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Old July 18th, 2012, 03:46 AM   #1
Dvblvnia
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Whither Anna Livia? Dublin in 2032

I thought I’d start a thread on something which would be of interest to a lot of contributors here, namely the future shape of our island’s premier city – Dublin. In my view this century presents a great opportunity to develop Dublin into a place where Irish people (and those who come from overseas) can live, work and relax in a sustainable and enriching environment. The 20th century was distinguished by the rise and then domination of the motor car fuelled by easily extracted fossil fuels. So much of our society is shaped by these vehicles. They have supported a suburban and exurban pattern of settlement which is likely to come under increasing strain as time goes on. Drops in oil stocks and the environmental costs of emissions will eventually force policy towards a public transport-led orientation. We have already seen this year that a spike in prices at the pump caused families commuting from places like Laois and Offaly great strain. Urban areas are the places in which public transport works best so it stands to reason that we should emphasise growth in these areas this century. People living in cities and towns can use the train, bus or tram and those services are supported if more people live within easy reach of them.

The Republic’s population is likely to top 5 million by the end of this decade and 6 million by the next. Natural increase is at record levels and, while it is not likely to continue at boom levels forever, should nonetheless remain at the heights of European standards. Consistently high natural increases seem to be a cultural phenomenon unique to Ireland. Equally, while net emigration blunts Irish population growth at the moment, as the recession recedes net immigration should resume – returning us to something approaching 2% per annum population growth. In this environment, Ireland’s population should be at or around 6 million by 2032. This would represent an increase of 1.4 million on current levels. County Dublin currently accounts for 28% of the population at 1.27 million. Its share should be increased to about 33% by 2032 in order to achieve a more economically and environmentally sustainable pattern of settlement in this country so as to fulfil our commitments set out in Kyoto. Dublin’s population should then be 2 million.

In order for Dublin to successfully absorb this increase in population and to deliver the public transport-led pattern of development; DART Underground, Metro North and Luas BXD would need to be completed. These pieces of infrastructure which are vital at current levels become unavoidably essential in a Dublin of 2 million. Moreover, they also facilitate the sustainable development of the city by increasing the accessibility of a variety of greenfield, brownfield, infill and partially-completed sites around the city. Concentrating development of a high-density characteristic in these areas would go a long way towards housing the additional 750,000 denizens of Dublin. Adamstown, Balgaddy, Clongriffin, Sandyford, Rialto etc. etc. are places in which significant densification is possible and indeed desirable. Equally, another attempt at developing the docklands into a truly high-rise area would be supported by having DART Underground enhance the connectivity of Pearse and Docklands train stations. Alongside these keystone railway projects the Lucan, Swords and N11 QBCs should be upgraded to BRT lines. Cycleways across the city such as Sutton to Sandycove will also require development to the standard of the current Grand Canal Cycleway. Dublin Bikes must be extended to Whitehall, Inchicore, UCD and Ringsend. Dublin Airport needs a second runway and will probably require a third terminal if passenger volumes reach 35 million by 2032.

But the infrastructural needs of Dublin go much further than just transport. Waste management of an expanded city will also need investment – the Poolbeg incinerator will probably need the go ahead. Furthermore, a waste-water treatment facility has to be built in Fingal to take the strain off Ringsend. Grangegorman must be completed, DCU developed further and the UCD Gateway project progressed to give us four world-leading university grounds with which to attract the globe’s best and brightest. Sports venues must also be enhanced to reflect a city with greater global prestige – Croke Park should be made a UEFA Elite Standard stadium, Parnell Park and Dalymount overhauled. We should also develop more sporting facilities to attract a greater variety of world sporting events to the city.

