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Old May 11th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #161
inno4321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humptydumpty7 View Post
Exactly, i'm also optimistic
Same situation with Hyundai GBC. Many years they were not allowed to build, now they got the permission with massive support from everyone, including the mayor.

Also Trimage is a nice example, where they build 2x200m towers next to han river, despite the "evil dictator mayor hating skyscrapers".

Good things can happen, just stay positive

PS: please don't use bad language if you don't like my comment

DEAR BRO
If you want to discuss something. You should express base on exact information.
That is best way for constructive discussion!
Trimage was APPROVED by former predecessor Seoul mayor Mr Oh Sa Hun. Not by your "evil dictator mayor". you check the fact

Also Hyundai tower originally guide line plan 50fl below by your now mayor.
But that project national one. but Skorea big 4 company no interesting about 50fl low/density project.
whichmean KEPCO must sold out land with big money and with that money they move to suburban. It is by national program called "지방균형발전"(promote suburban develop policy). So there is no choice if land not selling with proper price!
So your mayor end up withdraw exceptionally allow supertall demanded by money and national government not by his philosophy
that is why Hundaiy group pay world most expensive LAND MONEY $10 BILLIONS in there and $ 2 billions cash donation to seoul. money
Actually Mr jung moung gu who CEO of hyundai try to built 888m height land mark in there. now decreased to 553m. compromised!
I bet if not $10 billions cash they can't built even 553m height!

later I will show you that a short tower(around 40~49fl) master plan in 88olympic stadium between LWT555M and HYUNDAI 553M by seoul<==this one later discussion more detail.

aquaticko don;t know mayor's term and humptydumpty7 confused approved. I disappointed.
PLZ carefully study about seoul before fuss thanks
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Old May 11th, 2016, 03:47 PM   #162
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Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?
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Old May 11th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?

very creative instinct comment.
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Old May 11th, 2016, 04:03 PM   #164
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No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.
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Old May 11th, 2016, 04:22 PM   #165
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Former mayor finished design opera house project in nodul(in the middle of han river) with $40 million and prepare under construction.
but he resign before project U/C

copyright to http://cafe.naver.com/pajeori/1051

copyright to http://blog.naver.com/etocat/220128516656

But seoul mayor changed to new person then Now seoul mayor suddenly dismiss this project and to make "green plant" on there!
$ 40 millions seoulites tax money go to waste box when opera house design disappear!
According to the OECD report Seoul is one of lowest cultural seats per citizens though. even though accoding to survey over 70% seoulite(citizens) agreed the opera house project to built in Nodul island.
Opera house project disappear by Seoul mayor alone decision!
and to make "city farming" on there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.

I 1000% behind with you. your opinions very true in my city's phenomenon!
I really surprised that this kind of anti skyscraper/ anti develop tendency common in your country and my country. It really interesting comment for me.
I want to study with sociology about this opinions!!
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Old May 11th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.
They think something like:

Towers = skyscrapers = USA = capitalism
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Old May 11th, 2016, 07:01 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?
North Korea



Despite Sanctions and Isolation, Pyongyang Skyline Grows


Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321
If you want to discuss something.You should express base on exact information.
I don't want to discuss or convince, I just say my opinion: I am optimistic about this project, thats it
New elections will come, new mayor will come.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 07:03 PM   #168
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http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/new...=2016051097861
Above article is editorial article of HANKYOUNG(korea economy news paper) about seoul mayor's recent city plan.
HANKYOUNG paper is most prominent paper in korea journal like BLOOMBERG/FT.
So below translation is not my opinions but news paper's thinking.
Plz read below my translation(EXCUSE MY BAD ENLGISH)

Seoul show us Many differents ways but excellent(?) method How to slum and falling behind seoul city!

Recently '2025 seoul city master plan" was public open by park won sun seoul mayor.
The point is to restrict building's height 90m(20fl) below inner CBD area of seoul.
Furthermore Some developing area of CBD's developing zone dismiss by 2025 seoul city master plan. Which mean to preserved old concrete building by itself instead of to redeveloping,remodeling with huge size.
Seoul mayor insist that harmony between preserved and developing.

It seems make sense when first hearing. But second thought he(mayor) guided by fault idea that "to preserved is good thing but developing is bad things!"
I think he didn't understand the spirits of city's evolution whichmean city become more develop and integration as time passing by.
Seoul mayor's plan opposite with world mega city's trend that "to release restriction,regulation" inside city such like TOKYO did.

