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Old August 18th, 2012, 11:28 PM   #1
odlum833
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2023 Rugby World Cup Bid

The bid seems to be gathering pace

Quote:
IRFU want GAA grounds for World Cup bid




Croke Park

The Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) has had preliminary discussions with the GAA about the availability of GAA grounds as part of a possible bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

"The IRFU fully understands and respects this process and looks forward to the GAA’s response in due course, while also acknowledging that any bid would be heavily dependent on support from the Government and the GAA," said an IRFU statement.

The number of stadia that would be required for the tournament has not yet been decided, but a key element will be to establish the number of locations and venues available before a feasibility study is undertaken to determine Ireland’s overall capacity to host the tournament.

IRFU Chief Executive Philip Browne said: "The Rugby World Cup in New Zealand showed what a country of four million people could achieve in terms of attracting visitors and showcasing the potential of a country, so an overall Ireland bid is something that the government was keen to discuss with us.

"I think everybody is aware of the benefits from both a social and economic perspective that would come from hosting the third largest sporting event on the globe.

"We are at the early stages of examining the feasibility of a bid and part of this study is to determine the interest and support of Government and other relevant bodies."
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/irf...id-563530.html


Let's keep this thread to track progress.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 04:11 AM   #2
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And the GAA have given serious consideration to opening up several stadia to use for a RWC in 2023 or 27. That's a very good development because we simply don't have enough rugby pitches on the island to host the RWC without the GAA. Indeed the IRB demand that the final be played in a 60,000+ seater stadium which precludes all but Croke Park as venues for the final. If we're going to include Croke Park then we may as well use the second-tier GAA stadia as well. I'm really enthused by this ambition to put a bid in for the right to host this and I'm glad we're doing it by ourselves. Ireland has proven itself as a great host of major sports events like the Special Olympics, Ryder Cup and Tour De France. We have the best supporters in the world as well - the loudest cheer recorded at the London Olympics was from the Irish fans welcoming Katie Taylor to her inaugural Olympic bout and our fans were lauded all over Europe for their attitude and sense of fun at Euro 2012. Ireland RWC 2023 - let's make this happen!
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Old August 19th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #3
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I think we can get this. When do we find out who wins the bid?
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Old August 19th, 2012, 08:37 PM   #4
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I think it'd be great for Ireland to host the RWC, as Dvblvnia says we've got both the facilities and experience so why not?

I also think it'd be pretty cool in 2023 to mark off the 'decade of centenaries' (most of which are pretty divisive) across Ireland with a major all-island and inclusive event.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 04:37 PM   #5
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GAA Central Council backing the bid

Quote:
GAA President Liam O'Neill says decision to back IRFU Rugby World Cup bid is 'of national interest'

Updated: Tuesday, 21 Aug 2012 13:46


Liam O'Neill: 'The organisation has always been willing to put the country first'
GAA president Liam O’Neill has said that Central Council’s decision to back the IRFU’s Rugby World Cup 2023 bid was of ‘national interest.’

At next year’s Congress, the Council will seek permission to use up to six GAA grounds as part of the IRFU bid to stage the 2023 competition.

Croke Park, which would stage the final if the bid was successful, has already been made available to other sports, but a change of rules are needed to make the other grounds available.

The other grounds are thought to be Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Limerick’s Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium and Casement Park, which is due to be redeveloped.

O’Neill told the Independent: "In an organisation of our size, you're going to get different views but it was significant that it (World Cup proposal) was passed unanimously by Central Council.

"The organisation has always been willing to put the country first. We've always been willing to put the national interest ahead of our own narrow interest and we were proud to do it the last time (opening Croke Park)."

RTÉ
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/other/20...ource=NewsWhip
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Old August 21st, 2012, 05:20 PM   #6
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It would be good for the GAA to. A lot of media attention is what they want and they will get it. The Croke Park tour would be good for people coming from all over the globe to see there teams play.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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I'm really glad that they are moving ahead with this bid. The story seemed to have gone cold for a while and I feared that it might just be conjecture!