Underpinning all this is a vision of Dublin as one of the top twenty cities of the world. This is not as outlandish an ambition as it might seem – Dublin is already in the top thirty cities of the world according to the GaWC rankings. Dublin is currently the number one location for international funds, is the hub of aircraft-leasing and is the base for virtually every US multinational’s EMEA operations. These are strengths we can build on in a bigger and better Dublin. Moreover, population is not a barrier to global pre-eminence. Sydney is ranked in the same category as Tokyo even though it is eight times smaller. Dublin is currently equivalent to Mexico City which is fifteen times as populous. That being said, an increased population base does give a city a greater latent force and also supports a wider range of amenities which are critical to it contesting for global relevance.

Dublin should look to targets like being the main centre for Islamic finance in Europe, a focal point for Chinese, Brazilian and Indian businesses in Europe and the literary capital of the world. We already have the UNESCO City of Literature status, let’s live up to it and make Dublin the mainstay of the publishing world. This should be part of a wider effort to putting Dublin on the global artistic, sporting and entertainment scene. Champions League finals, IRB Rugby and Sevens World Cups, ATP World Tour Finals and perhaps a Formula 1 Grand Prix could and should be hosted in Dublin. Dublin Contemporary got off to a strong start as a festival of art and culture – our aim should be to have it on a par with the Venice Biennale. A Dublin Fashion Week should strive to match those in New York, London, Paris and Milan. Maybe Dublin should also become the city to host a European franchise of Comic-Con. Dublin is already twinned with San Diego, we’re full of animation and computer geeks for whom comics are a passion and we’re an attractive city for holidaymakers. TED should also be encouraged to host a conference here regularly and Dublin should bid to host the European Athletics Finals.

While I’d be the first to say that not all these objectives may be realised, it shouldn’t stop us trying. Dublin is the key factor in whether Ireland succeeds or fails as a nation and as an Irishman as well as a Dub I want Dublin to be as good as it possibly can be to deliver the strongest boost achievable to the rest of the country. Dublin already is a grand city with a lot of strengths but it could be so much greater if we are willing to think bigger and better.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 12:09 PM   #2
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This is, without a doubt, one of the best posts I've read on here, Dvblvnia! I agree with everything you say.

You're spot on in terms of public transport infrastructure. I would also add that the Eastern Bypass is another important project (though should be done after the likes of the Metro or DART Underground), in order to complete the M50.

The city centre needs a complete overhaul in some areas. Schemes such as the repaving of the Grafton Street 'quarter' are a good start, but the entire city centre needs to experience such a scheme (in particular College Green, which should become a plaza, and Westmoreland Street). Much improvement can also be made when it comes to protecting building façades in this area, too.

Definitely agree about other types of infrastructure such as waste and water management. Incineration (despite all the controversy) should become the norm, and used in district heating schemes like it is in a host of other countries. And these incinerators don't need to be bland, industrial buildings - here's an example of one in Vienna.

Crucially, I think one of the most important things for Dublin is proper local governance. Firstly, Dublin (the urban area at least) should not be split among four local authorities. The conspiracy theorist in me says that the Corporation was split in the 1990s so as to avoid Dublin becoming a powerful and populous local authority that would challenge the national government - indeed, national government after national government seem to prefer local government to be weak. 'Dublin City' has just 527,612 residents, but the urban area (which is what we all consider 'Dublin') has 1,110,627. It doesn't make any sense that half the urban area's residents don't live in the 'City'. So firstly, we need a singular Dublin authority for the entire city.

Secondly, the city needs a directly elected mayor with real powers (in particular, over transport and security), and local government should get the proceeds from any future property taxes, as well as find other sources of revenue.

