IRAQ | Foreign Affairs

[Ali - Iraq]

I explained my reasons for being against Iran and being suspicious of them. Most Iraqis dislike Iran and we are historical rivals since ancient times. I am not going to like them nor should I.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Why should I prefer Iranians - whom I have no relation to nor in terms of ancestry, origin, language, culture, religion - over fellow Arabs, in this case Jordanians, who have always been friendly towards Iraq and who we share cultural, tribal and historical ties with?

Thank god you aren't a politician. All right so tell me why are the kurd's cooperating with turkey? do they have any relation in terms of ancestry, origin,language, culture religion with turkey? No right? That's called politics. Dude it's so hard to explain facts to you, it's just like talking to a wall. ARAB COUNTRIES DON'T LIKE IRAQ GET IT? Why didn't they arrive to the Arab league?

I don't care what unelected head of states have done of wrongdoings in the past. It does not concern me since I am talking about mutual and healthy relations between the same people (Arabs) across borders made by imperial Europeans less than 90 years ago. Normal ordinary fellow Arabs.

Well if you aren't talk politics then I'm with you, however nowadays regimes represent their citizens, you must take that into consideration. If we are talking about how people should interact then all people should love each other despite language, political and cultural differences . So when you are saying that we should treat those from Jordan better than Iranians, you are actually being a racist. Yeah n1!

Again what can we use Iran for? They are a dictatorship whose rulers where the same people who actively supported the killings of Iraqis less than 25 years ago. What can we gain from an failed state that is heavily isolated? A state that is an historical enemy nevertheless and who actively helped destroy Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

Dude seen from a political perspective you cannot just ''hate'' Iran. Even though they don't benefit us, we have to have strong ties with all countries, and currently the only countries who embrace this idea is Iran, probably syria, lebanon, America, Japan and so on. Yeah exactly Iran has dictatorship though Saudi Arabia and rest of the Arab countries do not, are you blind? How did they help destroying Iraq after 2003, please give me some examples.

Oh, that was because Saddam made a huge and completely unnecessary mistake by invading Kuwait. That's where it all started. KSA, Kuwait, Qatar and others gave Iraq millions of dollars when we fought against Iran. It's not like they have an obligation towards us.

They don't have an obligation to us, but when they let the USA using their lands to attack Iraq it's ok? What kind of sense is this?

None of those states you mentioned were actively sending terrorists. Those terrorists are themselves against the governemnts in KSA, Qatar and Kuwait because they deem them traitors for being allies with USA and the West and because they deem their rule unislamic! Those same terrorists are persecuted in KSA, Kuwait, Qatar etc.

Ok so why do we not see explosions in Arab countries in huge scale like in Iraq?

I think Iraq can do without Iranian interference on all levels. I am not against an truly healthy relation but I would prefer other allies. Simple as that.

Other allies like USA, France, Germany, Russia ? Yeah why not. Now i tell you again remember Iran is your neighbor, it's not located in Europe so we have to be careful...

Some prefer complete foreigners and longtime enemies (Iranians) and others prefer fellow Arabs. I happen to belong in the last "sector".

Good for you. I prefer a country which respects Iraq and which cooperate with Iraq.

[Al-Hashimi]

Well it's not exactly an surprise that you support Iran is it? Many Iraqi Shi'ah Arab exiles in the West seem to do that but the case is "strangely enough" very different inside Iraq itself where most Iraqi Shi'ah Arab dislike Iran as much as the Iraqi Sunni Arabs.

Must what you say is not truth at all and worse things can be said about Ajam which you don't mention with a word. Strange.

So, Iraq shares geography, history, religion and culture with Turkey as well. That does mean that it is comparable to what Iraq, as an Arab country (80 percent of the population), shares with fellow Arabs.

It cannot be compared.

Again answer me why Iraq, as an ancient enemy of Iran, should have such damaging ties as right now with Iran? Do you realize that the same leaders you are sympathic towards were the same people who actively promoted hatred and killings of Iraqis less than 25 years ago? Many, many, many more Iraqis died at the hands of Iranians than a few suicide bombers from outside of Iraq.

So yet again that is not even comparable.

I say to hell with Ajam and I will oppose every damaging influence from them and be against their infiltration and growing influence of Iraqi society. I rather work for fellow Arab unity than unity with historical enemies and strangers.

Let Iran suffer the same war we did and conflicts and then we can infiltrate their society and make so-called cooperation with them. Let's see how they will react. Probably also install pro-Iraqi terrorists/puppets in their political enviroment, LOL.

