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Old July 24th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #1
Şölen
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"Historical building" means good building everytime?

Well, I don't think so.


Turkey discusses the case for a few months. In general restoration of İstanbul, they want to "destroy" some historical houses, and give them new houses.

Those "some historical buildings" are in around Sulukule, which is a historical Gypsie land. Today Gypsies and more.


Tarlabaşı, Balat, Sulukule, Kumkapı vs:























Normal looks from inside of the houses:






Many of them are not restorable Many of them are too tiny. Many of them have no bathrooms Many of them are used for fake&illegal factories Many of them are houses of terrorists of PKK, DHKP-C, etc (Kurdish movements) Many of them are thiefs, murderers, prostitues, terrorists, escorts, drugdealers, mafia servants or easily, criminals.

It always reminds me Hugo, what he says in the book The Hunchback of Notre-Dame for a gypsie neighborhood. In that place; crime is not crime anymore, blinds start to see, people without legs start to walk, thiefs are proud about what they stole that day...

I'm not saying everyone from there is mean, but there is a truth about there. I feel bad for Sulukule children, what future waits for them?

Fatih Pınar tells us Tarlabaşı truth better:

http://arsiv.ntvmsnbc.com/modules/in...taj/tarlabasi/


So we have a problem about Sulukule but Sulukule can be destroyed, or it makes them create a new Sulukule in somehwere else? Sulukule people must keep living there, keeping them all together in one place is better than "many little Sulukule"s? The government should "just restorate" the buildings like we do for centuries?


I think, government's solution will be great escape Sulukule culture will keep living.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #2
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The problem here is not architecture or "style" or even age of the buildings but their upkeep. If restored (theres no such thing as "not restorable") these would look fantastic. The question here is where do you put the people that live there? Often such schemes, while claiming to be forces for good, merely move the people and their problems somewhere else, thus not changing much at all.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #3
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**** off, those houses are big enough for one. If you have a family of 5 then go live somewhere else. Ortaköy, Cihangir etc is full of apartments like these, and people are happy living there. They can be renovated like how they did in Taksim and Cihangir. In fact, a lot of renovation work is going on in those neighbours lately, and the results are excellent.

And those "crime-ridden" neighbourhoods are among the most multicultural places in the Europe and world. Relocating those people would take away too much from Istanbul.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
The problem here is not architecture or "style" or even age of the buildings but their upkeep. If restored (theres no such thing as "not restorable") these would look fantastic. The question here is where do you put the people that live there? Often such schemes, while claiming to be forces for good, merely move the people and their problems somewhere else, thus not changing much at all.
I know there pretty well, trust me some houses lost their stairs, some houses has huge holes in 2nd floors etc. Many of them are seriously not restorable.

Here's the problem is, the government want to destroy them and some people say it is not true because the houses are historical. And if they destroy, the goverment probably won't give their new houses in the same place and some people say it won't end Sulukule tradition. The life in Sulukule is not good for anyone, especially for its own people.


Two things,

1. How can Sulukule culture get over, or it should get over?
2. The buildings are historical, so we have to keep them?
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cake On BBQ View Post
**** off, those houses are big enough for one. If you have a family of 5 then go live somewhere else. Ortaköy, Cihangir etc is full of apartments like these, and people are happy living there. They can be renovated like how they did in Taksim and Cihangir. In fact, a lot of renovation work is going on in those neighbours lately, and the results are excellent.

And those "crime-ridden" neighbourhoods are among the most multicultural places in the Europe and world. Relocating those people would take away too much from Istanbul.
Yeah, yeah. "Bize her yer Paris" but it is not Paris for everyone. Visit there this weekend. They live houses without bathrooms with 10 poeple. Mostly from Iraq, Southeastern Turkey, gypsies, Africans... Almost all came there escaping something in their hometown, they can't rent houses in Ortaköy.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #6
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It's a bastardized version of "bize heryer Mardin"

So just because those people can't rent better houses we should tear down their houses along with their dreams of a better future? We won't lose anything by giving them a better life and renovating those houses, but we will lose a lot by tearing down them.