And finally, the city (and country) should definitely aim to be the best it can be, and this includes hosting major events such as the ESOF last week. This may sound disingenuous, but there is a severe lack of civic pride among many city residents, who seem to actively dislike any attempted improvements to the city. Contrast this with the likes of Auckland (a city not much bigger than Dublin that just unified all of its local authorities into a single body with more powers and a directly elected mayor), where the council actively plan for the city to become the world's most liveable.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #3
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I totally agree with you Dvblvnia 100% but as much as I like your vision, I just cant see it happening. The people who run this city are the wrong ones and are doing it wrong. I feel that these people lack knowledge if I am honest. I have said it before and I will say it again and that is that Dublin has a great opportunity to have a bit of everything in it. When you look at the likes of New York which is a small area full of skyscrapers and then you look at London which is a huge area of urban sprawl and then you lok at Dublin which has the potential to have what both those cities have. New York built high because they had to. We dont have to but we can. We can still have the suburbs and have historical Dublin but we can also have a highrise center in the docks and in places like Hueston. Then we also have north Dublin which is full of fields. We could still have a green city. Build a big park up there like the Phoenix Park and fill it with loads of cool stuff. We can do alot with this city and we really can make it great. Thats why it really annoys me when we see people ABP rejecting everything with height.

I would love to see a Dublin with the Eastern Bypass complete and the Metro and DART Underground complete. A second longer runway at the airport is a must in my eyes. Dublin and Ireland are in a great position on the map. We are on the edge of Europe and Asia and we are close to America. When I see something like that, my head immediately says to me that we should be a hub for both continents. The airport should have more flights from the US and Asia but we need that second runway to do that. This is a must.

We also need a new prison outside the prison and we need to knock Mountjoy down. We could build a brand new village there and have another Temple Bar there or something like that. We also need a Chinatown I think. Even thinking about all this gets me excited but if its going to happen change will be needed.

Onto my favourite subject now and that is sport. Dublin needs an event like the Champions League final. The world will be watching and it would help tourism. We also should bid for the Euro's or the world cup. I dont think we would get the world cup but if we have a great airport and very good transport we could be in with a shot. I have a very cheeky dream for us to bid for the Olympics. Build an Olympic Village in north Dublin not to far from the airport. I know it wont happen but it does make sense in a way. Yes alot of money would be spent but the worlds eyes would be on Dublin and Ireland. Spend a lot of money on advertising it and make Ireland look great to the world. Thats just a dream though.

Another thing on the airport is that I think we need that business district they had planed for tor the area around it. That would help the airport grow big time. You fly into Dublin for a meeting and in 3 minutes you are there because its right beside the airport.

At the end of the day it will all depend on change in the way the city is run. I agree with Catmalojin about the four local authorities. Also if Dublin is to grow we will need highrise to do it but ABP are against that. Urban sprwal wont help. Very good thread to start Dvblvnia.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 03:52 AM   #4
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Great responses, JD47 and Catmalojin. You make excellent observations on my OP. The Eastern Bypass is another key piece of infrastructure which would deliver a city capable of housing up to 2 and even 3 million people. That said, its route and composition need to be carefully designed. We need to maintain the gorgeous views of Dublin bay which make a trip on the DART so worthwhile, the wetland bird sanctuary in Booterstown, the Dublin Port area for cargo and cruise ships etc. We also need to clarify where it will be tunnelled and how to manage that. Metro North and DART Underground have been through this process and have emerged as well-sculpted proposals which would slot well into the fabric of the city.

Catmalojin, you're quite right about the byzantine nature of government for Dublin. We have multitudes in authority of the city, but none responsible. Four local authorities sunder the traditional county of Dublin while the greater Dublin city is supervised by seven different and often competing regional governments. It wouldn't be so bad if these regions had the power and funds to do some tangible things but our centralised unitary state denies local government that opportunity. We need to create a Greater Dublin Council which oversees the city as a whole. I would define this by combining the route networks of Dublin Suburban Rail and Dublin Bus. If your town is served by either or both of these services, you live in Dublin city and should have a say in how it's run. We can draw some pretty lines on a map to generate an aesthetically-pleasing geographically-contiguous region from this for the GDC to govern. Furthermore, a directly-elected mayor should lead the executive of this council and assume the Lord Mayorship as well so they can be the actual and ceremonial leader of Dublin. By having someone to champion Dublin we can be more confident of getting the investment and infrastructure needed to deliver the vision of Dublin as a top twenty city.

