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Old May 2nd, 2013, 08:43 PM   #41
Momo1435
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The fun thing about it that you can bend this fight in two ways.


Biggest European Airports in passenger numbers:

#1 London Heathrow
#2 Paris CDG

Biggest European Airports in aircraft movements:

#1 Paris CDG
#3 London Heathrow


~~

Biggest airline groups in Europe:

#2 AF/KLM
#5 IAG

Cumulative size of airlines per country:

UK > France


And so on....
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 10:08 PM   #42
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Yeah, but in the future Paris will be ahead of London in terms of passengers too, because there is more capacity at CDG than at Heathrow.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 10:37 PM   #43
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[QUOTE=Momo1435;102876117]The fun thing about it that you can bend this fight in two ways.


Biggest European Airports in passenger numbers:

#1 London Heathrow
#2 Paris CDG

Biggest European Airports in aircraft movements:

#1 Paris CDG
#3 London Heathrow


London has bigger planes with more capcity. Paris-CDG has more runway space and smaller planes.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 11:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Yeah, but in the future Paris will be ahead of London in terms of passengers too, because there is more capacity at CDG than at Heathrow.
Well, if you don't count Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, Southend and City, or even a future new airport in the Thames estuary maybe, but...

Currently the combined London airports see 45% more passengers then the combined Paris airports, in actual numbers that's a difference 40 million passengers. London is actually the #1 city on the list of the world's busiest city airport system. As the #5 on the same list Paris is still one of the biggest air travel markets in the world, but it's simply not as big as London.

The big difference in size might be for a good part explained by the large share of LCCs in London, EasyJet and Ryanair have there main bases in London. So that put London and Paris closer together when it comes to intercontinental travel, but with the difference of 40 million passengers I have no doubt that London still wins if you see it as a competition as you clearly do.

I don't really care, as long as my local airport Schiphol offers good connections to Tokyo either directly or with a connecting flight I'm perfectly happy.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 05:41 AM   #45
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We need to be a bit more careful with the number crunching. After all, we're talking about Europe to non-Europe flights.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 02:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
We need to be a bit more careful with the number crunching. After all, we're talking about Europe to non-Europe flights.
What do you mean?
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 04:17 PM   #47
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The London-Dubai route should jump up at least another 250,000 with the addition of Qantas's Falcon route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
The EU's statistics agency has published fascinating detailed statistics about passager traffic between each European airport and all its counterparts in the world. The last fully available figures are from 2010.

I've compiled the busiest air routes between European cities and cities outside of Europe based on passenger traffic in 2010. Europe in this definition excludes Russia and Turkey, so Russian and Turkish cities appear as cities outside of Europe. I've also grouped all the airports of a given metropolitan area together, to better reflect the actual intensity of traffic between cities.

NOTE THAT there are no direct flights between Europe and Oceania. Therefore, passengers between London and Australia/New Zealand appear in the London-Dubai, London-Hong Kong, and London-Singapore air routes. Passengers between Paris and New Caledonia/French Polynesia appear in the Paris-Tokyo and Paris-Los Angeles air routes.

I tried to add up all the airports properly, but if you think I forgot something, please let me know.

Enjoy!

Busiest air routes between Europe and outside Europe in 2010 (passenger traffic):
1- London-New York: 3,643,080 passengers
2- London-Dubai: 2,604,284
3- London-Hong Kong: 1,801,520

4- Paris-New York: 1,635,157
5- London-Singapore: 1,507,032
6- London-Los Angeles: 1,419,144

7- Paris-Montréal: 1,242,821
8- Frankfurt-New York: 1,235,660
9- London-Toronto: 1,223,711
10- Paris-Casablanca: 1,148,034
11- London-Chicago: 1,138,579
12- Paris - Pointe-à-Pitre: 1,098,322
13- Düsseldorf/Cologne-Antalya: 1,072,463
14- London-Washington: 1,017,830
15- Paris-Tunis: 999,046
16- London-Bangkok: 991,862
17- London-Delhi: 979,146

18- Paris - Fort-de-France: 976,978
19- London-Mumbai: 958,103
20- Paris-Algiers: 954,334
21- London-Istanbul: 936,266
22- Frankfurt-Chicago: 888,936
23- Düsseldorf/Cologne-Istanbul: 887,986

24- Paris-St Denis (Réunion): 887,251
25- London-Johannesburg: 886,148
26- London-Boston: 866,414
27- London-San Francisco: 860,617

28- Madrid-Buenos Aires: 857,851
29- Rome-New York: 851,527
30- Paris-Tokyo: 849,055
31- Madrid-New York: 848,538
32- Frankfurt-Singapore: 846,632
33- Frankfurt-Istanbul: 842,809