I'm not surprised cause I(writer journalist) have been saw many ridiculous "ANTI-CITY POLICY" by park won sun mayor who propaganda 마을공동체(promote village community movement)

Also it is so funny for me to restrict new building's height as 90m below due to harmony with lowest height mountain 낙산naksan mountain's height.
Is to built 20fl building is beautiful but to built 30fl building is ugly?
He totally misunderstand deep philosophy in developing. Ironically, to built 30fl or 40fl more height building more easily to preserved old architecture and made public space!
If seoul mayor don't want 20fl uniformity skyline then he must release restrict and allow more freedom to designers/architecture right now!

If seoul mayor's plan will not withdraw then seoul will be more more "falling behind and slum"
For example around 익선동iksundong·낙원동nakwondong, 인의동ineudong·효제동hyujaedong, 종로5가jongro5 avenue, 주교동joogyodong·오장동ohjangdong·충무로5가chungmuro 5 avenue, 동대문디자인플라자(DDP dongdaemun design plaza) will be slummy as same ugly building since japan regime! Think about these area remain with development thoughtless for the environment since japan regime.
With massive capital and huge size developing is more environment friendly as by architecture technology improved.

Seoul will be slowly recession and destroy by anti developing idea "Let's it be Dirty city itself"!

==========

Please don't confused above article's writer as me(inno4321) Above article's writer is not me but 정규재(mr chung kyou jae) who famous journalist in korea economy.
He thinking exactly same way what i thinking.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 10:16 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.
Because skyscrapers do take a lot of resources to build. It's a concentration of resources, which may or may not be efficient in one case or another, but socialism is opposed to the concentration of resources in just one place. Equitable distribution is the key. Socialist parties call themselves green for the same reason non-socialist parties do: it's trendy. Profit-hungry corporations do the same thing.

There's a reason a lot of countries have both socialist AND green parties. One doesn't necessarily mean the other, and arguments from either position can be made for the other. Socialism can argue for environmentalism, and environmentalism can argue for socialism. Conversely, socialism can argue against environmentalism--if what's environmentally-friendly doesn't work towards the equal distribution of resources. It's harder to imagine environmentalism arguing against socialism (pure profit is inherently inefficient), but all that's kind of beside the point.

Mayor Park is clearly misguided in not allowing towers >20 floors in one of the densest parts of one of the densest cities in the world, and considering land and home prices in Seoul, and the environmental destruction rampant in South Korea in building commieblock apartments all throughout the capital region, he's got it wrong on both socialist and environmentalist grounds.

Critical thinking seems to be in short supply on the peninsula, on all sides of the political spectrum, but then, it's not something they've ever really taught there.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:27 PM   #170
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Sorry, but I don't browse skyscrapercity to feel the bern.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by _Barca_ View Post
Sorry, but I don't browse skyscrapercity to feel the bern.
Way to make assumptions about someone and respond with an articulate, thoughtful post....
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #172
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http://www.fntimes.com/paper/view.aspx?num=153353

Again Seoul mayor made NEW height restriction in 32 New developing zone of Seoul!
According to the report seoul mayor approved new height restriction plan in all around seoul district at 6th city construction council.
This is another restriction beside a week ago's 2025 CBD Restriction plan!


I can't make a full index what seoul mayor ruin and dismiss seoul project! it is too many to make index
Probably He become seoul mayor for the purpose turn metropolitan to suburban! plan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
B.
enough we know you are socialist. that is why you continue support seoul mayor.
It is OK. That is your privilege. I respect! but this thread not for political discussion but about skyscraper and Anti developing phenomenon in seoul.
Don't you read above Mr Chung kyu Jae's editorial article?
That news paper clearly speaking about "Anti-city policy of seoul mayor" and critic that openly. Which mean ALL koreans know that "anti developing policy of seoul mayor! You should first critic "한국경제 Hankukyoungjae newspaper" rather than argue with other ssc members!

_Barca_ is right. I really admire his comment! Even I learn from him. we not talking about politic! We fight against "skyscraper hater! City hater" i.e Seoul mayor ruin seoul city! He is more vicious one than nkorea's fat boy concern skyscraper. Do you want we keep silence and just watching Ban skyscraper in seoul? Absolutely not
WE ARE SKYSCRAPER LOVER. though seoul failed but hopefully other city learn something from my city. I don;t want this kind of irrational anti developing phenomenon repeat in other cities! that is why I inform seoul mayor's vandalism in here.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:44 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Way to make assumptions about someone and respond with an articulate, thoughtful post....
Articulate thoughtful posts are also in short supply on the peninsula, don't you know?
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Old May 13th, 2016, 05:29 PM   #174
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Quote:
Inno

...that is why you continue to support mayor.
Quote:
aquaticko

Mayor Park is clearly misguided in not allowing towers >20 floors
Tell me, where did I say I support Mayor Park? I haven't been a real supporter of his for a very long time. And Inno, I'm really getting tired of talking about this. This is a political issue. Mayor is a democratically-elected, political office; to the extent that Mayor Park is solely responsible for these stupid policies, they are political. Stop with your nonsense.

