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Old June 21st, 2012, 11:32 PM   #41
Road_UK
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Thanks for the link, I've added it to my favourites. I don't really know why my boss never went for the Liber-T option in France, but the Eurotrafic card works just as good. The only tolls I ever have to pay in cash, are the ones in the UK (Dartford and Severn Bridge I use mainly) as they simply don`t accept cards. M6 Toll accepts Eurotrafic these days. And then of course I have to pay cash in Oslo or Poland, but that's never that much anyway.

But we were talking about fines. I think it's a bloody disgrace that people have to pay because they drive a little too fast!
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Old June 21st, 2012, 11:47 PM   #42
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Telepass is faster
But requires an Italian bank account.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 11:49 PM   #43
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We used to get our Via cards of an Italian transport company, but our cards are now linked to Eurotrafic (France).
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 12:26 PM   #44
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In Spain penalties are fixed. Lowest is 100€, which you can cut to 50€ if you pay in 15 days time and don't appeal to it.

In case they didn't identify the driver (i.e. a backward-facing speed camera), they will issue the ticket to the owner of the vehicle. If he or she refuses to tell who was driving the car, they may charge up to 3x the amount of the ticket, but noone will get points taken off his license.

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In Catalonia there is a great way to avoid parking fines: Language issues . There, almost all signs are written only in Catalan, and if you get a fine you can argue the sign was not written in Spanish (As it MUST be). They must have to let you get away without the fine.
I don't know from anyone that has successfully beaten a ticket arguing this. And I don't think there will ever be someone. As of today, I credit this as a hoax.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 01:29 PM   #45
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In case they didn't identify the driver (i.e. a backward-facing speed camera), they will issue the ticket to the owner of the vehicle. If he or she refuses to tell who was driving the car, they may charge up to 3x the amount of the ticket, but noone will get points taken off his license.
It's exactly like in Italy (just here you are not charged by 3x the amounth of the ticket, but 2x or 270€ depends the kind of infraction). Just another way for rich people to save their points on the driving license....
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 02:16 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
It's exactly like in Italy (just here you are not charged by 3x the amounth of the ticket, but 2x or 270€ depends the kind of infraction). Just another way for rich people to save their points on the driving license....
Yep. Plus, Spanish justice says you're innocent until proven guilty, and with this law it is not definitely that way. I mean, other countries like Germany require a picture of your face, so they know you were actually driving the vehicle, and they will not ticket you if it is not visible.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 02:43 PM   #47
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Yep. Plus, Spanish justice says you're innocent until proven guilty, and with this law it is not definitely that way. I mean, other countries like Germany require a picture of your face, so they know you were actually driving the vehicle, and they will not ticket you if it is not visible.
Just to "refine" this a little bit: If in Germany a vehicle violating the rules has been photographed, the normal process is to send an investigation form to the vehicle registrant. He has therein the possibility of revealing the trespasser's identity, as well as give other statements concerning the case.

Now, if no action is taken by the vehicle registrant upon reception of this form, the authorities often (not always) assume he himself is the guilty and send the fine to him. If thereafter he is not recurring against it, the fine becomes effective (rechtskräftig), no matter who was the actual driver.

If he takes action against the fine, however, be it by simply claiming he was not driving the vehicle, then the authorities need the face photo if they try to prove who it was. If the photo is unrecognizable, or does not show the car registrant, then the latter will have to be acquitted.

Of course it is not as simple as that. If the registrant refuses to "help" authorities in finding the driver, and the authorities do not find him, then an obligation of driver logging (Fahrtenbuchauflage) may be imposed on the registrant - for all of his present and future vehicles for a specified time, typically 6 months or a year. Failure to produce the logs when required by the authority is thenan infraction "worth" 50 euros and 1 Flensburg point.