The DIT move is a great opportunity for the city to create environments for commercial, social and artistic endeavours. DIT's buildings on Kevin, Cathal Brugha, Bolton and Aungier streets et al. are all great places for something new and exciting once DIT finally moves to Grangegorman.

Another thing Dublin needs to address over the next twenty years is the question of density. Accommodating about a million new citizens is a great task, even with the development of Clongriffin, Adamstown, Balgaddy etc. That is why I propose a fundamental increase in height and density throughout the city core, particularly towards its southwest flanks. I am not proposing turning Dublin between the canals into Manhattan (even though a few 25+ storey buildings would be part of this) but instead into something like Paris or Athens. Both of these cities have managed to achieve very high densities without building to stratospheric levels. Equally it must be noted they have achieved it in an environment of historical architecture. In light of this, Dublin betwixt the Grand and the Royal should look to build up from 3-4 storeys to 8-10 with 2-3 storey setbacks from the street. This is a very attainable way of more than doubling plot densities in some instances without raising the ire of anti-high rise advocates. It also offers a chance to improve the fabric of street environments and give them a real city rather than town character. Sometimes when walking the streets of Dublin it is possible to forget you are in a city of over a million people when trees regularly overlook buildings. Eight and ten-storey streets befit a city, particularly the leading city of the island.

All this being said, one must be mindful of the smaller details as well. Street signage, shopfront design, standards in roadworks, street furniture, appropriate placements of trees, litter etc. should all be addressed in order for Dublin to turn its best face possible to the world. Again, some of this can be traced to the local government Dublin is given. I was on a trip to Cork recently and I was struck by how much more assiduously these standards were upheld there compared to my own home town. Cork City Council seem to actually care about how their city looks in detail and it shows. Dublin City Council have instead followed the policy of malign neglect and our city has suffered for it. For Dublin to succeed and for us to achieve all the great things we want it do, it must first address these.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #5
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Another target which Dublin could be aiming for over the next twenty years would be to become the International Student Capital of the World. Being the top destination for the world's best and brightest and future leaders could be a great means of putting Dublin on the map and developing international stature and a connection to all parts of the globe.

Dublin has natural strengths in this regard which would support this goal. Dubliners speak English which is the lingua franca of international business and the global youth. It is also the capital of a neutral country which makes it less contentious to attract say Iranian students. Dublin is perhaps the youngest capital city in Europe which would make it attractive to college-goers of the world; we have an abundance of pubs, clubs, cafés, shops and eateries which would entice a teenager/twentysomething. Dublin already hosts thousands of Spanish and Italian students every summer, so why not be a bit more ambitious and aim to have more students from more countries for longer periods of time?

China, India and Brazil should be particularly targetted in this endeavour. Trinity, UCD, DCU, DIT, NCAD and the RCSI should launch roadshows in the top twenty cities of these emerging powers with the aim of convincing thousands of school-leavers from these countries to spend at least a term at one of Dublin's colleges.

Achieving the target of becoming the capital of international learning would have a number of positive effects - increased funds for third level(which can be ploughed into improving courses for natives), business for Dublin's landlords, shopkeepers and publicans, a greater level of cosmopolitanism in Dublin and a chance to provide the future leaders of the world's new powers with a positive experience of Dublin and Ireland.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #6
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Hey Gang

Firstly, Dvblvnia, that was an excellent op. A true tour de force! Apologies for not responding sooner but I really only had time to dip in and out over the past few days, so I deliberately didn't post because I felt the quality of your op deserved a considered response.

Secondly, thanks to Catmalojin and JD for truely enlightening responses which raise many cojent points.

