When will Tampa get it's next 400+ footer?

[Cloud7]

"The Venu' looked promising.
Personally I'm glad the Trump Tower was never built, the design was not very good IMO. (Will it ever get built BTW?) Most of the skyscrapers in DT Tampa have that sleek glassy look and I think they are better off keeping it that way.

Will we see ANYTHING by say... 2015...2020?

[Jasonhouse]

Not by 2015. Not over 400ft anyways,

[John F]

I have doubts. usually you hear about 20% of the office space downtown is open (give or take a few percentage points) at any given time... That kills the need for major new space. Then there's the competing West Shore business district which is a popular location. There is also the habit of local companies wanting their own, private buildings with sprawling campuses out in the suburbs.

And that's commercial... The two projects you cited were residential. And the residential market is... Well, it's odd. Residential real estate is in the gutter through most of the US, but there is a trend of residents moving into cities instead of suburbs. Tampa has already seen grand increases in residents downtown due to the residential building boom of the 00's... But some were set to fail from the beginning because developers were expecting the real estate bubble to last and everyone wealthy snatch up their prime-location condos.

A 400 foot tower downtown? I don't expect it. A lot of things would have to change in short time.

[Del Mayberry]

You hear stories of companies that go DT but they only need a few floors. It would take a major company that originates here or one that relocates here that needs half a million square feet and wants to have most of it's departments all in one tower. I think those days are over so it would be a miracle to get a new one that big. We will probably get a new hotel but nowhere near 400ft. Condos? No idea.

[John F]

I don't necessarily think "those days are over" as-so-much Tampa - and larger Tampa Bay - is not renown for embracing stuff like that in city centers but, instead, sprawling campuses.

Look at Raymond James. Look at Nielsen Media Research. Look at Baycare and HSN: Huge local employers who have sprawling campuses in suburban locations (Baycare is building a new building in Clearwater, between US 19 and McMullen Booth). They don't think of location and presence as-so-much something of their own. Nothing distinctive - just funcitonal.

Maybe you're right? A company wanting to imprss the public with their own identifiable location in a high profile area with a distinct building... But, I think that's just TB -- we invite sprawl and parking lots before we invite vertical corporate edifices.

[TampaMike]

You're going to need a huge corporate HQ to have any significant tall proposal in Downtown. Something Tampa doesn't have.

[Jasonhouse]

Especially with the city eager to give approval to literally any structure proposed downtown. After CAMLS, the PA garage, a used car lot and the Related apts all sailed through rezoning while the city's leadership high fived themselves, it's clear that anything goes, all future consequences be damned.

I'm still shocked that the old TTT site wasn't approved to be converted into a surface lot. The new landowner must have forgotten to pay his dues... oops, I mean make a ''campaign contribution''.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Especially with the city eager to give approval to literally any structure proposed downtown. After CAMLS, the PA garage, a used car lot and the Related apts all sailed through rezoning while the city's leadership high fived themselves, it's clear that anything goes, all future consequences be damned.

I'm still shocked that the old TTT site wasn't approved to be converted into a surface lot. The new landowner must have forgotten to pay his dues... oops, I mean make a ''campaign contribution''.

You're shocked about TTT? The you clearly don't pay attention. A) I told you it wasn't going to go anywhere -- so did Mike and a half a dozen other people B) If you know as much about Tampa as you do, then you would have known that. C) Instead of assuming the politicians are stupid for the reason you think -- try finding out why they actually make stupid decisions.

CAMLS and PA Garage were years ago. Only one -- yes, one -- of the people on the city council were voting then + a different mayor.

Related was the first building asking for a permit in 3 years that wasn't a parking lot. Sadly in this economy -- no way they are going to win that fight. Just like it'll be hard to make the fight political if there are things wrong with vinik's plans --- that will have to be waged in the press.

[Jasonhouse]

That TTT bit was sarcasm.

[smiley]

CAMLS and PA Garage were years ago. Only one -- yes, one -- of the people on the city council were voting then + a different mayor.

Mayor was around for a lot of really bad decisions. Maybe he learned or maybe he didn't. And at least Mulhern and Miranda . . .

I know you are a political consultant for democrats - which means your business in Tampa is with the city govt or its progeny, but you need to relax

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by smiley

Mayor was around for a lot of really bad decisions. Maybe he learned or maybe he didn't. And at least Mulhern and Miranda . . .

