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Old February 25th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #41
SkyGurt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
Is it based on some German design or a totally indigenously Ukrainian design?

No, it is our own. Ukraine has it's own great advanced designers.
The same for architecture, check this out, it's our very own style
http://bart.livejournal.com/1875603.html

Learn more about Ukraine on this forum:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1499705

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1337311

Last edited by SkyGurt; February 25th, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post


I think it is made with the help of the Koreans (Hyundai), but I don't know if it is based on anything.


edit:

Looked it up on Wikipedia, and I think this bit refers to these trains:

"Recent developments
In November 2010, UZ agreed to buy 10 high-speed interurban trainsets from Hyundai Rotem, with the prospect of a much larger order or joint venture for local production.[6] The first two trains would be delivered in February 2012, two other in April and other two in May, when they will start operating."


That would mean they are Korean-made.
Nope. We purchased 10 Hyundai train sets just before EURO 2012 kicked off (we needed urgently nice trains to transfer football fans between EURO 2012 host cities), and, yes, our gov. thought to ask Hyundai to make these trains in Ukraine, but, as a result, these trains were not good as we though, especially during winter (read this: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...-1-128201.html). After EURO 2012 private Ukrainian train building company KVSZ come with HSR solution. They just finished testing stage and will be rolled out to production soon. Our Gov. said they will buy only KVSZ trains http://www.kyivpost.com/content/busi...ai-311633.html

Ukraine will buy home produced trains, and will never buy Hyundai trains again, Ukrainian Premier Mykola Azarov has said

We don't need Hyundai any one else to build trains for us. You probably need to know that many Korean engineers where educated in Soviet Union. In the past Ukraine had 40%+ Soviet Union research projects, and we still have universities and advanced technologists, we still produce rockets and airplanes.

Last edited by SkyGurt; February 25th, 2013 at 03:44 PM.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #43
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Ok, seems wiki needs an update :P
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Old February 25th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Ok, seems wiki needs an update :P
What you may find about Ukraine in English Internet may not reflect the correct view. Ukraine lives in non-English world: say, we have our own textbooks in universities and rarely translate foreign textbooks (only famous one).
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Old February 25th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGurt View Post
Nope. We purchased 10 Hyundai train sets just before EURO 2012 kicked off (we needed urgently nice trains to transfer football fans between EURO 2012 host cities), and, yes, our gov. thought to ask Hyundai to make these trains in Ukraine, but, as a result, these trains were not good as we though, especially during winter (read this: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...-1-128201.html). After EURO 2012 private Ukrainian train building company KVSZ come with HSR solution. They just finished testing stage and will be rolled out to production soon. Our Gov. said they will buy only KVSZ trains http://www.kyivpost.com/content/busi...ai-311633.html

Ukraine will buy home produced trains, and will never buy Hyundai trains again, Ukrainian Premier Mykola Azarov has said

We don't need Hyundai any one else to build trains for us. You probably need to know that many Korean engineers where educated in Soviet Union. In the past Ukraine had 40%+ Soviet Union research projects, and we still have universities and advanced technologists, we still produce rockets and airplanes.

Protectionism, real stupid.
I wouldn't be surprised if the KVSZ trains have their own teething problems, but are swept under the rug.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 07:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Protectionism, real stupid.I wouldn't be surprised if the KVSZ trains have their own teething problems, but are swept under the rug.
I think the aspect of a cheap labour force, employability and local expertise plays as well a role. Ukraine has limited financial resources to buy expensive foreign trains and will develop this way its railway sector.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #47
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Protectionism, real stupid.
I wouldn't be surprised if the KVSZ trains have their own teething problems, but are swept under the rug.
Nothing to do with that. Ukrainians want KVSZ trains, just common sense.
Why we need pay money to other economy if we may leave them in our country.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:21 PM   #48
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I think the aspect of a cheap labour force, employability and local expertise plays as well a role. Ukraine has limited financial resources to buy expensive foreign trains and will develop this way its railway sector.
Well, resources is not a big issue, but, yes, better to leave money at home.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #49
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Here is a news report on the winter failures of the Rotem trains. I don't understand what's being said, but the diesel locomotive pushing the trainset needs no explanation. Harsh winter conditions are extremely demanding on EMU's, especially where fine snow gets into electrical equipment (not saying this is the problem in this case, though).

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Old February 26th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by SkyGurt View Post
Why we need pay money to other economy if we may leave them in our country.
That /is/ protectionism.

It ultimately leaves Ukranians worse off if it turns out that the KVSZ trains aren't to the same standard as the Rotem units.

