he sees a no parking sign, and the explanation below is only written in Catalan, he parks where is forbidden.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It's not that ZTL fines are too high compared to others. To me, other fines are too low compared to ZTL fines.



Really? LOL! I guess the only difference between Catalan and Castilian is an apostrophe or something like that...
Actually, written Catalan looks to me like a cross between Spanish and French. Interesting-looking language, too, which I'd learn if I had the time. Just for fun. (I have weird ideas about what's fun.)
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:23 PM   #28
g.spinoza
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Actually, written Catalan looks to me like a cross between Spanish and French. Interesting-looking language, too, which I'd learn if I had the time. Just for fun. (I have weird ideas about what's fun.)
I see very few differences between the two. For an Italian mothertongue Catalan is easier to read, but probably Spanish is easier to speak.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
In Catalonia there is a great way to avoid parking fines: Language issues . There, almost all signs are written only in Catalan, and if you get a fine you can argue the sign was not written in Spanish (As it MUST be). They must have to let you get away without the fine.
COOL, good to know when I'm visiting Barcelona some day!

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Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
And I like the way they fine in Switzerland. They calculate the fines in base to the income. Some time ago, I've heard that someone, due to speeding, got a 200,000 EUR fine! I don't know if higher fines had been reported.
Could you mean this one? It is a well-known case of a Swedish Gypsy speeding at 290km/h on the motorway near Fribourg.

http://archives.24heures.ch/actu/sui...nal-2011-10-04

The fine they indicated is "only" about CHF 60'000,- however. Although it was done in a rather expensive sports car (initially seized by the police), the trespasser's lawyer says his client is living on welfare at some CHF 1'000,- per month.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:12 PM   #30
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My fines record in Europe:

Belgium:
Traveling at 140 km/h on the E40 near Jabbeke, on my way to Calais to get a ferry. A motorcop pulls me into the services at Jabbeke, and buys me a coffee inside. After chatting about my job and his family life, he still issues a 200 euro on the spot fine.

E411 between Namur and Arlon, a week later. Again doing 140. Unmarked car guides me off the motorway, and again a 200 euro on the spot fine.

France:
Belgian/French border Tournai-Lille. French customs decided I bought too many cigarettes in Luxembourg, and made me pay the duty for it. Never got done for speeding in France.

Italy:
After delivery in Monaco, I was on my way to Rome. I wasn`t in a hurry, and wanted to swim in the sea. Drove into Portofino on the Italian Riviera, and did not notice the signs, prohibiting vehicles over 7 metres. My van is 7.5 metres, and the local police charged me 75 euros.

Netherlands:
Doing 130 instead of 100 on the A27 at Utrecht, I ended up paying 280 euros on the spot fine. Even though I have A Dutch passport, I was living in England (still am partly) and was driving an English reg van, hence the reason I had to pay the fine on the spot.

Sweden:
Doing 130 instead of 110 on E4 near Linköping. Was on my way to Stockholm to catch a ferry to Helsinki. Got issued with a ticket, and had to pay roughly 300 euros at a local postoffice.

England:
Every once in a while I get a ticket, usually pay 60 pounds fixed penalty.

Austria:
Zell am Ziller: 10 km too fast, 10 euros to pay.
A12 Innsbruck-Wörgl: Speeding and tailgathing. 60 euros to pay.

Germany:
In Germany all vans are supposed to have a logbook, with driving times written on it. Don't have one, and police in Straubing passed my details on to the BAG. 4 weeks later I receive a penalty notice of 80 euros at my home in England.

That's all folks...
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:21 PM   #31
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I guess your boss didn't pay for the Italian ticket.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:39 PM   #32
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I guess your boss didn't pay for the Italian ticket.
He surely doesn't know about its existence.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM   #33
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I did tell him, but no - he did not pay for them. But I can go wherever I want in that van, as long as I get the deliveries done on time.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:43 PM   #34
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It was not technically a fine, but once (2007) I had to pay CHF 500 for getting my car back from the impounding lot. I had traveled to Zurich with friends, the hotel in question (in the middle of an industrial park near the airport) had its own garage full, the receptionist told me I could leave the car in a place marked with yellow line in front of the hotel (in the hotel's driveway, no other building in front, no other property accessed from there - look it here http://goo.gl/maps/ngKM).

Next morning - guess what - the car wasn't there. For two minutes I thought of theft, then rushed to the reception where the lady told me they called a towing company because my car (+ 3 other cars that were parked in the same "forbidden" area) was blocking the hotel shuttle.

Long story short I did complain to the manager (it was an hotel employee who told me to park there), and after a negative review on a website + email to the costumer service the refunded me CHF 400.

The only upside is that at the time CHF 500 was less then € 300 :O
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Old June 21st, 2012, 07:55 PM   #35
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I did tell him, but no - he did not pay for them. But I can go wherever I want in that van, as long as I get the deliveries done on time.
I guess you also have to pay for fuel in your detours?
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Old June 21st, 2012, 07:59 PM   #36
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Nope, never.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 09:22 PM   #37
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Nope, never.
Can you suddenly drive from Mayrhofen to - say - Faro, Portugal, on your company's expense account for the lulz?
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Old June 21st, 2012, 09:42 PM   #38
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I could I suppose...
But whenever I go up to Scandinavia, I take a little diversion via Sneek, NL for example, to see my family, and they know that, and they don't mind that. One time I delivered in Monaco on a Friday, and been told to stay in France as there would be a reload for me in Paris the following Monday. But I didn't want to stay in my van all weekend, so I went to Mayrhofen instead (this was before I moved here)
My fuelcards:
This one pays the toll in France and Spain as well...

Cheaper diesel at unmanned stations.
pays the tolls in Italy.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 09:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK
pays the tolls in Italy.
Telepass is faster
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 10:57 PM   #40
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I could I suppose...
But whenever I go up to Scandinavia, I take a little diversion via Sneek, NL for example, to see my family, and they know that, and they don't mind that. One time I delivered in Monaco on a Friday, and been told to stay in France as there would be a reload for me in Paris the following Monday. But I didn't want to stay in my van all weekend, so I went to Mayrhofen instead (this was before I moved here)
Why don't you use something like this

http://www.tolltickets.com/default.a...ng=en-GB&mnu=c
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