[Ali - Iraq]

Originally Posted by alshawi1234

Al-hashimi, you're hate for anything related to Iran is unbearable. Iran is our neighbor, we cannot pretend it doesn't exist. Iran shares many things with Iraq. History, Religion, culture, geography...

I don't know why you insist on bad relations with Iran. Iran does have many negatives, but at least they see the current elected Iraqi government as a legitimate government that represents the country. Unlike KSA and Qatar whom refuse to even recognize the Iraqi government.

Now if other Arab countries don't like iran, that doesn't mean we should join them in their hostility against Iran.
The Arab countries have already caused Iraq enough atrocities by pushing the Iraqis against the Iranian and supporting hatred and war between the two counties. Let the Arabs wage their own war against Iran and keep us away from their problems.
Truth is the Arab rulers are cowards, they always try to get others to do their job. They got the Iraqis to fight against Iran after the revolution. They got mama American to free Kuwait and occupied Saudi territory.

The problems we have got from our Arab neighbors are much worse than what we got from the Iranians. They Arabs supported Iran-Iraq war, they provided loans to Iraq to keep the war going at high interest rates, they refuse to drop the debts, the supported the first gulf war, years of sanctions, they allowed their territory to be used for attacking iraq in 2003, they supported terrorism from 2003- now, many Arabs openly show their hate for iraq and Iraqis, they pay money to hamper iraq's development (politically and economically), they openly refuse arming Iraq with heavy weapons... The list goes on.

If I MUST make a chose. Than I prefer Iran over most Arab counties any time.

Exactly. However if the Arab countries embrace the idea of cooperating with Iraq then why not? Just cooperate with all parts. We shouldn't have any enemies, because enemies means war and we have learned from history, that war isn't good. Alhamdulillah some people with sense have realized it.

[Ali - Iraq]

Originally Posted by Al-Hashimi

Well it's not exactly an surprise that you support Iran is it? Many Iraqi Shi'ah Arab exiles in the West seem to do that but the case is "strangely enough" very different inside Iraq itself where most Iraqi Shi'ah Arab dislike Iran as much as the Iraqi Sunni Arabs.

Must what you say is not truth at all and worse things can be said about Ajam which you don't mention with a word. Strange.

So, Iraq shares geography, history, religion and culture with Turkey as well. That does mean that it is comparable to what Iraq, as an Arab country (80 percent of the population), shares with fellow Arabs.

It cannot be compared.

Again answer me why Iraq, as an ancient enemy of Iran, should have such damaging ties as right now with Iran? Do you realize that the same leaders you are sympathic towards were the same people who actively promoted hatred and killings of Iraqis less than 25 years ago? Many, many, many more Iraqis died at the hands of Iranians than a few suicide bombers from outside of Iraq.

So yet again that is not even comparable.

I say to hell with Ajam and I will oppose every damaging influence from them and be against their infiltration and growing influence of Iraqi society. I rather work for fellow Arab unity than unity with historical enemies and strangers.

Let Iran suffer the same war we did and conflicts and then we can infiltrate their society and make so-called cooperation with them. Let's see how they will react. Probably also install pro-Iraqi terrorists/puppets in their political enviroment, LOL.

You really don't understand do you? Seriously you are very childish. For god sake understand, that we prefer to cooperate with a state which respect, acknowledge and doesn't harm us. Give me some proves of that Iran doesn't do the above mentioned things? Though i can give you a proof of the fact, that Arab countries don't want the current regime, and doesn't support Iraq at all. Do you remember who attended in the Arab league held in Iraq? Yes you do and none of them were prominent from Arab countries, why? .... for god sake you are so delusional.

[Al-Hashimi]

Who cares about an useless Arab League Summit which was held in a war-torn country where security levels were suspicious? The Arab League has always been a huge failure no matter where it was held. When have they ever achieved anything?

We are talking about the relations between fellow Arabs - ordinary people. Not what some unelected and corrupt head of states do. Don't you understand this?

Was Saddam an representative of Iraq? You said that the leaders in KSA, Kuwait and Qatar etc. reflected the wishes of their population. That is clearly nonsense.

Then what about Ajam?

Why should I as an Iraqi Arab (80 percent of all Iraqis are Arabs in case somebody missed it) have better ties with complete foreigners and historical enemies (Iranians) rather than fellow Arabs?

Where you not the guy who was in favour of a united Arab world and critical of Iraqis, Jordanians, Syrians etc. defending borders that were made up on paper by European imperialists 90 years ago?

Also, I am not against healthy relations with any country. Even USA and Israel! As long as Iraq can benefit from it.