And there are people from everywhere in the world in Tarlabaşı, Balat etc. Indians, Bangladeshis, Filipinos, Pakis etc and this is a big opportunity for Istanbul to become a real world city.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #7
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Ah God! You resist, you don't get what I say.

These kids won't have a nice future if they keep living there, or Sulukule keeps being same. If you think it is awesome, why don't you rent a house for yourself? It would rain into your bed and television, you would use your neighbor's bathroom, tinercis would ask money from you everyday.

Good luck.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #8
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So you think those people's conditions are caused by the houses they live in? NO. They won't suddenly get better if we destroy those buildings.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #9
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Uhm good score. Yeah, their problems are mostly about the place they live in. About the culture of that place. Houses are a part of that.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Şölen View Post
I know there pretty well, trust me some houses lost their stairs, some houses has huge holes in 2nd floors etc. Many of them are seriously not restorable.
You can put in new stairs and new floors.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #11
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I'm always in favor of preserving historic buildings, so long as they are worthy of being preserved.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #12
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Move them to a different neighbourhood designed specifically for them on the outskirts of the city but integrated with retail and public transit (with bigger apartments and whatnot). Then restore these houses, incorporate nice retail spaces, and sell at a profit that will help pay for the whole process.

The problem are not the houses, the problem is that the neighbourhood was taken over by people who cannot afford to take care of it. Let those who can move in, and move the current residents to a different area designed to require minimum maintenance.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 12:08 AM   #13
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Old doesn't mean it's worth saving. Some buildings are crap the day they go up.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Move them to a different neighbourhood designed specifically for them on the outskirts of the city but integrated with retail and public transit (with bigger apartments and whatnot). Then restore these houses, incorporate nice retail spaces, and sell at a profit that will help pay for the whole process.
Hasn't that been tried a thousand times over the last century, from Canada, to the US, Western Europe, HongKong, and everywhere else, and I can't think of one place where housing projects were a social success. From Paris to Toronto the worst neighborhoods in all cities are in and around housing projects. One of the recurring problems with neighborhoods like this is poor access to education and jobs. Give them that, and these neighborhoods will rise out of the ashes, like entire cities and nations have done in the past. Just look at china, and Honk Kong for instance.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 02:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Hasn't that been tried a thousand times over the last century, from Canada, to the US, Western Europe, HongKong, and everywhere else, and I can't think of one place where housing projects were a social success. From Paris to Toronto the worst neighborhoods in all cities are in and around housing projects. One of the recurring problems with neighborhoods like this is poor access to education and jobs. Give them that, and these neighborhoods will rise out of the ashes, like entire cities and nations have done in the past. Just look at china, and Honk Kong for instance.
At first, new world countries founded on very very very different things. Comparing Sulukule with both new world and China/Hong Kong is not true.

I believe that, a city with 13 million people will keep having problems but Sulukule-Balat case is just too much. Kids get horrible things when they were pretty young and I'm not sure they know what they do is wrong. What education? Schools might be even worser for them. They learn even even worser things there, fights, cigarettes, weed, knifes, girls ...

So, I'm sorry but the problem won't be over as long as Sulukule-Balat tradition overs. I think the government's excuse will be general restoration to solve there that I seriously support.




How much chance she can be a lawyer, a true cashier? Sure she has good shoes? Imagine her room(?) and family. She'll get marry with who? Can you guarantee me stealing is not just a game for her?


Kids need a future.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #16
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no!
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Old July 26th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
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They should destroys those old slums and replace them with decent houses worthy of living in. Just because those houses are old doesn't instantly mean they are valuable. They are too small, they have no bathroom, they are about to collapse. I even bet there are rats and cockroaches all over the place. These old houses are just worthless piles of bricks, nothing more.

Ged rid of it
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Old July 26th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #18
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Some of the restored houses in Galata which used to look like those are now sold for 15 million euros. So, yeah, they are actually valuable.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
The problem here is not architecture or "style" or even age of the buildings but their upkeep. If restored (theres no such thing as "not restorable") these would look fantastic. The question here is where do you put the people that live there? Often such schemes, while claiming to be forces for good, merely move the people and their problems somewhere else, thus not changing much at all.
Exactly. Don't blame the buildings for the economic situation.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #20
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Buildings live with humans, just like economy.
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