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Greater Manchester Transport Projects Transport Matters For Greater Manchester and Surrounding Areas



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Old October 8th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #41
Salif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwell View Post
I think 13 and 14 are going to be extended onto the free space between the station and the MacDonald hotel.
How does that work then?

According to google earth the MacDonald hotel is across the road.

Are they going to knock through the facade?
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Old October 9th, 2007, 01:43 AM   #42
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Someone (can't remember who) mentioned in another post that the car park behind the CIS building should be demolished and the coach station moved.

As Manchester expands and develops a greater demand for coach services, anyone think it might be an idea if when the Mayfield station gets redeveloped (which could quite possibly happen) a provision is made to build a coach station on the side.
It would provide a better transport interchange with the central coach and train station next to each other (as well as a metro link and bus terminal nearby which it already has). Unless Google earth is so out of date I'm wrong but there looks like plenty of space for an expanded (with space for more future expansion) coach station around Mayfield. The location, closer to Mancunian way would make it quicker and easier to enter/exit the city while also reducing the level of traffic in the inner city center slightly. And moves the thing out the way if the car park was replaced with something more sightly.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #43
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Thats an excellant idea Spooney

Move the Coach sation to one of the Rail stations.

Close Piccadilly Gardens to buses and relocate them to the Coach station, will some Shude Hill type extension.

Looked at the possibility of building both the Flyover and the Curve and some increasing issues come up.

First most west incoming trains could go through Victoria and then straight into Piccadilly.

Or north east incoming trains could go straight from Miles Platting into Piccadilly.

Alternatively all east incoming trains going to the airport could go through Victoria and then pass Picc 13/14 and directly onto the Airport!!

There still would the issue of capacity along the Deansgate to Picc 13/14 lines.

Now I googled this last night and found a MEN article from 2003 (?) which costed this all at around £1bn. And yes I forget it so I will have to come back on that one.

Then as the wine starting to take affect I pondered if a Northern Cross Rail (Liverpool-Woodhead-Newcastle/Nottingham) route was commissioned could a (very very very expensive) tunnel be constructed from Liverpool Street under Albert Sq and out off Platform Zero at piccadilly?
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Old October 9th, 2007, 03:21 PM   #44
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Coach Centres should be spread around the ring road and well connected to the local public transport, as most people who use them don't have a destination in the city centre anyway.

There could be a Manchester South on the Airport Line, Manchester West near the Trafford Centre, Manchester East at Ashton Moss, and Manchester North somewhere near the M60/62 between Bury and Middleton.

That way coaches would be more efficient and they wouldn't clog up the streets coming into the city.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
How does that work then?

According to google earth the MacDonald hotel is across the road.

Are they going to knock through the facade?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...&t=h&z=18&om=1

You can see the space here. They aren't adding new platforms or anything, just expanding and improving what's there. This is from what I understand anyway.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 01:35 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Coach Centres should be spread around the ring road and well connected to the local public transport, as most people who use them don't have a destination in the city centre anyway.

There could be a Manchester South on the Airport Line, Manchester West near the Trafford Centre, Manchester East at Ashton Moss, and Manchester North somewhere near the M60/62 between Bury and Middleton.

That way coaches would be more efficient and they wouldn't clog up the streets coming into the city.
For this to be useful, the bus network would need a serious shake up.

When I megabus-it back from London, I arrive at MCR city centre..and then go straight back out again yes, so, I am indeed just creating more traffic.
The problem with the suggestion you've made is that, should I alight at a 'North' coach station in Moston; how do I get to Cheetham Hill?

It'd open up a can of 'First' bus-shaped-worms if implimented on its own.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #47
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Well yeah, it's only a solution that works with an upgraded public transport system, but we 'should' be getting one of those. If that coach stations are connected to the met, and then local buses are integrated into to the Met then it shouldn't be too difficult to get anywhere. Coaches would of course be able to stop at several stations on route, so for example Birmingham-Leeds could stop and Manchester South, East and North in the time it would have taken just to get in and out of town.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #48
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The huge "Buyuk Otogar" coach station in Istanbul has a light rail line going through the middle of it. Manchester could build a smaller version close to a motorway maybe ?
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Old October 10th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #49
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north manchester is geographiclly divided by the river avlleys of the Irk and Irwell and maybe if you want to include it the Medlock.

So whys its a beggar to travel across.

Should nt this coach discussion be on the Non Metrolink thread?
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Old October 10th, 2007, 02:56 PM   #50
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I did think that Brum New St was up for re-development.

At least my sister , who commutes every day there reassures me.

Nevertheless the "Manchester ceramic Hub" scheme IS critical to the rest of the North.

No it is not just Manc boosterism again, but what experts from all three RDA are saying.

Let me quote you from the City transport seminar conference in Liverpool, November 2006.

"Fixing the Manchester Hub must come first. The stretch of track through Central Manchester was by far and away the most important rail infrastructure investment for Liverpool stakeholders. Through not in Liverpool , the hub’s capacity constraints were extremely damaging to the Liverpool city region economy.

And from the relevant Northern Way report

"The Manchester Hub is critical for the improvement of rail links between the North’s city regions (eg Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, etc), access to the largest international airport in the North (MIA) and for the growth of rail freight traffic, including to and from the North’s major ports."