Right now - in the relations of Iraq and Ajam the latter has the upper hand on all fields. It's sad that you do not realize that. They don't care about Iraq. They are just an failed state and desperate to have nearby allies. Their false promises, propaganda and so-called brotherhood is all cheap talk for the stupid masses.

Some are unfortunately such traitors that they are puppets of Iran in our political enviroment and working in the interest of that failed state and not Iraq.

You also talk like the only Arab country is KSA. LOL, there are over 20 other Arab countries. KSA have ties with Iraq and they are improving day by day. Iraqi students are able to study at universities in KSA for free with the help of the Islamic Development Bank. KSA have appointed an ambassador to Iraq earlier this year. The Saudi king has a bad relationship with Al-Maliki (apparently) and this has affected the ties since KSA is an absolute monarchy where the rulling family decides everything and the ordinary Saudi has little to say. Just like under Saddam in Iraq.

Despite all this MILLIONS of Iraqis share cultural, historical, ancestral and most importantly tribal relations with fellow Arabs across the border in KSA. The biggest tribe in Iraq - the Shammar tribe - have millions of members in both Iraq and KSA. People are aware of all this and they have brotherly ties. Just like fellow Iraqis and Syrians in this time of civil war in Syria.

You fail to realize that the borders we consider as holy today were made up by coincidence by foreign powers. That's why you have so much instability in the Middle East and different ethnic groups fighting about the same piece of land. Borders might change but not the historical, cultural and ancestral ties among people.

The Emir of Kuwait was in Baghdad despite all what Iraqis did in Kuwait less than 20 years ago.... (or should I rather say Saddam and his supporters because it would be stupid to label all Iraqis as guilty because of actions made by an unelected ruler - wow that sounds remarkably similiar to the situation in KSA, Kuwait and Qatar).

But again you talk about the relations of unelected head of states and not ordinary people. The first part constitutes about 0,0001 of the total population of those countries and the other part all the remaining percentage.

Was it also not you who told us that you have more in common with a Saudi Wahhabi than an Iranian?

[sarbaze tabarestan]

One question?
What is ajami?I know arabs say it about iranians,but who do they exactly call?Just persian shia?or Iranian shia Kurds,shia Azeris?
What about sunni persians?And Sunni Iranian Balutchis?the sunni Tukomens?
The lors?The Arab shia iranians?are the ajami Too?

Are sunni afghanis ajamis too-or sunni tadjiks?cause they speak persian.
Who are these ajamis?

[Ali - Iraq]

Who cares about an useless Arab League Summit which was held in a war-thorn country where security levels were suspicious?

Obviously some of the Iraqi people and the politicians in Iraq? Yeah those who attended got bombed.

We are talking about the relations between fellow Arabs - ordinary people. Not what some unelected and corrupt head of states do. Don't you understand this?

The relationship between ''fellow'' Arabs are good? This article is called ''Iraqi foregin affairs'' not '' Iraqi fellow Arabs affair'' this topic is about politics my friend, you cannot compare politics with nongovernmental ideas or whatever it's called.

Was Saddam an representative of Iraq? You said that the leaders in KSA, Kuwait and Qatar etc. reflected the wishes of their population. That is clearly nonsense.

When someone said Saddam then it meant Iraq. Yes Saddam represented the Iraqi people, though not their ideas or wishes.

Why should I as an Iraqi Arab (80 percent of all Iraqis are Arabs in case somebody missed it) have better ties with complete foreigners and historical enemies (Iranians) rather than fellow Arabs?

You shouldn't. You also shouldn't be a racist and instead cooperate with all countries ( ethnicity) and those who wants to.

Where you not the guy who was in favour of a united Arab world and critical of Iraqis, Jordanians, Syrians etc. defending borders that were made up on paper by European imperialists 90 years ago?

Yes I'm a united Arab world is much stronger but that's a dream, i though can distinguish between a dream and reality. How can we merge when we don't bring anything good to each other? Every Arab country care about itself, otherwise Arab countries would have helped Iraq when the Americans invaded us, would liberate Palestine which is an Arab country. Also nowadays Arabs are divided by Shia and Sunnis. Shias in Iraq ( politicians) wants to create a good relationship with Sunni ( politicans in Saudi Arabia) however it didn't succeed because Sunnis hate Shia and opposite.

Also, I am not against healthy relations with any country. Even the USA and Israel! As long as Iraq can benefit from it.

Ok so why aren't we benefiting from having a good relationship with Iran?