To credit ere its due, I find it heartening that the GAA have realised that this would be good for all of Ireland including the GAA and its members. For too long they viewed any other sport as Anti-national (including many track and field events at the Olympics) and actively campaigned against participation, which in itself was an incredibly unpatriotic and insular view! Its heartening that they have now decided to engage positively for the benefit of Ireland.

It really is a win-win for the GAA as along with gate revenues and media exposure they will most likely have their stadia upgraded at little cost to themselves.

On another note, the Joint bid to host Euro 2020 (which received a boost from Michel Platini) could serve as an excellent Dry run to honsting an entire competition on our own!

C
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebig C View Post

It really is a win-win for the GAA as along with gate revenues and media exposure they will most likely have their stadia upgraded at little cost to themselves.
That's what they should appreciate. While it's great that an amateur organisation boasts such large arenas (check a list of the 100 largest stadia in Europe by capacity - the GAA has about seven entries) a lot of them are quite Dickensian in their facilities. Hosting the RWC would provide an opportunity to upgrade seating, media, changing, training, floodlighting and bar and restaurant facilities. Major tournaments are about legacy and it would be a great legacy of a rugby world cup if our national games could be played in pitches of the highest possible quality.

Quote:
On another note, the Joint bid to host Euro 2020 (which received a boost from Michel Platini) could serve as an excellent Dry run to honsting an entire competition on our own!

C
Yep, it's past time Ireland started hosting events like the Euros. Our people are fantastic spectators and we can guarantee a great atmosphere at each and every match and provide a warm and welcoming environment for the teams, officials and travelling fans. We also have the infrastructure now - a plethora of hotels, motorways, airports etc. which would enable us to host something like the Euros. Another positive effect of hosting the European Championships and/or Rugby World Cup is that we could get things like Metro North delivered quicker than otherwise - just like people in north Kildare who got lots of road improvements for the Ryder Cup.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:52 PM   #9
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I would love this to happen but I just cant see it happening. What stadia to we have? I can think of only four big enough. The rest are pretty small are they not?
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 12:34 AM   #10
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We have a reasonable amount of large stadia; just about enough for an event like this, I'd say. In the RWC you are allowed to use terraces (In New Zealand some of the stands were just grass banks!), so while we obviously aren't going to use GAA stadiums that are 75% terracing, it would be acceptable to use somewhere like Hill 16. As far as I know the GAA stadiums are:

Croke Park - 82,000
Casement Park (Belfast) - ~40,000 - Being redeveloped and I think it's going to be an all-seater
Páirc Uí Caoimh (Cork) - ~40,000 - Also planned to be redeveloped, presumably with mostly seating.
Gaelic Grounds (Limerick) - 49,000 - Not sure about this one, if I remember correctly millions was spent on this a few years ago and it's still a bit of a tip, mostly terraces.
Fitzgerald Stadium (Kilarney) - 43,000, with only 9,000 seated according to wikipedia. This is probably the worst quality stadium proposed. However, Kilarney is a huge tourist destination and there would be plenty of hotels for fans if it was used.
Pearse Stadium (Galway) - 34,000 - This is presumably in the bid for the Geographical spread. Mostly terraces I think, and would certainly need to be redeveloped.


If we were to get the tournament (Which I don't think is likely, although I can still hope), there would be a reasonable amount of stadia. Nothing compared to England or Japan's bids for the tournaments between now and then, but probably better than New Zealand's. And then again, the Stadium's might not even end up being filled for Japan, so we are in with a shot.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 09:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvblvnia

That's what they should appreciate. While it's great that an amateur organisation boasts such large arenas (check a list of the 100 largest stadia in Europe by capacity - the GAA has about seven entries) a lot of them are quite Dickensian in their facilities. Hosting the RWC would provide an opportunity to upgrade seating, media, changing, training, floodlighting and bar and restaurant facilities. Major tournaments are about legacy and it would be a great legacy of a rugby world cup if our national games could be played in pitches of the highest possible quality.