34- London-Miami: 821,983
35- Amsterdam-New York: 812,399
36- London-Orlando: 792,418
37- Paris-Marrakech: 772,409
38- Paris-Istanbul: 767,802

39- London-Tel Aviv: 730,168
40- Paris-Tel Aviv: 724,104
41- Paris-Dubai: 716,892
42- Amsterdam-Istanbul: 703,112
43- London-Tokyo: 682,830
44- Frankfurt-Dubai: 679,173
45- Frankfurt-Washington: 676,592

46- London-Moscow: 671,258
47- Frankfurt-Bangkok: 670,423
48- Dublin-New York: 654,519
49- Munich-Istanbul: 643,403
50- Paris-Moscow: 642,729

I'll add the 10 busiest air routes for each region of the world later.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 07:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
What do you mean?
Was referring to Luton, Stansted, and City figures. The number of non-Europe destinations amongst these 3 airports is miniscule, so it would not be fair to compare the aggregate total of all passenger use and add it up amongst the airports. The right and relevant data subset ought to be used.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #49
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After seeing the conflict here, I have decided to show which regions are served mainly by which airport.

Note - Turkey is included with the Middle East and Australasia & Oceania are flights with stopovers.

Paris - CDG / London - LHR

Europe (Other) - 198 / Europe (Other) - 94
Former USSR - 12 / Former USSR - 10
North America - 48 / North America - 60
Latin America - 19 / Latin America - 9
Caribbean - 16 / Caribbean - 3
North Africa - 48 / North Africa - 12
Middle East - 35 / Middle East - 28
Sub-Saharan Africa - 28 / Sub-Saharan Africa- 19
Indian Subcontinent - 9 / Indian Subcontinent - 17
Southeastern & Eastern Asia- 31 / S & E Asia - 26
Australasia & Oceania - 2 / Australasia & Oceania - 5

All the statistics are from the destinations each Airline at the airports serve.
P.S. There could be only one destination but a number of airlines serving it (i.e. Papeete).
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Last edited by Kolony; May 5th, 2013 at 03:55 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 01:57 AM   #50
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There are more than 2 destinations in Oceania that are served from Paris CDG.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 02:24 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolony View Post
After seeing the conflict here, I have decided to show which regions are served mainly by which airport.

Note - Turkey is included with the Middle East and Australasia & Oceania are flights with stopovers.

Paris - CDG / London - LHR

Europe (Other) - 198 / Europe (Other) - 94
Former USSR - 12 / Former USSR - 10
North America - 48 / North America - 60
Latin America - 19 / Latin America - 9
Caribbean - 16 / Caribbean - 3
North Africa - 48 / North Africa - 12
Middle East - 35 / Middle East - 28
Sub-Saharan Africa - 28 / Sub-Saharan Africa- 19
Indian Subcontinent - 9 / Indian Subcontinent - 17
Southeastern & Eastern Asia- 31 / S & E Asia - 26
Australasia & Oceania - 2 / Australasia & Oceania - 5

All the statistics are from the destinations each Airline at the airports serve.
For some of those regions, other London airports serve more destinations than Heathrow.

For example, London Gatwick Airport serves more destinations in the Caribbean than London Heathrow Airport.

The lesser airports shouldn't be forgotten, especially in the case of London where the lesser airports constitute near half of London's total passenger numbers. My last 3 flights outside Europe have coincidentally all been from Gatwick (the last one being to Charlotte, USA).
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Old May 5th, 2013, 02:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
There are more than 2 destinations in Oceania that are served from Paris CDG.
First time contributing here, and I've looked at your claim. It looks like there is only one destination left operating between Paris/CDG and Oceania. It is operated by two carriers, Air France and Air Tahiti Nui, and the routing is Paris CDG—Los Angeles—Papeete. Before, though, Air Austral operated a long, multi-leg service from Paris/CDG, which not only served Saint-Denis in the Reunion, but also Sydney and Noumea in New Caledonia, but that flight has been axed. However, there is serious competition with the Middle Eastern airline market between Paris and Oceania, especially Australia, that it looks like all journeys require a stop or two somewhere to Down Under.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:54 AM   #53
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@Brisavoine Noumea and Sydney are no longer accessible from CDG on an scheduled basis (You would be required to switch planes to do so).

@SE9 I right now have only done the two biggest ones.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:59 AM   #54
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P.S. 2010 was long ago. This information should be updated to a more modern list (i.e. 2012).
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:06 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
First time contributing here, and I've looked at your claim. It looks like there is only one destination left operating between Paris/CDG and Oceania. It is operated by two carriers, Air France and Air Tahiti Nui, and the routing is Paris CDG—Los Angeles—Papeete.
So my friend who returns every year to his native New Caledonia by flying from Paris to Nouméa on Air France/Aircalin must be flying a ghost flight.