Right now - in the relations of Iraq and Ajam the latter has the upper hand on all fields. It's sad that you do not realize that. They don't care about Iraq. They are just an failed state and desperate to have nearby allies. Their false promises, propaganda and so-called brotherhood is all cheap talk for the stupid masses.

I don't oppose that Iran don't care about Iraq. However they are the only who are willing to cooperate, so who do you choose? ........

Some are unfortunately such traitors that they are puppets of Iran in our political enviroment and working in the interest of that failed state and not Iraq.

True.

You also talk like the only Arab country is KSA. LOL, there are over 20 other Arab countries. KSA have ties with Iraq and they are improving day by day. Iraqi students are able to study at universities in KSA for free with the help of the Islamic Development Bank. KSA have an ambassador in Iraq.

Oh i see sorry for not mentioning almost all Arab states. Thought Saudi Arabia was enough.

The Emir of Kuwait was in Baghdad despite all what Iraqis did in Kuwait less than 20 years ago.... (or should I rather say Saddam and his supporters because it would be stupid to label all Iraqis as guilty because of actions made by an unelected ruler - wow that sounds remarkably similiar to the situation in KSA, Kuwait and Qatar).

Yeah and despite all the money we were paying them and despite all pressure which they put on Iraq and despite the Kuwait actually was a part of Basra before.

But again you talk about the relations of unelected head of states and not ordinary people. The first part constitutes about 0,0001 of the total population of those countries and the other part all the remaining percentage.

Who are unelected?

Was it also not you who told us that you have more in common with a Saudi Wahhabi than an Iranian?

No?

[Al-Hashimi]

If you two could give me just one example of an positive outcome of the Iraqi-Iranian cooperation (or should I say Iranian infiltration) since the 2003 invasion then please name that thing.

I am also curious to hear how we can trust an regime who is ruled by the same people who actively killed and supported the mass killings of Iraqis less than 25 years ago?

It's not more than 2-3 days that we had an Iranian here who pointed that out. How do you think Iranians would react if the regime in Iran were toppled and replaced by a new one which saw Saddam as their main ally (had he still been in power in Iraq)? Or posting huge posters of him in Iranian cities?

The most astonishing thing is why the Iraqi government is so eager to have such close ties with an completely isolated and failed state that is an dictatorship and which has proven to have little to no benefit for Iraq.

If it was by any means andpositive and mutual healthy cooperation then your arguments would have a bigger weight.

Which political and military gains have Iraq achieved from Iran since the 2003 invasion? Why would a more neutral position towards Iran be a bad thing? Are you afraid of Iran attacking Iraq?

And when have fellow Arabian countries attacked Iraq? Never last time I checked. But we had plenty of wars with Iranians that date back to ancient times. In fact the most bloody war to date in Middle Eastern history was against them in the 1980's and the same regime which we have now befriended............................

[sarbaze tabarestan]

Dude u should forgive as we forgived.Man-this was a useless war.Iraqis had killed iranians.iranians killed iraqis.Saddam was as evil as Khomeini.Lets build a new middle east.Were has this wars brought us.Imagine a middle east were people have fun and go clubbing instead this bullshit ajami-arab-kurd-turkish thing.shia-jew-bahai-sunni-alevi who cares.My best friends are sunni arabs.I am shia persian.u should relax a bit

[Ali - Iraq]

If you two could give me just one example of an positive outcome of the Iraqi-Iranian cooperation (or should I say Iranian infiltration) since the 2003 invasion then please name that thing.

Iran, Iraq sign defense cooperation deal
http://tehrantimes.com/politics/1021...operation-deal


Exports of Iranian gas to Iraq may start next summer
http://www.tehrantimes.com/economy-a...rt-next-summer

two positive outcome, happy?

I am also curious to hear how we can trust an regime who is ruled by the same people who actively killed and supported the mass killings of Iraqis less than 25 years ago?

What do you mean?

It's not more than 2-3 days that we had an Iranian here who pointed that out. How do you think Iranians would react if the regime in Iran were toppled and replaced by a new one which saw Saddam as their main ally (had he still been in power in Iraq)? Or posting huge posters of him in Iranian cities?

Is that a question? I'm confused :S

The most astonishing thing is why the Iraqi government is so eager to have such close ties with an completely isolated and failed state that is an dictatorship and which has proven to have little to no benefit for Iraq.

I think that the Shia politicians get financial help from Iran to be honest. I have also mentioned the beneficial of this relation ship earlier.

Which political and military gains have Iraq achieved from Iran since the 2003 invasion? Why would a more neutral relation towards Iran be a bad thing? Are you afraid of Iran attacking Iraq?

