When will Tampa get it's next 400+ footer?

[Cloud7]

Originally Posted by smiley

Tampa has made a conscious decision to stagnate development of Bayshore - Miami made the opposite decision in the Brickell area. Tampa had/has a chance to develop that area better.

I agree. Bayshore boulevard is such a beautiful setting. It would be great if the people living there would allow it to have some culture.

Why do they always cancel the hi-rise proposals along bayshore? Does it block their view or something?

[smiley]

And just to be clear, Miami has made a number of decisions over the years that made it an international city and Tampa has made decisions that didn't. This is over about a century. I don't think Bayshore would be (or should be) Brickell, but the whole area could have been developed completely differently, but for the conscious decisions of the city and the south Tampa powers

[TampaMike]

Hi-rise proposals always get criticism from some part of Bayshore about the height. Most complain about the shade, others say that they won't be able to grow a small garden. Tampa really needs to set out a vision and plan for all of Tampa, AND STICK TO IT!!!! Because once you start giving a "Let you pass with this one" pass to one developer, then all will want that pass. Decide what is best for the future of Bayshore and not just it's current residents. Sooner than later, they'll be gone and a new tenant will be looked for. And someone will come along and like that the house is shaded almost day long. People have different likes than others.

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by smiley

you will find many of them are in the Tampa cannot get better group - they are always telling you why it cannot be done, even if everyone else does it.

Bingo.

[kmthurman]

Totally agree the leadership loves to parrot that line -- because it's the chamber's favorite excuse for their failures. But I have noticed more people aren't talking that way anymore (and yes I have paid attention to it for a long time and know the history well). Just look at Sharpe, Suarez, Buckhorn, Lapano, Kelly Miller are just some examples and you find that people like Murman and others are willing to follow that.

Yeah they may be ten years behind, but we have more people who aren't in that camp in leadership than ever before. But it's not Norman, Storms, Greco.

And on topic: while I don't expect any 400ft+ buildings in the area -- I do expect we'll see a couple of 250ft+ buildings in the next couple years. The pent up demand for rental in downtown is going to bring in a couple developers and get a couple existing one to move on projects.

Mercury has sold nearly 100 united in 6 months at Grand Central for example to Martin might come soon (They are saying Publix would prefer to move into that building to people). The city is getting aggressive about courting new people as well.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

Hi-rise proposals always get criticism from some part of Bayshore about the height. Most complain about the shade, others say that they won't be able to grow a small garden. Tampa really needs to set out a vision and plan for all of Tampa, AND STICK TO IT!!!! Because once you start giving a "Let you pass with this one" pass to one developer, then all will want that pass. Decide what is best for the future of Bayshore and not just it's current residents. Sooner than later, they'll be gone and a new tenant will be looked for. And someone will come along and like that the house is shaded almost day long. People have different likes than others.

This needs to happen -- it is the big question. Will city council get a backbone? Will staff change their expectation? Will the other local leaders join in?

Only way that is all yes is if public pressure is applied. Period. They will listen to organized citizens. More scared of them then campaign donors.

[miketpa]

One of the biggest problems that still exist with Tampa (see Ray's stadium discussion) is the two city syndrome. St Pete and Tampa, and Hills/Pin counties, always seem to be competing with each other, and the entire Bay Area suffers as a result. Even Orlando is kicking our butt in economic development at this point because one city center creates a much more unified vision and cooperation for the entire metro area.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by miketpa

One of the biggest problems that still exist with Tampa (see Ray's stadium discussion) is the two city syndrome. St Pete and Tampa, and Hills/Pin counties, always seem to be competing with each other, and the entire Bay Area suffers as a result. Even Orlando is kicking our butt in economic development at this point because one city center creates a much more unified vision and cooperation for the entire metro area.

Don't really think it's the residents of Pinellas vs. the residents of Tampa/Hillsborough. It has been the biassed Times stirring the shit. They were praying that Trump Tower would fail.

[John F]

The Hatsfield / McCoys syndrome of Tampa/St. Pete has been around for a VERY long time, and the baseball thing is part of it (Tampa/St. Pete were at war over MLB bids 20+ years ago). The Times does have an agenda in it's narratives in who it quotes, how it presents a quote and what conclusions get told to the public. They're also the only major newspaper in the area with the Tampa Tribune basically contracting in on itself over the past 15 years.

The Times is supposed to be in favor of regionalism (sus their name change), and they've done nothing but promote rail initiatives nad mass transit alternatives when they come up for discussion... But they promote the hatsfield/mccoys thing by presenting the infighting as a serious position in discussing something political int eh region. They present insecurity of the region as vital to a story/issue (see the RNC and the after-convention stories about how the area did in the eyes of the convention goers).

[miketpa]

Beleive me, the Tampa vs St Pete thing is definitely not the only thing holding back Tampa from having a better skyline, it's one of many, many problems. The small town, NIMBY mentality of a lot of Tampa residents isn't helping.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by kmthurman

This needs to happen -- it is the big question. Will city council get a backbone? Will staff change their expectation? Will the other local leaders join in?

Only way that is all yes is if public pressure is applied. Period. They will listen to organized citizens. More scared of them then campaign donors.