I know you are a political consultant for democrats - which means your business in Tampa is with the city govt or its progeny, but you need to relax

Nope. Do no work for people in Tampa and never have. Democrats don't have the stuff together in the bay area. I am sorry if I take out my frustration on the "Tampa sucks and always will" crowd on here. It's an annoying and typical attitude from people who should know better.

I agree -- the jury is out on whether he's learned or if the majority of council know better. But if they feel like the people who want better are always their enemy and the people who don't are always their friend. They are only hearing one side of the argument. That is when stuff does actually break down.

But this i know -- if 400ft+ tower comes up for approval -- it'll get approved this day and age. But i'll relax if people stop being card carrying members of the Tampa sucks and always will crowd. If people want to say that I will argue different. If people say Tampa sucks and can get better, or it kinds sucks or whatever, fine. But I have lived a lot of places and there is a lot to like about this city.

[smiley]

Tampa sucks and can get better

This has always been my position, but to get better it needs a lot of change - especially in the political class. And if you ask the poltical class, you will find many of them are in the Tampa cannot get better group - they are always telling you why it cannot be done, even if everyone else does it.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

You're going to need a huge corporate HQ to have any significant tall proposal in Downtown. Something Tampa doesn't have.

John pretty much nailed it. DT will not get another 400 ft office tower because of Westshore and suburban office complexes with huge parking lots. RJ is a good example. When they needed more office space, they just added on "attached" another mid-rise. If another 400+ tower of any kind is proposed there is also a couple other things to consider. The FAA may not want 400 feet unless it's on a specific block, which is kind of ridiculous when we already have buildings over 500. Plus you may have some council members that have a problem with height. That's happened before.

[TampaMike]

A multi-use could also do it. Imagine if instead of the Southgate project being 2 towers, it was offices on the first half and the hotel on the second half of one tower. Include having retail and the parking taking up Floor 1 to Floor 7 and you definitely would have a 400+ ft tower for Tampa.

Just imagine if the CAMLS project and Southgate was just one large tower.

[Cloud7]

Perhaps you guys can explain something to me...
Why is it that whenever a decent project gets proposed in Tampa it gets shot down almost instantly, as where in Miami nobody cares?
For a metro area as populated as Tampa you would think the skyline would be at least 1/2 or 2/3rds the size of the Miami skyline by now. I realize though that the Tampa area is more sprawled/spread out ect..

Will Tampa ever see a decent construction boom downtown anytime in the not too far future? What would it take to cause it?

[koopalicious]

Because many of the people that have power and influence (and buy condos) in Miami do not actually live in Miami. And the people that do live in the city, judging by the condition of it, are not the vanguard of urbanism and aesthetics.

That said, we should not be worried about the size of our skyline or the height of our towers. We should be concerned with creating a good urban environment. I want people to enjoy walking, eating, sleeping, and working in our downtown - not taking photos of it from afar.

[Del Mayberry]

Miami is a more popular city (globally) & it has a better waterfront than Tampa. The demand for high rise living there is way beyond Tampa's. Plus Miami and the whole S. FL coast gets a lot of the wealthy people from the NE that move there or just have a condo for the winter. People in Tampa/St. Pete can't think outside of the suburban box. Too many people here with kids that have to be in the burbs with a typical home with garage and yard. A lot of people on here are are so gung ho about high rises to be built in Tampa but they would never live in one.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Not for a LONG LONG time.

[Cloud7]

Originally Posted by koopalicious

Because many of the people that have power and influence (and buy condos) in Miami do not actually live in Miami. And the people that do live in the city, judging by the condition of it, are not the vanguard of urbanism and aesthetics.

That said, we should not be worried about the size of our skyline or the height of our towers. We should be concerned with creating a good urban environment. I want people to enjoy walking, eating, sleeping, and working in our downtown - not taking photos of it from afar.

I agree to an extent. I would much rather see ten 100ft buildings than one 1000ft building. A skyline means nothing unless you have actually activity in the streets.
However, this does not mean I would be against Tampa having a supertall.
...Hey, I like skylines...can you blame me?

[smiley]

Miami is a more popular city (globally) & it has a better waterfront than Tampa. The demand for high rise living there is way beyond Tampa's. Plus Miami and the whole S. FL coast gets a lot of the wealthy people from the NE that move there or just have a condo for the winter. People in Tampa/St. Pete can't think outside of the suburban box. Too many people here with kids that have to be in the burbs with a typical home with garage and yard. A lot of people on here are are so gung ho about high rises to be built in Tampa but they would never live in one.

Tampa has made a conscious decision to stagnate development of Bayshore - Miami made the opposite decision in the Brickell area. Tampa had/has a chance to develop that area better.