Well they haven't financed terrorists in Iraq, that's a good step IMO. Iraq is neutral when speaking of cooperating with Iran. I just think that if Iraq was hatred against Iran, Iran would probably squeeze us economically and politically.

And when have fellow Arabs attacked Iraqi Arabs? Never last time I checked. But we had plenty of wars with Iranians. In fact the most bloody war to date in Middle Eastern hisotry was against them in the 1980's and the same regime which we now have befriended............................

Most Arabs countries finance terrorists in Iraq. When Iraq went to war against Iran, Iraq began the war not opposite.

[sarbaze tabarestan]

Dude we are not the people u think.
u say ajamis.We have sunni,shia,arabic,turkic,jewish,persian,kurdish,religiouse,atheists.
u see them all negativ and ajamis.
all of them are human beeings-and god loves them as equal as he loves a arab.

i hope these crazy mullahs leaving us as fast as possible and tehran will be the party city Nr 1 in the world.
Cause iranians know how to party
Inaj Tehraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5faX5xCUTY

[Ali - Iraq]

Nevertheless i have to agree, that the relationship between Iraq and Iran have become too strong currently and it shouldn't. Though i don't see alternatives.

[Al-Hashimi]

But we all knew long before it was even announced that Baghdad would again held the Arab League Summnit that it would be a failure - JUST like every other summit.

Since when, in recent memory at least, have we as Arabs had good leaders that represented us in a good and dignified way?

When an corrupt Iraqi minister is throwing money into his pockets rather then the people is he then a representative of Iraqis as a whole? Or when the ministry of education are giving a laughable sum of money to education when that is extremely crucial? No, they prefer making pointless new stadiums (often constructed in a horrible way) to give them an empty legacy.... No way is he a representative of me or any other Iraqi.

Because we need to look at the bigger picture. Have you not realized what has happened in our Arab world in the last 2,5 years? The days of absolute rulers and dictatorships is coming to an end. We see an more united Arab world for each day that goes - at least among ordinary people.

Yes, not their ideas or wishes. That's the whole point. Since when are dictators ever representatives of their people? Can you just give me one example of such an dictator?

Well, I like that you are in favour of a united Arab world. That should be the aim of every Arab. Easier said than done because instead of a few countries we are now many and will probably only grow in number. This will naturally only make things more difficult. Like in a big family sometimes, LOL.

Prefering your own people and fellow Arabs over foreigners (be it Iranians, Turks or Americans) is not racism or a crime. At least I am honest about it. Is it a crime that i prefer my own rather than a stranger?

I have always mentioned that i have nothing against mutual and healthy relations with any given country as long as it favours Iraq. But the relation with Iran is not healthy in my eyes and I have given the reasons for that many times.

Maybe the situation would look different had a different regime ruled Iran? Who knows? The relations during the Shah were not bad to my knowledge.

How can one Arab country be enough? What about Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Mauritania, North Sudan?

Come on? Do you blame Kuwait for wanting compensation for the huge economic losses they suffered at the hands of Saddam AFTER spending millions of dollars on Iraq when supporting us against Iran in the 1980's?

So what if Kuwait was part of the Basra Vilayet? How is that even an argument when Iraq did not even exist when the Basra Vilayet existed? There was no Iraq at all. The borders of current day Iraq are completely new. Only 92 years old...

Also the Basra Vilayet was part of the Ottoman Empire. Those borders were made up by them.

Instead of making a claim on Kuwait - this could be used as an prime example of the close ties between Arab natioans and that they once (less than 100 years ago) were considered as one people and not Iraqi or Kuwait.

Who is unelected? Well basically all rulers in our region of the Arab world. For a start, KSA, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait and Oman...

I am pretty sure that someone said it here.

[alshawi1234]

ajam basically means non-arab (real definition) the actual term is used as a code name for iranians. (ajam, rawafidh, safawi, majoos are some code names used for Iranians as well as Iraqi Shias)

al-hashimi. Iraq WANTS good relations with everyone. They have called on all the neighboring countries to start new relations. And Iran was one of the few countries who accepted that call. None of the other countries you mentioned did. Other than Jordan (only because they needed oil)

What more do you want the Iraqi government to do? I mean the only way to make the arab countries Happy is to have a Sunni dictator who desists Iran in power.

il say this much. If the problem between the Arabs and Iran is political, I could care less. But truth is its a sectarian conflict. And make no doubt that even the Iraqis who desist Iran will side with Iran if they are ever forced to choose sides.

