The generic gun massacre thread

[Paddington]

One of these shootings happens every few months, and then liberals blame conservatives and threaten to ban guns... Meanwhile, everyone forgets after a few weeks. I think people just need to accept that a few random acts of violence like this are going to happen occasionally in a big country. Not much you can do about it, except not live in Denver I guess.

[theidealcopy two]

The guy is obviously a penile dementive, probably has no dick either, hence his fetish for guns and shooting innocent people dead.

Keeps on happening in the world, doesn't it?

[ill tonkso]

Originally Posted by theidealcopy two

The guy is obviously a penile dementive, probably has no dick either, hence his fetish for guns and shooting innocent people dead.

Keeps on happening in the world, doesn't it?

Pushing it a bit aren't we?

[Aaronj09]

Originally Posted by desertswo

Ooooooooohhhhhhh, well, touched a nerve have we? Don't like your country being pissed on by a Yank do we? It's not fun, is it? Maybe you, and others here, ought not to resort to the sort of hyperbole and selective news reading as I've seen here this morning. You all do not understand the nature of our culture just as clearly as I do not understand yours. I'm willing to disengage, but something tells me that won't happen. You know, curiously, much of this stubbornness in the American psyche is the product of some we descend from "spiritually." They had names like Boone, and Crockett, and Jackson, and Houston, and on and on and on, and they sprang from that wellspring of such bullheadedness in that island just to your west.

You only touched a nerve because football hooliganism is not a serious problem in England. Gun crime is a serious problem in the US. There's a difference.

There's issues here too, but not on the same scale as in the US. And even so, you're less likely to be murdered here, and I'd rather get robbed than shot in the face.

[Pob_88]

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

You only touched a nerve because football hooliganism is not a serious problem in England. Gun crime is a serious problem in the US. There's a difference.

There's issues here too, but not on the same scale as in the US. And even so, you're less likely to be murdered here, and I'd rather get robbed than shot in the face.

Ditto football hooliganism is nothing like it was thats not being defensive thats just the way it is.

[alonzo-ny]

Gun control and this incident are two different things. I think maybe the gun control discussion should be in its own thread so this incident can actually get some time.

[bigchrisfgb]

Terrible, RIP to all the ones who died and for those who lived through it and the loved ones of the people who died well I hope they are all given the full support they will need to get through it all.

Echo's of Derick Bird and Raul Moat, both of which happened close to where I live. Raul Moat more so though.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by desertswo

I can tell you right now that law enforcement personnel in the US would resist any requirement on their part to deprive people of their firearms en mass. While he almost certainly never said it, the quote often attributed to Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku that, "you cannot invade the United States; there is a rifle behind every blade of grass" is applicable in that regard. Besides, most cops I know come down on the so called "gun lobby" as counter-intuitive as that sounds.

As El Mariachi keeps trying to make clear, but apparently not with any success as you are all so busy "tsk, tsking" in our general direction, "we" are not "you." We haven't been you for over 200 years. You have no real "feel" for what it took, rightly or wrongly, to build this country. I live here in the "wild, wild west" where I leaned to rope and ride, and use a Colt .45 and Winchester .30-30 with great alacrity. Gun ownership and use is so infused into my being that I cannot begin to explain it to you. Suffice it to say, I am done trying because you will NEVER "get it."

And isn't that the disconnect? There are large populated parts of America that are not the 'wild west' - in the central city or the shopping mall the virtues of roping a steer or taking out a rattler are a moot point. As for the quotation you mention frequently attributed to Admiral Yamamoto, that all seems a bit quaint now, even the hardware available to many Americans would be pretty useless against weapons an invading force might be likely to have.

[andysimo123]

What I find most shocking isn't the culture or the constitution or what people think, its that no one seems to have the answer or no one wants to take any action. Lets get a few things straight, its legal to own certain types of guns in the UK and theres nothing stopping me or many of you owning a shot gun or similar. I know people who own them but there are certain regulations. They have to be stored correctly and as an example the Police can turn up at any time, complete checks, then ask you and others certain questions. Answer them wrong and you could be arrested. In the UK we've had massacres and other examples of shootings. Following that action has been taken to reduce the risk and put greater control on them. Stronger rules have been put in place and certain types of weapons have been banned which has helped reduce crime and the risk. To say nothing should be done because 'its culture' or its a 'mind set' is completely mad.

Some times you have to do things people really don't like but they learn to live with it and people change. Smoking ban or fox hunting for example. I'm pretty sure while many Americans wouldn't agree with the banning or limiting of hand guns, if you slowly introduce measures to limit them over the space of 10-20 years that mind set will change.

Also anyone saying 'guns bans' were designed to completely stop gun crime is living on another planet but to say there is a massive problem is well off the mark. The British Police have armed response units for a reason.

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

You only touched a nerve because football hooliganism is not a serious problem in England. Gun crime is a serious problem in the US. There's a difference.