Last edited by Corvinus; June 22nd, 2012 at 02:54 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:00 PM   #48
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Thanks for clearing this out, thought it was way simpler.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 01:43 AM   #49
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Is there in any other country a law that forbids to leave the car with engine running if your are stopped, just to make the air conditioned working? In Italy you risk a fine from 205 to 410 euro for this. I wonder also how truckers can sleep in summer or winter with temperature below zero without air or heating that goes only with engine running. Or simply can drive when your car was under the sun all day long with 50°C inside and the sterling wheel is burning. Imho, this law is stupid and completely useless....
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Old June 25th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #50
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In Poland it is forbidden to leave your engine running too.
Truckers have heating and ac system independent from truck's engine.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Is there in any other country a law that forbids to leave the car with engine running if your are stopped, just to make the air conditioned working? In Italy you risk a fine from 205 to 410 euro for this. I wonder also how truckers can sleep in summer or winter with temperature below zero without air or heating that goes only with engine running. Or simply can drive when your car was under the sun all day long with 50°C inside and the sterling wheel is burning. Imho, this law is stupid and completely useless....
My neighbour does that all the time... just now he spent 15 minutes accelerating his Peugeot 307 just to make the AC work... I hate him

Last edited by g.spinoza; June 25th, 2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Is there in any other country a law that forbids to leave the car with engine running if your are stopped, just to make the air conditioned working? In Italy you risk a fine from 205 to 410 euro for this. I wonder also how truckers can sleep in summer or winter with temperature below zero without air or heating that goes only with engine running. Or simply can drive when your car was under the sun all day long with 50°C inside and the sterling wheel is burning. Imho, this law is stupid and completely useless....
In Spain you only have to stop your engine if you're in a traffic jam inside a tunnel. Madrid city council proposed to forbid keeping the engine running on a parked vehicle, but I don't know if this is already in force.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Is there in any other country a law that forbids to leave the car with engine running if your are stopped, just to make the air conditioned working? In Italy you risk a fine from 205 to 410 euro for this. I wonder also how truckers can sleep in summer or winter with temperature below zero without air or heating that goes only with engine running. Or simply can drive when your car was under the sun all day long with 50°C inside and the sterling wheel is burning. Imho, this law is stupid and completely useless....
It's illegal in parts of the U.S., certainly New Jersey. (That sort of legislation tends to happen at the state level.) I think the rule only applies if you do it for more than five minutes.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #54
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Sometimes they advise not top off your tank or gas up in the afternoon in Houston if ozone levels are very high during inversion.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Is there in any other country a law that forbids to leave the car with engine running if your are stopped, just to make the air conditioned working? In Italy you risk a fine from 205 to 410 euro for this. I wonder also how truckers can sleep in summer or winter with temperature below zero without air or heating that goes only with engine running. Or simply can drive when your car was under the sun all day long with 50°C inside and the sterling wheel is burning. Imho, this law is stupid and completely useless....
Ehh.. I think quite many countries have such a law.

Idling is rather an ineffective way to make cool or warm air.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 01:54 AM   #56
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City of Genoa "standard" EUR 39,- parking fine from 2011



Infraction code "84" basically means no parking token (ticket from automaton) was found on display in the vehicle.
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Old June 26th, 2012, 03:28 PM   #57
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Did you pay it?
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Old June 26th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #58
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7.300 speeding fines in 8 days by 2 new radars on the SS35 Milano-Meda (near Paderno Dugnano towards Milano) and on the SS415 near Settimo Milanese. The SS35 in the section checked by the radar the speed limit is 80 Km/h, on a road classified as Strada Extraurbana Principale (so it should have speed limit of 110 km/h)
http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/...iali-37965024/
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Old June 26th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #59
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Did you pay it?
No(t yet); do I risk anything if travelling to Italy again?
Even if I had wanted to pay it, the "via breve" period was only 7 days and I could not have transferred the amount in this time - without access to the online transfer services of my bank account.

Is there a "registrant's liability" in Italy? That is, is the vehicle registrant liable for all infractions committed with the vehicle, so authorities only need the license plate?
Or do authorities have to identify the actual trespasser if the registrant claims not having committed the offense?
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Old June 26th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #60
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I would say you don't risk anything. They should do a research and being is just a fine for parking, nobody would do it. There are many swiss people (or italians with swiss plate) working in Milan that collected hundreds fine, especially for ZTL and driving in reserved lanes that never payed one. The italian fine database doesnt work so much good as the swiss one, concerning foreign plates. Even if there's a cooperation between two countries, never heard that a swiss got a fine at home from Italy. You must be caught for something bad and checked, to find out u didn't pay that fine. But this happens rarely
http://www.alvolante.it/news/multe_%...tera-527311044
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