Quote:
_Barca_

Articulate thoughtful posts are also in short supply on the peninsula, don't you know?
I'm still waiting to hear exactly what part of my original post you take issue with. You asked why socialists don't always support skyscrapers; I offered an explanation, and I still have no idea what you think of that explanation, other than an implicit disapproval.

Say something, or don't say something. Don't just say nothing.
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Old May 14th, 2016, 03:48 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post

http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/new...=2016051097861
Above article is editorial article of HANKYOUNG(korea economy news paper) about seoul mayor's recent city plan.
HANKYOUNG paper is most prominent paper in korea journal like BLOOMBERG/FT.
So below translation is not my opinions but news paper's thinking.
Plz read below my translation(EXCUSE MY BAD ENLGISH)

Seoul show us Many differents ways but excellent(?) method How to slum and falling behind seoul city!

Recently '2025 seoul city master plan" was public open by park won sun seoul mayor.
The point is to restrict building's height 90m(20fl) below inner CBD area of seoul.
Furthermore Some developing area of CBD's developing zone dismiss by 2025 seoul city master plan. Which mean to preserved old concrete building by itself instead of to redeveloping,remodeling with huge size.
Seoul mayor insist that harmony between preserved and developing.

It seems make sense when first hearing. But second thought he(mayor) guided by fault idea that "to preserved is good thing but developing is bad things!"
I think he didn't understand the spirits of city's evolution whichmean city become more develop and integration as time passing by.
Seoul mayor's plan opposite with world mega city's trend that "to release restriction,regulation" inside city such like TOKYO did.

I'm not surprised cause I(writer journalist) have been saw many ridiculous "ANTI-CITY POLICY" by park won sun mayor who propaganda 마을공동체(promote village community movement)

Also it is so funny for me to restrict new building's height as 90m below due to harmony with lowest height mountain 낙산naksan mountain's height.
Is to built 20fl building is beautiful but to built 30fl building is ugly?
He totally misunderstand deep philosophy in developing. Ironically, to built 30fl or 40fl more height building more easily to preserved old architecture and made public space!
If seoul mayor don't want 20fl uniformity skyline then he must release restrict and allow more freedom to designers/architecture right now!

If seoul mayor's plan will not withdraw then seoul will be more more "falling behind and slum"
For example around 익선동iksundong·낙원동nakwondong, 인의동ineudong·효제동hyujaedong, 종로5가jongro5 avenue, 주교동joogyodong·오장동ohjangdong·충무로5가chungmuro 5 avenue, 동대문디자인플라자(DDP dongdaemun design plaza) will be slummy as same ugly building since japan regime! Think about these area remain with development thoughtless for the environment since japan regime.
With massive capital and huge size developing is more environment friendly as by architecture technology improved.

Seoul will be slowly recession and destroy by anti developing idea "Let's it be Dirty city itself"!

==========

Please don't confused above article's writer as me(inno4321) Above article's writer is not me but 정규재(mr chung kyou jae) who famous journalist in korea economy.
He thinking exactly same way what i thinking.

It is ridiculous for me. aquaticko why you didn't reply above HANKUKKYOUNGJAE'S critic against SEOUL mayor's Anti developing Anti City Ban skyscraper policy?
Did you think that korea famous new paper talking about "politic"?
No they didn't! they talking about seoul city policy base on FACT.
seoul mayor is not Holy god. We must critic him when he ruin seoul city with rice field&BAN SKYSCRAPER!
You confused skorea with nkorea. I know you like him because you same stance with him about political idea. But that is not my business
We talking about city&skyscraper. You talking about politic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
S
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Old May 15th, 2016, 03:22 PM   #176
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He can specifically mention politics or not; it doesn't change the fact that urban development--including skyscrapers--are political. They are a product of a certain set of political beliefs, which lead to certain types of economic development, which leads to a specific type of urban development, i.e., skyscrapers.

If all you're really concerned about is Seoul developing further into a world-class city, then why don't you get upset at all the landowners who build shitty-looking commieblocks and give Seoul a terrible image? Why not hope for districts full of beautiful, 20-storey buildings built around pedestrian-friendly roads? Why not try to work with Mayor Park's stupid rules by at least setting a high bar for what can be developed? Why not hope for the use of innovative modern Korean architects to give Seoul a feeling like older European cities, with their distinctive architecture and close-knit urban fabrics, yet done in a uniquely Korean way?