There's issues here too, but not on the same scale as in the US. And even so, you're less likely to be murdered here, and I'd rather get robbed than shot in the face.

I live in the U.S., and wild shooting sprees by gun nuts is very, very low on the list of things that I worry about, probably just below getting poked in the eye by low hanging tree branches and just above getting mauled by escaped wild animals from the zoo.

[WatcherZero]

This US perception of Gun Culture however is a modern artifact, a century ago and all through the 'frontier culture' there was more guns in the UK than the US, starting with the government publically encouraging archery practise, the 1689 Declaration of Rights and numerous laws encouraging weapons training to maitain combat skills in the general populcae right up until the 20th century. The US second amendment refered to militia for civic defence not personal use and the first 50 or so years of the US they tried to keep gun numbers down. Heck in 1794 the federal government had to issue guns to 2/3rds of the 13,000 formalised militia sent to quell a rebellion by 7,000 Pensylvania farmers because they didnt own their own firearms! The same happened in the war of 1812-1814, most of the militia didnt have personal weapons and were ineffective in their function. It was only in the 1970's that this myth of the heavily armed turn of the century US citizen emerged.

[SE9]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

What I find most shocking isn't the culture or the constitution or what people think, its that no one seems to have the answer or no one wants to take any action. Lets get a few things straight, its legal to own certain types of guns in the UK and theres nothing stopping me or many of you owning a shot gun or similar. I know people who own them but there are certain regulations. They have to be stored correctly and as an example the Police can turn up at any time, complete checks, then ask you and others certain questions. Answer them wrong and you could be arrested. In the UK we've had massacres and other examples of shootings. Following that action has been taken to reduce the risk and put greater control on them. Stronger rules have been put in place and certain types of weapons have been banned which has helped reduce crime and the risk. To say nothing should be done because 'its culture' or its a 'mind set' is completely mad.

Some times you have to do things people really don't like but they learn to live with it and people change. Smoking ban or fox hunting for example. I'm pretty sure while many Americans wouldn't agree with the banning or limiting of hand guns, if you slowly introduce measures to limit them over the space of 10-20 years that mind set will change.

Also anyone saying 'guns bans' were designed to completely stop gun crime is living on another planet but to say there is a massive problem is well off the mark. The British Police have armed response units for a reason.

Well put.

[manrush]

Originally Posted by Paddington

One of these shootings happens every few months, and then liberals blame conservatives and threaten to ban guns... Meanwhile, everyone forgets after a few weeks. I think people just need to accept that a few random acts of violence like this are going to happen occasionally in a big country. Not much you can do about it, except not live in Denver I guess.

Well, maybe if cons didn't always claim that evolution or the decline in Judeo-Christian Values (TM) caused these shootings, then we leftists wouldn't tell the truth.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

This US perception of Gun Culture however is a modern artifact, a century ago and all through the 'frontier culture' there was more guns in the UK than the US, starting with the government publically encouraging archery practise, the 1689 Declaration of Rights and numerous laws encouraging weapons training to maitain combat skills in the general populcae right up until the 20th century. The US second amendment refered to militia for civic defence not personal use and the first 50 or so years of the US they tried to keep gun numbers down. Heck in 1794 the federal government had to issue guns to 2/3rds of the 13,000 formalised militia sent to quell a rebellion by 7,000 Pensylvania farmers because they didnt own their own firearms! The same happened in the war of 1812-1814, most of the militia didnt have personal weapons and were ineffective in their function. It was only in the 1970's that this myth of the heavily armed turn of the century US citizen emerged.

That dog don't hunt.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by hugh

And isn't that the disconnect? There are large populated parts of America that are not the 'wild west' - in the central city or the shopping mall the virtues of roping a steer or taking out a rattler are a moot point. As for the quotation you mention frequently attributed to Admiral Yamamoto, that all seems a bit quaint now, even the hardware available to many Americans would be pretty useless against weapons an invading force might be likely to have.

Well Hugh, as a native born Californian, I neither call the City "Frisco" nor the land of my birth "Cali." You want to piss me off; send that one my direction. All that aside, as both a serving officer in the US Navy for 25 years, and a practicing military historian for the last nine, I'll match my knowledge of weaponry great and small with yours any time. If the weapons most Americans possess weren't up to the task, then why are we still fucking about in Afghanistan? Been there; done that partner.

[Nightjar]

Blow Hard.

[SE9]

The Paris premiere of Batman, which should have taken place just now, has been cancelled due to these events.

(Their premiere full two days after the London (aka European) premiere? And now cancelled! Poor guys.)

[bigchrisfgb]

Originally Posted by SE9

The Paris premiere of Batman, which should have taken place just now, has been cancelled due to these events.

(Their premiere full two days after the London (aka European) premiere? And now cancelled! Poor guys.)

I suspect the whole movie might be postponed until after the funerals for the victims.

[SE9]

They've been showing Batman in London (Leicester Square's Odeon) tonight, just with random bag searches implemented.

[eddyk]

daft