In a sense, I kind of agree with JD, I can't really see any of this happening. Not that I think it will be as dire as he predicts but rather we will muddle through at a level somewhere in between the best and worst predictions, as always. I wouldn't entirely blame "politicians/civil servants" etc for any percieved failures, rather I think much of the lack of ambition in the past and indeed lack of any defining vision of the future can be substantially blamed on the cynical attitude many Dubliners issue about anything and everything.

For example, I am old enough to remember the late Jim Mitchell whilst Lord Mayor in the 1980s advocating that Dublin should try to bid for the Olympics if only to give the City and its Citizens something of a boost. Not only was he rebuffed but he was the subject of redicule for having made the suggestion for many years afterwards. Likewise, only recently I have come accross two examples of this sort of attitude in my own circle of friends. On own occasion several months ago I brought up the subject of us possibly bidding to host the Rugby World Cup and jointly host the European Championships, I was completely taken aback that all of my sports loving friends, to a man, poured scorn on the very idea of Ireland hosting anything. Furthermore, recently I had the privilage of watching the F1 Street racing from a penthouse office suite where one of my friends works. It was situated right opposite the Conference Centre so I brought up the fact that ABP had refused permission for a 35-40 storey Hotel there ,even though with all the Hotels built in dubious locations during the Celtic Tiger, adjoining a Conference Centre of this scale was one location where a Hotel was needed. The friend I made the remarks to was aghast, opinioning that "maybe" 15 stories might be acceptable but 40 was out of line. When I pointed out my surprise at the firmness of his response given that he wasn't into architecture, and that he had raved about his time in Australia and how cool the Cities were over there the glib response was "yeah, but this it Dublin no Sydney"...sorry for the preamble but that quote I feel sums up why even if we do get politicians and leaders of vision we still might not get the City we deserve....because anybody who trys to do anything will fight a running battle to change peoples minds. Remember, Irish people love to complain, automatically assume that if the Government is doing something it must be for the wrong reasons and have absolutely no problem being hypocritical when it suits them.

Anywho, that aside I loved some of the ideas that have been raised here.

Personally I would support a directly elected and accountable Mayor in Dublin. I tend to agree with other posters that the reason we don't have one is that the Central Government doesn't want a powerful rival. Objectively speaking though we shouldn't entirely dismiss that principle. It is for this reason that London was without a directly elected Mayor for so long and similar reasons are given as to why Parisians didn't elect a Mayor until the 1970s despite the issue being on the agenda for decades previously. Just think about it though, say for example we held a Mayoral election tomorrow, the likelyhood is that many parties would turn it into a referendum on the Government rather then have a debate about Dublin and its future. Likewise in the relatively likely event that a candidate from the ULA or SF was elected the post of Dublin Mayor would be very politicised with the office of Mayor lending its support to every "anti" campaign going. I'm not saying dissent is a back thing but there is the posibility that Dublin could for political purposes be pitched against the very Government thats funding it! I the UK or France this is less of an issue because they have other large Cities, indeed in the UK several Cities rejected directly elected Mayors in local plebisites for this and other reasons. Having said that, I have spent a fair bit of time in Barcelona and its having a strong directly elected executive Mayor (who served multiple terms) was instrumental in it making the leap from being a regional grimey industrial City in the immediate post Franco era to become a global chic international centre which hosted the Olympics!

On the issue of height and density, well I sing from the same hymsheet as you guys. Its entirely possible to increase densities without destroying our comparitively few remaining historic structures. In fact in several instances I would advocated reconstructing historic buildings in several locations as happened in Europe post wwii. We should correct the wrongs of the philistines who decimated old Dublin between the 1960s and 1990s. However, unlike the An Taisce fanatics I also believe that old and new can exist side by side, thats what makes a City afterall. A dense core between the canals intersperced with highrise clusters at key public transport nodes such as the Docklands, Conolly, Heuston etc is entirely achievable. I the Cities surrounds there is plenty of room for infill development. For example I live in a typical 1970s housing estate, were every street has a "green" composed of several acres of unutilisted grassed area which costs money to maintain. Why not build on some of these. A shortage of space or building land is not a problem in Dublin despite who those in certain quarters say. Furthermore, the SDZ concept which was supposed to guide the likes of Adamstown was never exploited to its full extent. I have a theory that it was never going to be used whilst Counties surrounding Dublin were cashing in on by providing Dubliners with accommodation 30-50 miles from their place of work!