I keep focusing on the political, Inno, not just because ultimately this is political, but because there are so many things more important than height to a city's urban development, and if the height restriction is all that you or mister "Korean economy expert" really care about, well, you need to get your priorities straight.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 02:21 PM   #177
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http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?sc...351433&sID=501

Today news report!
Lotte complex commercial project in sangamdong stalled due to Seoul mayor park won sun
And Lotte company prepare a file a sue against seoul.

-Lotte buying land about $200 millions 20,600㎡ from Seoul city.
-Seoul mayor selling that land as "COMMERCIAL ZONE"
-After selling land Seoul mayor Park won sun promote New policy which 경제민주화 "democracy of economy"
-And Seoul didn't approved for U/C and asking lotte negotiation with around vendors. So Seoul REJECT developing plan of LOTTE and didn't give "approved" so far!
-Lotte annouced project impossible
-According to the report this lotte project another "scapegoat of seoul mayor's policy"
Now mayor COMEDY ONGOING


Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
to give Seoul a feeling like older European cities.

Ban skyscraper, anti city, plant rice field in city is evil behavior against civilization.
"to give seoul a feeling like older European cities "? You kidding me? Why? WE DON'T NEED other continent's style. We have individual creative design i.e 한옥 Hanok more natural friendly design. why europe?
btw Again seoul mayor troll in SANGAM DMC commercial project. PLZ read above news article
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Old May 16th, 2016, 03:37 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post
...Ban skyscraper, anti city, plant rice field in city is evil behavior against civilization.
"to give seoul a feeling like older European cities "? You kidding me? Why? WE DON'T NEED other continent's style. We have individual creative design i.e 한옥 Hanok more natural friendly design. why europe?
btw Again seoul mayor troll in SANGAM DMC commercial project. PLZ read above news article
The point was, Inno, that European cities don't need to build skyscrapers to avoid "turning into slums" because a lot of them have large quantities of excellent-quality low-rise buildings, and that the special feel you get from them--and other densely-built, pedestrian-friendly cities--is not from the height of the buildings.

Especially because Seoul's population is basically stable, and Korea's economy isn't growing nearly as fast as it used to, you can easily make an argument that it does make sense for the city to start focusing on quality of buildings, not quantity, i.e., design and not height. Besides, there are tons of cities in China, for example, that are building very tall--much taller than Seoul--and yet no one knows about them because tall buildings really aren't that important, much though we here may like them.

This is my problem with your perspective on this issue, Inno. You seem only to care about height, and building skyscrapers. There are tons of buildings over 100m being built all around Seoul--the terrible-looking ones that kimahrikku1 keeps us updated about all the time. Bland concrete commieblock apartment buildings built by greedy landowners and speculators--these are allowed to be built all over the city, and they are inarguably the worst part of the city's landscape.

You don't update us about them because you know they're terrible, yet you pretend that there aren't any >100m buildings allowed to be built anywhere in the city, and that therefore not being able to build tall is the primary problem. It's not, and it hasn't been, and it won't be. The biggest problem is the attitude of residential developers in Seoul, who don't care about building miserable-looking, tower in the park-style buildings that destroy communities and ruin the appearance of the city.

I would love to see tons of hanok-style multistory developments all over the city, instead of these commieblocks, but new hanoks wouldn't probably be more than 5 stories, anyway, so your obsession with Mayor Park's idiotic anti-height regulations totally misses that point.

Basically, Inno, you are missing the point about improving Seoul.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post


http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?sc...351433&sID=501

Today news report!
Lotte complex commercial project in sangamdong stalled due to Seoul mayor park won sun
And Lotte company prepare a file a sue against seoul.

-Lotte buying land about $200 millions 20,600㎡ from Seoul city.
-Seoul mayor selling that land as "COMMERCIAL ZONE"
-After selling land Seoul mayor Park won sun promote New policy which 경제민주화 "democracy of economy"
-And Seoul didn't approved for U/C and asking lotte negotiation with around vendors. So Seoul REJECT developing plan of LOTTE and didn't give "approved" so far!
-Lotte annouced project impossible
-According to the report this lotte project another "scapegoat of seoul mayor's policy"
Now mayor COMEDY ONGOING




Ban skyscraper, anti city, plant rice field in city is evil behavior against civilization.
"to give seoul a feeling like older European cities "? You kidding me? Why? WE DON'T NEED other continent's style. We have individual creative design i.e 한옥 Hanok more natural friendly design. why europe?
btw Again seoul mayor troll in SANGAM DMC commercial project. PLZ read above news article