[Ali - Iraq]

But we all knew long before it was even announced that Baghdad would again held the Arab League Summnit that it would be a failure - JUST like every other summit.

But when the country held an Arab summit in Saddam Husseins time it was a success?

Since when, in recent memory at least, have we as Arabs had good leaders that represented us in a good and dignified way?

We don't. But until further Iraq is a democratic country where the president was elected.

When an corrupt Iraqi minister is throwing money into his pockets rather then the people is he then a representative of Iraqis as a whole? Or when the ministry of education are giving a laughable sum of money to education when that is extremely crucial? No, they prefer making pointless new stadiums (often constructed in a horrible way) to give them an empty legacy.... No way is he a representative of me or any other Iraqi.

Obviously I'm not explaining good enough, otherwise you compare an apple with a dog.

Because we need to look at the bigger picture. Have you not realized what has happened in our Arab world in the last 2,5 years? The days of absolute rulers and dictatorships is coming to an end. We see an more united Arab world for each day that goes - at least among ordinary people.

Yes sunni arab countries do cooperate sufficiently. Though it's another story when talking about Iraq which consist of 60% Shia.

Yes, not their ideas or wishes. That's the whole point. Since when are dictators ever representatives of their people? Can you just give me one example of such an dictator?

Dude i told you that some politicians and especially dictators don't represent the ideas and wishes of the people, though they represent the country. When you say Obama then you associate it with America. That's what i meant.

Prefering your own people and fellow Arabs over foreigners (be it Iranians, Turks or Americans) is not racism or a crime. At least I am honest about it. Is it a crime that i prefer my own rather than a stranger?

oh my god... Dude what have the Iranian politicians done to the Iraqi people? They don't finance terrorists, they don't kill Iraqis.

I have always mentioned that i have nothing against mutual and healthy relations with any given country as long as it favours Iraq. But the relation with Iran is not healthy in my eyes and I have given the reasons for that many times.

Then tell me the reasons.. omg..

Come on? Do you blame Kuwait for wanting compensation for the huge economic losses they suffered at the hands of Saddam AFTER spending millions of dollars on Iraq when supporting us against Iran in the 1980's?

I'm just saying that they could have been waiting for a proper time to ask for their compensation from Iraq. Japan loaned Iraq 1 billion dollars while other Arab countries haven't even talked about loaning Iraq. Dude listen if Arabs really liked Iraq and wanted the best for Iraq they would have cooperated with Iraq economically, politically and so on which they aren't.

So what if Kuwait was part of the Basra Vilayet? How is that even an argument when Iraq did not even exist when the Basra Vilayet existed? There was no Iraq at all. The borders of current day Iraq are completely new. Only 92 years old...

Also the Basra Vilayet was part of the Ottoman Empire. Those borders were made up by them.

You got a point.

Al-Hashimi please quote next time. It's really hard to understand what you are referring to.

[Al-Hashimi]

Originally Posted by Ali - Iraq

Iran, Iraq sign defense cooperation deal
http://tehrantimes.com/politics/1021...operation-deal


Exports of Iranian gas to Iraq may start next summer
http://www.tehrantimes.com/economy-a...rt-next-summer

two positive outcome, happy?


What do you mean?


Is that a question? I'm confused :S


I think that the Shia politicians get financial help from Iran to be honest. I have also mentioned the beneficial of this relation ship earlier.


Well they haven't financed terrorists in Iraq, that's a good step IMO. Iraq is neutral when speaking of cooperating with Iran. I just think that if Iraq was hatred against Iran, Iran would probably squeeze us economically and politically.


Most Arabs countries finance terrorists in Iraq. When Iraq went to war against Iran, Iraq began the war not opposite.

Ok, how can it be a good thing to cooperate with an failed state that is completely isolated by the world and considered as a brutal and fanatic dictatorship? At least KSA, Qatar and Kuwait are modern countries, in fact the by FAR most rich countries in our region and one of the richest in the world (actually Qatar is the richest based on per capita income) who are allies with leading world powers that are democracies.

Oh, how is it a good thing that Iraq, despite having gas themselves and plenty of natural ressources, is importing gas from Iran? Instead of exporting it ourselves? It was highly criticized by other members here when it was posted. So i am not the only one.

And let us not forget, apropos talking about which lands "belong" to Iraq or not - that the Khuzestan province in Iran have historically belonged to civilizations/empires that were native and based in the territory of modern-day Iraq. To this very day 50 percent of the population of Khuzestan are Arabs and speak Iraqi Arabic.... And that province is where most of the oil and gas in Iran comes from.