I agree that incineration is the way to go. I would argue about the location though. In my opinion the treatment plant at Ringsend is a giant concrete statement that Dublin Bay will remain offlimits to its citizens. I feel that the Sewage works along with the commercial port and power station should be located to a new super port in North County Dublin. Sure, thje communites there would object strenulously, but logically its better to discomode a small number of people living in a dispersed rural landscape rather then a very large number of people living in a tightly populated City Centre. Think about this, many landlocked continental Cities would give anything for our seaside location for accomodation and recreation and what do we do....effectively close it off by siteing our most obtrusive and poluting industries right in the middle of the Bay. That really says it all!

Ok, I am being called away....hopefully I can write a second installment tonight

C
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Old July 26th, 2012, 04:47 AM   #7
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Thanks for your your thoughts, thebig C. As you rightly point out, attitude is a primary stumbling block to achieving great things with Dublin city. You can have all the plans, policies and infrastructural projects and it won't transform a good city into a great one without the attitude required to make it happen. Dublin can often be too hard on itself and not vocal enough in putting forward the case for what it needs to be a success both as an Irish and an international city. This is of huge concern because the cities Dublin is competing with globally often do not have these compunctions. Singapore, Tel Aviv, Luxembourg and so on all have great ambitions to being focal points in many areas of global commerce, society and culture. These are fostered and supported by the nations to which they belong. For Dublin to have at least an equal chance against these places we need Dubliners to have a winning and positive attitude about their city. Moreover, we need to stop the culture of begrudgery to Dublin found elsewhere in the country. These people need to understand the symbiotic relationship between Dublin and the Rest of Ireland. Supporting Dublin means that you are supporting yourself, even if you live in Donegal, Mayo or Kerry. In many cases, it's either Dublin or somewhere else in the world for a planned investment by a company or global event like the European Science Forum. Like a football team with a great striker, midfielders should give the ball to them and protect them against the rest of the other team in order for their team to score goals and win matches. Begrudging their star striker the ball does nothing but ensure defeat for both.

We should indeed be aiming to host events like the Olympics. Whether we want to host the Olympics is another matter (the actual benefit to the host city has been contested, the host city is effectively taken over during the event and the cost may push us into another debt problem) but we should have the ambition and the belief to actually think that we have the ability to do it. You'd think hosting the Special Olympics (first city to host them outside the US) would have silenced these doubts but the Irish inferiority complex is a tough one to budge.

We also need pride in our city in how it looks, operates and develops its potential. Everything from shoddy standards in shop signage to littering on the streets to junkies being let away with behaviour on the Luas to the fact the two Luas lines aren't joined up stems in some part from a lack of pride. Dubliners somehow don't seem to feel they're worthy to live in a city of top-twenty dimensions. For us to achieve these dimenstions, this reality must change.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 03:14 PM   #8
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I have a question. How many people could live in Dublin if it was full of houses in North Dublin and South Dublin? What if all of north Dublin was full of highrise like in New York, what would the population be? Because I read something interesting that said that you could fit Manhattan Island in North Dublin. I always wondered what the population of Dublin would be if it was full of skyscrapers(residential, offices) like New York. If we started to build like Manhattan all up in north Dublin, what would the population be about? Anyone have any idea?
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Old July 31st, 2012, 04:02 PM   #9
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Just because manhattan has tall buildings doesnt mean theres a lot of people living there..inface Dublin has a bigger population than manhattan!
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 04:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickguy
Just because manhattan has tall buildings doesnt mean theres a lot of people living there..inface Dublin has a bigger population than manhattan!
Yeah in greater Dublin area.....Manhattan is 33sq miles with a population of 1.6 million. Dublin City is 44sq miles with a population under 600,000.