South Tampa is NIMBY central and the city council will listen to no one else - city elections are all about south tampa. Dream on about Bayshore. Downtown is the only location and that will take a lot of time. The next 400' will be a condo/apartment/hotel - not an office building.

Frankly, I dont care about 400+, I care about proper development. Then it will take care of itself.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by smiley

And just to be clear, Miami has made a number of decisions over the years that made it an international city and Tampa has made decisions that didn't. This is over about a century. I don't think Bayshore would be (or should be) Brickell, but the whole area could have been developed completely differently, but for the conscious decisions of the city and the south Tampa powers

One thing Miami did was approve a lot of high-rise projects before they went to construction and topped out, so by the time these projects made it to construction, the NIMBY'S had nothing say in the matter.

I wish Miami Beach had done the same thing in the 90s. When the Blue and Green Diamonds topped out at 559 feet, there was such a public outcry that nothing else got approved that was over 500 feet tall, but if all of Miami Beach's very tall projects had gotten approved, Miami probably wouldn't have the skyline it has today and Miami Beach would probably have looked like Australia's Gold Coast.

Sunny Isles Beach got smart and didn't let the public in on what they were doing until a whole slew of projects got approved before the public could protest. As a result, Sunny Isles Beach probably has the second largest skyline in Florida after Miami, and both skylines are still growing. People don't seem to understand that high-rises generate a lot of revenue for a city.

[Del Mayberry]

Thanks Quantumx. That's why Miami is a city and Tampa is a town.

[rmaddrey]

Not quite, Tampa is certainly not a town and Miami has it's own wide array of problems affecting livability and culture degradation. Both are cities, just vastly different sorts of cities. We've both been screwed by the corrupt inadequacy of our elected gov officials.

Originally Posted by Del Mayberry

Thanks Quantumx. That's why Miami is a city and Tampa is a town.

[rmaddrey]

In terms of a 400-footer, I agree that it's going to be residential. The continued development and construction of Westshore nearly assures that for the next 5-10 years, I would guess. People often overlook Westshore as one of the greatest hinderances to the development of down town. I know the hope is that one day the two areas will grow together along the I-275 corridor but that's many decades away if then. The volume of commercial square-footage available in Westshore is mind boggling.

The solution seems clear to me, get GLR up and running between TIA-Westshore-Downtown, supplemented by trolley routes connecting the Heights, Hydepark, Ybor, etc... Make it feasible to work in Westshore and live downtown and you will grow some monsters downtown, first in residential and then later in new commercial towers.

[TPAMAN]

Originally Posted by rmaddrey

In terms of a 400-footer, I agree that it's going to be residential. The continued development and construction of Westshore nearly assures that for the next 5-10 years, I would guess. People often overlook Westshore as one of the greatest hinderances to the development of down town. I know the hope is that one day the two areas will grow together along the I-275 corridor but that's many decades away if then. The volume of commercial square-footage available in Westshore is mind boggling.

The solution seems clear to me, get GLR up and running between TIA-Westshore-Downtown, supplemented by trolley routes connecting the Heights, Hydepark, Ybor, etc... Make it feasible to work in Westshore and live downtown and you will grow some monsters downtown, first in residential and then later in new commercial towers.

I believe they should redesign Venu into a hotel instead. This would help it move to construction quicker as the property would be in a perfect area on the riverwalk and would add some regular tourist traffic which in turn would help the nearby museums and possible restaurants coming to the riverwalk.

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by rmaddrey

Not quite, Tampa is certainly not a town and Miami has it's own wide array of problems affecting livability and culture degradation. Both are cities, just vastly different sorts of cities. We've both been screwed by the corrupt inadequacy of our elected gov officials.

I was just disappointed that Tampa didn't get at least 10 high-rise condo's in DT to offset that same old 90's view of office towers that still dominate the skyline. But it isn't just politics, it's lack of desire too.

[Jasonhouse]

^The city approved them, but the DT market basically wasn't considered attractive enough to actually build them. Complete the riverwalk, fix the streetcar so it is a proper one, and get DT a grocery store, and DT the residential market will probably hit the critical mass it didn't quite achieve during the past growth cycle.

[rmaddrey]

That is exactly it Jason. The old Woolworth's is practically begging to be developed into a grocery store, I can easily imagine a Publix concept in there that worked more like an Aldi in terms of size and operations. Put a Publix in there with a small deli, meat market etc... and you would instantly make living downtown much more enjoyable. I would also go so far as to think a department store anchor like Target could go a long way, offering both retail and grocery. Then as you mentioned, close the Trolley's loop and make that network flow all the better for interconnecting the 3 downtown neighborhoods. Give it that, and DT has a real edge on Westshore, connect DT to Westshore and the airport and you've hit pay dirt.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by rmaddrey

Not quite, Tampa is certainly not a town and Miami has it's own wide array of problems affecting livability and culture degradation. Both are cities, just vastly different sorts of cities. We've both been screwed by the corrupt inadequacy of our elected gov officials.

Yup, there's no denying it. Much of what Miami is today is because of one mayor with foresight - Manny Diaz.