What do you thing habibi? The Iraqi government have now suddenly befriended the same regime who less than 25 years ago actively killed and supported the killings of thousands of Iraqis. I am talking about the Mullah's in Teheran.

Yes, that is a question. We actually have a large portion of the Iraqi population who would rather serve Iran because of solely religious reasons than Iraq itself. That's why you can find huge posters (as posted by that Iranian in the Iraqi section of the forum) of Khomeini and other fanatics who have the blood of thousands of dead Iraqis on their hands....

I hopefully don't need to mention those large parts of the "Iraqi" political enviroment who do such things. That is an huge problem that the government is doing nothing about at all. All this due to the Iraqi-Iranian relationship you praise.

Are you joking? Just search Iranian influence in Iraq on Google and PLENTY of articles will show up of Iranian involvement in financing terrorists groups in Iraq and their contribution of dividing Iraq and Iraqis.

Who do you think is financing those traitors I am talking about in our political system if not Iran? Al-Hakim and Al-Sadr etc.

They are already doing that. Open your eyes habibi. Visit Iraq! All we get from Iran is cheap crappy goods that are destroying the Iraqi private sector and making life a hell for Iraqi farmers, investors etc. All imports from Iran....If that is healthy cooperation then I better be without it!

Having good ties does not equal the current ties. I am all for normal ties with Iran. In normal meaning they don't interfere in INTERNAL Iraqi matters. And beneficial not to mention that.

There are different theories on who started first.

"Arguments that Iran, not Iraq, was the aggressor"

John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt dispute the conventional assessment that Iraq was the aggressor in the war. In an essay titled "Can Saddam Be Contained?", they argued that Iran took the first military action through its repeated cross-border attacks on Iraq. They went on to say that Iraq's response "was essentially defensive", noting:

Given their history of animosity, it is not surprising that Saddam welcomed the Shah’s ouster in 1979. Indeed, Iraq went to considerable lengths to foster good relations with Iran’s revolutionary leadership. Saddam did not try to exploit the turmoil in Iran to gain strategic advantage over his neighbor and made no attempt to reverse his earlier concessions, even though Iran did not fully comply with the terms of the 1975 agreement. The Ayatollah Khomeini, on the other hand, was determined to extend his revolution across the Islamic world, starting with Iraq. By late 1979, Tehran was pushing hard to get the Kurdish and Shi’ite populations in Iraq to revolt and topple Saddam, and Iranian operatives were actively trying to assassinate senior Iraqi officials. Border clashes became increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran’s instigation. Facing a grave threat to his regime but aware that Iran’s military readiness had been temporarily disrupted by the revolution, Saddam launched a limited war against his bitter foe on September 22, 1980.[160]

Walt and Mearsheimer also quote military analyst Efraim Karsh as saying that "the war began because the weaker state, Iraq, attempted to resist the hegemonic aspirations of its stronger neighbor, Iran, to reshape the regional status quo according to its own image". Foreign policy analyst Robin Wright notes that Iran responded to Hussein's unilateral concessions and withdrawal in 1982 by invading Iraq and declaring "There are no conditions. The only condition is that the regime in Baghdad must fall and must be replaced by an Islamic Republic."[161] Conservative commentator Jude Wanniski, in a piece pointing out that Iran launched the first cross-border attacks (although Iraq was the first to declare war and invade), claimed: "As for who started the war, you need only ask yourself why Saddam would take on a country three times the size of Iraq, 60 million to 20 million, without ever showing the slightest intent of carrying the fight to Tehran. When the escalating skirmishing grew into open war, the Iraqi army moved several dozen miles into Iran and stopped, seemingly ready to come to terms."[162] The New York Times reported: "Some experts say the new Iranian leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, agitated for a religious war to incite Iraq's large Shi'ite population to rebellion."[163] MAJ Dexter Teo Kian Hwee, in the Journal of the Singapore Armed Forces, pointed out that "most countries" agreed at the time to "label Iran as the aggressor" and that no one accused Iraq of responsibility for the war until after it invaded Kuwait. Hwee also wrote that "Iraq had declared truces and ceasefires a few times, and on occasions unilaterally, hoping to end the war early...Finally, in early 1988, Iraq sought to end the war through an escalation of the war effort. To achieve this, the Iraqis used chemical weapons on Halabja, recaptured the Fao peninsula and drove the Iranian forces out of Majnoon islands. Suddenly, the Iraqis seemed 'alive and rejuvenated' to continue the war effort, while the Iranians seemed to have lost their initial zest. Yet, when Iran accepted UN Resolution 598 in July 1988, Iraq readily agreed to the ceasefire and abided to the resolution accordingly".[164]

[Ali - Iraq]

il say this much. If the problem between the Arabs and Iran is political, I could care less. But truth is its a sectarian conflict. And make no doubt that even the Iraqis who desist Iran will side with Iran if they are ever forced to choose sides.