However, in order to develop its rail industry, many countries have done the same, so I suppose they are just following precedent.
(I'm looking at YOU, France)
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Old February 26th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #51
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There is nothing wrong with reasonable amount of protectionism, as long it stays "smart".
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Old February 27th, 2013, 02:58 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
That /is/ protectionism.

It ultimately leaves Ukranians worse off if it turns out that the KVSZ trains aren't to the same standard as the Rotem units.

However, in order to develop its rail industry, many countries have done the same, so I suppose they are just following precedent.
(I'm looking at YOU, France)

Ukrainians (Ukrainian people, not just gov) want local trains because they are better technically and more comfortable inside (some guys already tested).
Don't want to say anything bad about Hyundai trains, because they said they will fix all issues and in future we will see less problems with 10 Hyundai trains.
Hope they will be able to find other good markets, but we want our own trains because they are advanced and nice. Hyundai trains have VMAX 160km/h, while KVSZ train has VMAX 220km/h and please check previous pages, next year they will start to design 250km/h trains and double-decker high speed cars.

Last edited by SkyGurt; February 27th, 2013 at 03:04 AM.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #53
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I understand the Ukranian point of view, though I must say that expecting perfection out of a relatively small order of 10 trainsets is expecting alot- typically new trainset designs have teething problems that take a year or two to iron out. It must be said the Alstom pendolino Sm3 trainsets used on the VR in Finland have also had poor winter performance. Hopefully, the Ukraninan designs will fare better with cold weather resistance "engineered-in" from the start.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
I understand the Ukranian point of view, though I must say that expecting perfection out of a relatively small order of 10 trainsets is expecting alot- typically new trainset designs have teething problems that take a year or two to iron out. It must be said the Alstom pendolino Sm3 trainsets used on the VR in Finland have also had poor winter performance. Hopefully, the Ukraninan designs will fare better with cold weather resistance "engineered-in" from the start.
Nope, European quality expectations are high. Take a look at double-decker CityElephants trains we bought. We have never had any issues with them, because Czech Republic knows how to makes great trains, they are genuine professionals.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
That /is/ protectionism.

It ultimately leaves Ukranians worse off if it turns out that the KVSZ trains aren't to the same standard as the Rotem units.

However, in order to develop its rail industry, many countries have done the same, so I suppose they are just following precedent.
(I'm looking at YOU, France)
In that case you may be looking in the wrong direction.

There's plenty of protectionism in this country (as an expat in France I can say this freely...), but IMO not particularly in the railway industry. In the related public procurement of trams it's almost unheard of for a contract to go to someone other than Alstom (OK, CAF won one small order this year), but Canadian Bombardier has swept the majority of regional train orders lately. - Including, even, in Paris where this led to howls of protest, pointing out that Canada would never dream of buying foreign trains.

The TGV trains remain a French affair, but here I would argue that: (1) the Germans and the Japanese don't shop abroad either; and (2) the heavy, strong and simple TGVs are better suited to the long, flat, mixed-traffic distances in France than the complex Velaros and the ultra-light Japanese HS trains.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 10:10 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by SkyGurt View Post
Ukrainians ... want our own trains because the ... KVSZ train has VMAX 220km/h and please check previous pages, next year they will start to design 250km/h trains and double-decker high speed cars.
Why designing trains for 250 km/h when no high speed track for such a speed is being designed and constructed?
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Old February 28th, 2013, 03:14 AM   #57
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Why designing trains for 250 km/h when no high speed track for such a speed is being designed and constructed?
Because KVSZ is a private company and it just produces trains.
If the gov. put an order for 250km/h trains, they will update tracks.
In practice, this means that after train is ready they will update tracks, and don't forget about export.
The same was with Hyundai trains: they updated existed tracks to support them.

Last edited by SkyGurt; February 28th, 2013 at 03:21 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 03:29 AM   #58
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Right time for new pics. Dnipropetrovsk railway station.

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Old February 28th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #59
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Good looking train but why is the platform so low on this side of the tracks and nicely high on the other?
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Old February 28th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #60
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Good looking train but why is the platform so low on this side of the tracks and nicely high on the other?
Thanks. No idea, but probably because of the mix of trains we use: Hyundai, KVSZ, Skoda City Elephant and old trains which will be replaced.
I know this rail station, it has many tracks, maybe ~6 or something.
Also I have never heard about boarding/unboarding complains.

Some pics from this rail station




Last edited by SkyGurt; February 28th, 2013 at 08:46 AM.
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