I think if this does come about, then it is the first step towards a Northern Crossrail, electricification and re-opening the Woodhead tunnel.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #51
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I think Manchester should have a Central Coach station, its like suggesting taht Train Stations are best placed round the M60, coaches are about bringing people into Town and thats not a bad thing

The bus situation though I agree needs altering, I think Shudehill is a great example of what you can do with a bus station obviously. But it only serves one area of greater Manchester, the north. So why not invest in 3 more projects on the outskirts of town.

Say top of Newton Street for the east of the city.

Somewhere in the Southern Gateway for the busy southern routes

And of course somewhere round Greengate/Exchange for God's City, Salford

We've seen that Bus stops/stations dont normally enhance an area, but Shudehill has had the total opposite effect, so I reckon more of this, and less buses clogging up Mosley Street/Portand Street is the way forward.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #52
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I think Manchester should have a Central Coach station, its like suggesting taht Train Stations are best placed round the M60, coaches are about bringing people into Town and thats not a bad thing
Most people live outside the city centre, all a transport hub needs to be is connected to decent public transport. Get a coach between London and Manchester and half the journey is on the motorway, the other half, fighting to get to the city centre. There's no need to have coaches clogging up the streets.

That one in Istanbul is in the suburb of Esenler about 5 miles out from the centre with it's own connection to the motorway.

A big coach station could be built next to the Trafford Centre if it had Metrolink access.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 05:38 PM   #53
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Most people live outside the city centre, all a transport hub needs to be is connected to decent public transport. Get a coach between London and Manchester and half the journey is on the motorway, the other half, fighting to get to the city centre. There's no need to have coaches clogging up the streets.

That one in Istanbul is in the suburb of Esenler about 5 miles out from the centre with it's own connection to the motorway.

A big coach station could be built next to the Trafford Centre if it had Metrolink access.
I fear this arguement is very similar to the one about why retail parks are a good idea.

Coaches heading for Manchester do stop along the way for those people who dont live/work/require in the city centre. There's a National Express Coach stop for example on Regent Road, but I think the final destination is important for business travellers and tourists. I see the need for a good central coach station as just as important as a Train Station for a gateway into Manchester.

Anyway, dont think we'll agree on this, but moving on, see my point above about how bus stations can be spread out around the city centre, there's no reason why we cant have the same system and have 2 coach stations in town, one for the North and one for the South, maybe?
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Old October 10th, 2007, 05:54 PM   #54
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A coach station at the Trafford Centre with it's own metrolink station would be far better than one in the city centre.It would provide a far better gateway to the conurbation i.e. it would be Greater Manchester's coach station. It's what they do in countries where the coach is King, there simply isn't the room in a city centre to build a good coach station. City Centre coach stations will always look like Chorlton Street, small, crap and for poor people.

There is a great potential for coach travel, in a small country like ours it can provide a good cheap alternative to the railways but it needs decent infrastructure. This can only occur outside the centre.

But it needs to be connected to a good public transport system.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #55
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I think Issac's idea is a good one but only as he said if the Metrolink was extended to it. Most people would then just take the metrolink into the city so the end result would be the same i.e. they see the city they are visiting and then use the transport interchanges to go where they want.

By stopping at an coach station on the outskirts, it would arrive a lot quicker, (and the metrolink would be quicker into town), save a lot of time for people not going into Manchester e.g. Liverpool and the point mentioned by many would reduce all the coaches going in and then out the city causing increased traffic.

Maybe the coach station could be by the airport though where there is already a fast train service into town, the plan of a Metrolink extension there and as many people take coaches into Manchester to go to the airport could make transportation easier?

In any case this should now be moved to its own thread, didnt mean for this to become a main discussion.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 12:07 PM   #56
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It's a crap idea, so the coach station is in the trafford centre and i live in Droylsden (or did) so instead of just getting one bus out of the city centre, I have to get 2, 1 in, and 1 out. It's like saying all offices should be on the outskirts of the city, or all shops. It should be built to serve the most people, since they come from N, S, E and W the best place is in the centre where the traffic links are.

The suburban coach stations only work in cities with extensive urban transport systems with integrated ticketing (like Berlin) not places where you'd have to pay £2 for your Stagecoach ticket into the centre, and another £2 for your Arriva one out again.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 01:26 PM   #57
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It would only work if connected to a light rail line. In countries were coaches are the main form of intercity transport, coach stations have to be outside the centre because they are so big, places like Buyuk Otogar in Istanbul, Tiete in Sao Paulo and Retiro in Buenos Aires are huge and are out in the suburbs or on the edge of the centre.

We as ever are years behind the rest of the planet in our mindset.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 01:34 PM   #58
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Transport nodes are dictated by the form of the networks they serve. City central train stations are needed because the city centres are where the lines terminate and distribute from. So getting a train to Piccadilly and changing to another train taking you to your eventual destination (which is why Victoria has been run down, and why Piccadilly is so busy) is the most efficient journey for all passengers, as their is no detour that slows anyone.

Coaches use motorways to go from place to place. As motorways (rightly) don't penetrate the central city core it makes sense for their stations to be as close to the arteries of this network as possible. Obviously they need to be well integrated to a local transport system, but with tram expansions to Trafford and Ashton coach stations at these locations would be well connected to the rest of the conurbation, and would be useful for terminating and direct services.

If anyone wishes to respond to this it may be better to do so in a new thread.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 02:30 PM   #59
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You couldn't fit something like this into a city centre, nor would you want to.
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Old October 14th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #60
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New thread for coach/bus station discussion:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=534883
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