I don't agree on this. I wouldn't help anyone if i wouldn't get damaged.

[Al-Hashimi]

I am actually ashamed that we have an government who is eager to befriend an fanatical dictatorship that is ruling an failed and isolated state. The dictators of that same country (Iran) are the same people who have the blood of thousands of Iraqis on their hands (Sunni, Shi'ah etc.).

This alone should give an complete other perspective on the relation. For me this is something that cannot be understood. Maybe if Iraq was receiveing millions of dollars each week due to the cooperation with Iran. MAYBE. But that is FAR from the reality.

My stance on all this is not that cooperation with Iran is necessarily a bad thing. No it's a bad thing under the CURRENT circumstances. Maybe that will change when Iran will get a new regime that is less secterian and less imperialistic. Or when Iraq will get more competent politicians who serve Iraq first and not secterianism and corruption.

Alshawi: You are either deluded or just joking when you wrote that comment Ali - Iraq quoted. At least I hope so.

But you will get a hint. The current civil war in Syria and the completely different opinions of it among Iraqi Sunni Arabs and Iraqi Shi'ah Arabs should tell you everything.

I am not even going to mention the obvious thing - namely them being fellow Arabs whom we share cultural, historical, linguistic, tribal and ancestral ties with etc. We have no closer people than other Arabs. Just like other Arabs, be it Jordanians or Syrians have no closer people than other fellow Arabs. Whether we like it or not. And I am here talking about ordinary people. That has always been the case and will always be the case. It's a natural thing that you prefer your own rather than strangers.

[Ali - Iraq]

Ok, how can it be a good thing to cooperate with an failed state that is completely isolated by the world and considered as a brutal and fanatic dictatorship? At least KSA, Qatar and Kuwait are modern countries, in fact the by FAR most rich countries in our region and one of the richest in the world (actually Qatar is the richest based on per capita income) who are allies with leading world powers that are democracies.

I won't write the same answer twice.

Oh, how is it a good thing that Iraq, despite having gas themselves and plenty of natural ressources, is importing gas from Iran? Instead of exporting it ourselves? It was highly criticized by other members here when it was posted. So i am not the only one.

Ask Sheytan he would probably find it reasonable. I'm sure of that.

The Iraqi government have now suddenly befriended the same regime who less than 25 years ago actively killed and supported the killings of thousands of Iraqis. I am talking about the Mullah's in Teheran.

IMO it's a really bad comparison. If we use your logic then Iran has been friend with a country which gassed it's people and started a war with it. Exactly Iraq....-.- non sense..

We actually have a large portion of the Iraqi population who would rather serve Iran because of solely religious reasons than Iraq itself. That's why you can find huge posters (as posted by that Iranian in the Iraqi section of the forum) of Khomeini and other fanatics who have the blood of thousands of dead Iraqis on their hands.

I don't regret that nor i encourage it.

That is an huge problem that the government is doing nothing about at all. All this due to the Iraqi-Iranian relationship you praise.

Still I'm not praising I'm just saying that i want my country to cooperate with all countries.

Are you joking? Just search Iranian influence in Iraq on Google and PLENTY of articles will show up of Iranian involvement in financing terrorists groups in Iraq and their contribution of dividing Iraq and Iraqis.

Well Iran has a huge influence in Iraq for sure, but that's because Iraq is weak and this how politics work. However they don't send terrorists to Iraq. Prove me wrong...

Who do you think is financing those traitors I am talking about in our political system if not Iran? Al-Hakim and Al-Sadr etc.

Well what have Al-hakim and Al-sadr done bad to Iraq? :S

Visit Iraq! All we get from Iran is cheap crappy goods that are destroying the Iraqi private sector and making life a hell for Iraqi farmers, investors etc. All imports from Iran....If that is healthy cooperation then I better be without it!

We are also importing products and materials from China, that doesn't mean it destroys our private sector our farmers or our lives. For god sake Hashimi wtf is this? xD

There are different theories on who started first.

.................

[alshawi1234]

Each person is entitled to his own bias opinion. But at the end of the day it's iraq's interest what matters most, not the Arab countries, not Iran.