Seriously, if you post such research, at least try to do the research correctly. There are no direct flights from Europe to Oceania. All flights require a stopover somewhere. If you include the destinations which require one stopover, then I don't know how many Oceanian destinations are served from London Heathrow, but there are certainly more than 2 served from Paris CDG.

There is of course Papeete and Nouméa, which are both served from Paris with one stopover each, but I'm quite sure you can also reach Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland, and Honolulu from Paris with just one stopover.

FYI, flights from Paris to Nouméa make a stopover in either Tokyo Narita or Osaka Kansai Airport, and they take 23 hours and 30 minutes to reach Nouméa La Tontouta Airport from Paris CDG. You can even buy the ticket on the AF website, so just check it.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:06 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arran21 View Post
No, no and no, is lying a mental illness of yours, Hong Kong IS NOT used as a stop over to Australia, do you understand, or shall I draw you a picture, people going from Britain to Australia go via Singapore, not Hong Kong, I repeat, as you ate obviously not very intelligent, Hong Kong is not used as a stop over to Australia or new Zealand, Singapore is. People traveling from London to Hong Kong are going to stay in Hong Kong, do you understand now, gong Kong is China, so mote brits go to chins than French, now what will you say, I have the airline routes infringe of me, and Hong Kong IS NOT used as a stop over to Australia, singapore is, so that false map you made to try and make France look more important, was just another of your pathetic lies resulting from your massive inferiority complex about Britain, you can't hard Britain just because they are more powerfull and important, get over it and grue up, everyone is sick of your nationalistic nonsense, except ky, your just mediocre, so leave it at that and stop trying to ruin every thread with your constant trolling, or I will report you
HK is the main stop over for people flying Virgin on the 'Roo Route...
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:20 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
So my friend who returns every year to his native New Caledonia by flying from Paris to Nouméa on Air France/Aircalin must be flying a ghost flight.

Seriously, if you post such research, at least try to do the research correctly. There are no direct flights from Europe to Oceania. All flights require a stopover somewhere. If you include the destinations which require one stopover, then I don't know how many Oceanian destinations are served from London Heathrow, but there are certainly more than 2 served from Paris CDG.

There is of course Papeete and Nouméa, which are both served from Paris with one stopover each, but I'm quite sure you can also reach Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland, and Honolulu from Paris with just one stopover.

FYI, flights from Paris to Nouméa make a stopover in either Tokyo Narita or Osaka Kansai Airport, and they take 23 hours and 30 minutes to reach Nouméa La Tontouta Airport from Paris CDG. You can even buy the ticket on the AF website, so just check it.
Sure, that works. However, that'd mean you'll need to swap airlines and aircraft at either NRT or KIX to get to Noumea. Unless you tell me AirCalin codeshares with Air France, I still say that there is only one direct flight (as opposed to nonstop, which is a different story) serving between CDG and Oceania at the moment. And by the way, AirCalin operates A330s between New Caledonia and Japan, while AF operates either a B772, B77W, or A380 to Japan from Paris.

However, it's true that one needs to layover somewhere to get to and from Oceania... DXB, DOH, and AUH are aggressively selling their airports as wonderful stopovers, and they use very modern aircraft to get between Europe and Australia. Besides, their airports are becoming much more modern and their airlines provide more flights than ever before.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:24 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
HK is the main stop over for people flying Virgin on the 'Roo Route...
That's true, while SIN remains the stopover for BA for its LHR-SYD service. It looks like DXB is becoming the mega-hub for Europe-Oceania (especially Australia) flights.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 04:35 AM   #59
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@brisavoine, I don't think you understand what @fieldsofdreams is saying. He is saying that There is only one "Vol direct" from Paris to Papeete including a "Escale" in Los Angeles. To reach Australia or New Zealand, you will need to "Vols du commutation" in Dubai, Singapore or Hong Kong. "Compris?"
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Old May 5th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #60
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If you wanna fly from Paris to Papeete, you need to land in LA and change the plane there. If you wanna fly from Paris to Sydney, you need to land in either Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, and change the plane there. It's exactly the same thing. In both cases you buy a single ticket from Paris, and the flights have the same number (an AF number, because it's a codeshare agreement). You're even given both boarding passes in Paris.

For example here this lady flew on Air France/Aircalin from Paris to Nouméa, with a stopover in Osaka Kansai, and she was given her two boarding passes at CDG Airport, with the Air France logo on both passes:

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