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
T

Finally I understand your western view point in my city. No thanks. Now Just take care your cities.
And I don't want to talk with you. Maybe you want this thread to "closed" by fulled political Off topic&troll. No I'll not mistake as you want or plan!
But I will continue update what seoul mayor's anti developing,anti skyscraper troll in seoul.
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"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

Last edited by inno4321; May 16th, 2016 at 04:41 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 04:51 PM   #180
kimahrikku1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
The point was, Inno, that European cities don't need to build skyscrapers to avoid "turning into slums" because a lot of them have large quantities of excellent-quality low-rise buildings, and that the special feel you get from them--and other densely-built, pedestrian-friendly cities--is not from the height of the buildings.

Especially because Seoul's population is basically stable, and Korea's economy isn't growing nearly as fast as it used to, you can easily make an argument that it does make sense for the city to start focusing on quality of buildings, not quantity, i.e., design and not height. Besides, there are tons of cities in China, for example, that are building very tall--much taller than Seoul--and yet no one knows about them because tall buildings really aren't that important, much though we here may like them.

This is my problem with your perspective on this issue, Inno. You seem only to care about height, and building skyscrapers. There are tons of buildings over 100m being built all around Seoul--the terrible-looking ones that kimahrikku1 keeps us updated about all the time. Bland concrete commieblock apartment buildings built by greedy landowners and speculators--these are allowed to be built all over the city, and they are inarguably the worst part of the city's landscape.

You don't update us about them because you know they're terrible, yet you pretend that there aren't any >100m buildings allowed to be built anywhere in the city, and that therefore not being able to build tall is the primary problem. It's not, and it hasn't been, and it won't be. The biggest problem is the attitude of residential developers in Seoul, who don't care about building miserable-looking, tower in the park-style buildings that destroy communities and ruin the appearance of the city.

I would love to see tons of hanok-style multistory developments all over the city, instead of these commieblocks, but new hanoks wouldn't probably be more than 5 stories, anyway, so your obsession with Mayor Park's idiotic anti-height regulations totally misses that point.

Basically, Inno, you are missing the point about improving Seoul.
Not sure if that was a shout out or an attempt to criticize my work hahaha.

Jokes aside, I agree. Korea does ave a huge need to revamp many of its older buildings look like shit. But, Korea doesn't really have to increase the number of households by square area, because the population isn't increasing much. The math is fairly simple, such a situation calls for many projects, but doesn't require them to be tall. Of course, I'm all for all buildings, otherwise I wouldn't have subscribed to about 380 threads about Korean projects on this site (and created said threads for many of the lousiest projects). I'm all for free market, I'm pro-business, and I'm ready to bet Aquaticko is too. But high=capitalism / low=communism is pure ridicule. The soviets were much more obsessed with raw numbers, and they were the ones building tall buildings until the 1960s until they run out of money. Most of Eastern Europe's tallest buildings are still government complexes or universities built by the USSR. And the term "commieblock", well, comes from the shitty mid-rises the soviets built while in the US, comfortable 2-floor residential housing suburbs were built.

There's something a bit ironic. You criticize the mayor's decision to limit the Jongro height to 90m, but most of the projects you upload or talk about are the smaller projects that will have lasting cultural impact. Examples of the threads you've created: Gyeungui Line Forest Trail, Nara Kium Tower, Magok Botanic Park, National Park Service Park, Hannam-dong Foreigners' residences, DangIn Lee Power Station park transformation, Yeongdongdaero transportation complex, K-Experience, Garak Market remodeling...
These are all very interesting projects, that will impact the lives of citizens and tourists alike, but they are all fairly small and all of them definitely low in height.

In the meantime, there are many residential projects near the CBD area (Jongro-gu, Jung-gu) for which you haven't created a thread and that you didn't even mentioned, while most of these projects are way taller than the projects for which you created a thread. A few examples : Ahyeon I-Park, Seoul Station Central Xi, Seoul Station Halla Vivaldi Central, e-Convenient World Sinchon, the very massive Centlas multi-developer project just east of DDP, Deoksugung Lotte Castle, Gyeonghuigung Xi...

So, for someone supposedly so hell-bent on height, you disregard, like most people, the taller buildings.

Anyway, you remind me of the guy who plays SimCity, spends a bunch of money building the expensive landmarks while the population hasn't gone past 500 people yet, gets angry because he is bleeding cash, then throws a tantrum and unleashes a Meteor Strike Disaster to destroy his own city...
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