The population of NYC is over twice that of the entire Irish Republic.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 03:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickguy View Post
Just because manhattan has tall buildings doesnt mean theres a lot of people living there..inface Dublin has a bigger population than manhattan!
Manhattan is an area smaller then south Dublin. There are a lot of people living there for its size.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 08:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belfastuniguy View Post
Yeah in greater Dublin area.....Manhattan is 33sq miles with a population of 1.6 million. Dublin City is 44sq miles with a population under 600,000.

We all know the Dublin City Council area represents a small part of urban Dublin though. These figures can be distorted easily depending on one's definition.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:34 PM   #13
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Just for the hell of it, this is from the CSO's SAPMAP server, which lets you look at demographic information from last year's census in different geographic areas.

When it comes to 'Dublin city and suburbs', it says this...

Quote:
The total population in this settlement was 1,110,627, of which Males numbered 539,742 and Females were 570,885. The total housing stock was 466,425, of which vacant households numbered 39,064. With an approximate area of 317.49 sq km, this settlement has a 2011 population density of 3,498 persons per sq km.
By contrast, Manhattan's population density is 26,939/km2, New York City as a whole is 10,519/km2.

Coming back to points raised above, I agree totally about aiming to attract more international students. Not only would it be great for the economy (particularly if we overhaul the visa system to allow skilled graduates who studied here to stay on), but it would add great diversity to the city.

Although not as important, but an issue that irks me, I'd love to see a huge liberalisation of licensing laws (not just in the city, but nationally). Having bars, pubs and clubs close at around 02:30-03:30 (sometimes later around Harcourt Street) doesn't do much to help stimulate the night-time economy. Ideally (in the city centre at least), I would have 24-hour licensing. Not only would this increase the night-time economy, as well as tourism, I'd imagine it would sort out a lot of anti-social behaviour and crime issues - having everyone pile out into the streets and into fast food restaurants at the exact same time is a recipe for disaster!

Last edited by Catmalojin; August 2nd, 2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #14
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Hello guys!!!

I was having this conversation with a mate of mine on the population of Dublin. We were both wondering whether Dublin could fit 10 million people into the county borders. Do you think it possible? Lets say we are in another huge boom and have the money for the infrastructure needed and a metro line like the London Underground, do you think we would have the space? Places like New York are very dense and have 8 million people living there, however, New York City is smaller then the area of Dublin.

I was thinking it could be done. If we had all those properties(houses) in the city center demolished and high-rise built in its place, then I think we could do it. There is so much land in North Dublin and if the docks and the port were made into high-rise to. If we redone all the Georgian buildings that are rundown and abandoned and had people living in them and if we redone all the rundown areas with high-rise and mid-rise, we could really boost the population. Its just a thought.

Its just a thought that I thought was a good topic to discuss as engineering and technology is getting more advanced. Forget the recession and ABP's hatred for everything high-rise. Would you think we would have enough room for all those people in a rich, successful, cash to burn Dublin?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #15
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It could be possible but not with the people that live here now. The run down crappy houses beside city centre will be protected by unimaginative backwards thinking people with their own blood..

But yeah if they weren't there, we can definitely have around 10 million in the county with the proper infrastructure in place. Dublin county is roughly the same area as NYC if you take all the water in NYC out of context. And since we're building a city from scratch with the modern technology made available to us from our newfound riches we could use space much more efficiently than New York

Here's my solution: Let's invade Bull Island and build our own Dublin 2.0 there, stick as many skyscrapers in it as we want and we could possibly have around 2 million people living there, up from like 0 now
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #16
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Here's my solution: Let's invade Bull Island and build our own Dublin 2.0 there, stick as many skyscrapers in it as we want and we could possibly have around 2 million people living there, up from like 0 now
Haha, its funny you say that because I have always looked at Bull Island and said to myself ''with a bit more land added to it, it would make a good place to build a financial high-rise district.'' 2 million people? I will take it you are joking. I couldn't see it possible to house 2 million people on the island, unless you are building a few skyscrapers that will hit the moon.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #17
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It is nice to read such an optimistic and modern words about the city where we live - thanks Dvblvnia for a great idea. It is also nice to read all the optimistic and modern answers, comments and opinions - thanks Catmalojin, JD47, thebig C for your great ideas.

Well, I guess that everything what can be said has already been said but I`d like to share my point of view, my beliefs and my outlook with You. First of all, as an Polish man , as an European man and as a nearly Irish man (Irish Citizenship through by Naturalisation - what will happen sooner or later anyway - fingers crossed for sooner).

I would like to say that it would be very nice to go on to my grandchildren about Dublin in its early years of the 21st century. About the times when the Metro (Underground) was built and has 5 lines now across whole city. About the times when all the major transport, infrastructural and housing developments projects were eventuated in implementation.

About the times when people became convinced that it was much better
to start studying in Dublin than in London, Paris; that it was much better to buy a house in Dublin than anywhere else; that it was much safer to save their money in the Irish banks in Dublin than in the other countries; that Dublin was the best place in Europe to start a family.

And obviously I would tell them a lot of more stories about the Great Dublin and I would be proud of the city I am living in and I would be proud of the country which
citizenship I received.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #18
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Haha, its funny you say that because I have always looked at Bull Island and said to myself ''with a bit more land added to it, it would make a good place to build a financial high-rise district.'' 2 million people? I will take it you are joking. I couldn't see it possible to house 2 million people on the island, unless you are building a few skyscrapers that will hit the moon.
We'll get there, eventually

Okay, maybe 2 million is over enthusiastic but I definitely think we can fit a million in there if we build it up a little bit. The beaches around it is like 11km in perimeter! Bull Island is getting bigger and bigger anyway, within a few decades, it'll be kissing Dollymount.

Somebody write this down, this could be the future!
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #19
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Forget about Bull Island!!! If we could rid of the shitty por up to Drogheda it would be a good start!!!

When there is a resurrgence in the population there should be encouragment to convert buildings within the canals to residential use. Building crappy duplexes out on the M50 should be a serious non-no!!!

The Georigian buildings have the potential to contain 4or5 100sq metre apartments, which are ideal for comfortable living!!!
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Old March 21st, 2013, 12:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by kreator1984 View Post
It is nice to read such an optimistic and modern words about the city where we live - thanks Dvblvnia for a great idea. It is also nice to read all the optimistic and modern answers, comments and opinions - thanks Catmalojin, JD47, thebig C for your great ideas.

Well, I guess that everything what can be said has already been said but I`d like to share my point of view, my beliefs and my outlook with You. First of all, as an Polish man , as an European man and as a nearly Irish man (Irish Citizenship through by Naturalisation - what will happen sooner or later anyway - fingers crossed for sooner).

I would like to say that it would be very nice to go on to my grandchildren about Dublin in its early years of the 21st century. About the times when the Metro (Underground) was built and has 5 lines now across whole city. About the times when all the major transport, infrastructural and housing developments projects were eventuated in implementation.

About the times when people became convinced that it was much better
to start studying in Dublin than in London, Paris; that it was much better to buy a house in Dublin than anywhere else; that it was much safer to save their money in the Irish banks in Dublin than in the other countries; that Dublin was the best place in Europe to start a family.

And obviously I would tell them a lot of more stories about the Great Dublin and I would be proud of the city I am living in and I would be proud of the country which
citizenship I received.
Really great words Kreator.

I love the way you are proud to live here. If only more people living here(me being one of them) seen the country the way you do, it would be a better place.

You don't need a citizenship to be Irish in my opinion. You contribute a good bit here and would be a real loss to this forum if you left.
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