Yep, it's past time Ireland started hosting events like the Euros. Our people are fantastic spectators and we can guarantee a great atmosphere at each and every match and provide a warm and welcoming environment for the teams, officials and travelling fans. We also have the infrastructure now - a plethora of hotels, motorways, airports etc. which would enable us to host something like the Euros. Another positive effect of hosting the European Championships and/or Rugby World Cup is that we could get things like Metro North delivered quicker than otherwise - just like people in north Kildare who got lots of road improvements for the Ryder Cup.
Dvblvnia makes a very good point with regards to things like Metro North being built. Hosting major international tournaments and boosting infrastructure go hand in hand. It's a quid pro quo kind of thing. It gives the politicians more justification for spending x amount millions on a particular project. While I would love to see metro north being built along with DU the truth is we are probably some 10 to 15 years away from seeing its completion at the least, the next capital review in 2015 will most likely postpone the projects again with a guarantee that one of them will proceed in the following plan. I think we have a great chance of getting the 2023 Rugby World Cup. There is ample hotel accommodation, decent enough stadiums and relatively good road infrastructure between the possible host cities. I think we are entering a new era with the way sporting organisations are looking at tournament hosts. UEFA in particular are looking at having 2020 hosted in at least 15 cities throughout europe because of the recession in the eu at the moment. They realise that for the time being at least building a dozen brand new stadiums doesn't make economic sense in a lot eu countries
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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Below is a post of mine from another forum on this topic;
Quote:
If we team up with Wales we easily have the required capacity.

The stadiums used in NZ were:

Stadium (capacity) no of games
Eden Park (60,000) 11
Westpac (40,000) 8
Waikato (36,000) 3
Rotura (34,000) 3
North Harbour (30,000) 4
Forsyth Barr (30,000) 4
Taranaki Stadium (26,000) 3
McLean Park (22,000) 2
Invercargill (20,000) 3
Whangerei (18,000) 2
Trafalgar Park (18,000) 3
Palmerston (15,000) 2

If we do the same again for us and Wales;

Stadium (capacity) no of games
Croke Park (82,300) 10
Mellennium Stadium (74,500) 6
Aviva Stadium (50,000) 6
Renovated Páirc Uí Chaoimh (50,000) 6
Renovated Casement Park (40,000) 6
Renovated Pearse Stadium (30,000) 5
Thomond Park (26,000) 4
Cardiff City Stadium (26,000) 3
Renovated Ravenhill (20,000) 2

Comparing the two gives us (can a mod who knows how the tables work fix this, these are meant to be three columns side by side (No of Games (Irl) being in the middle));

Capacity______________No of Games (Irl)_______No of Games (NZ)
>74,000____________________16___________________0
60,000 – 73,999______________0___________________11
45,000 – 59,999_____________12___________________0
30,000 – 44,999_____________11___________________22
20,000 – 29,999______________9___________________8
<20,000_____________________0___________________7

Assuming the number of games assigned to each stadium is as I have said above, that gives a total capacity across the 48 games of 2,482,000 and an average attendance of 51,708. And thats being a bit conservative with the stadium renovations (ie. Pearse Stadium may end up with more than 30k, Thomond may get new stands at each end, etc.). We would have capacity for a higher average attendance than in France in 2007.

Out of those, only four are GAA stadia, the Gaelic Grounds (vast concrete terraces) and Semple Stadium (no corporate facilities) are not suitable. Five stadia (including the big three) are already build and all the ones that would require major works (knocking existing stands and building new ones) have such plans in the pipeline already. Páirc Uí Chaoimh and Casement Park may be rebuilt in the next decade regardless, because the GAA are looking to get income from these on non-match days (so looking to host conferences, concerts, etc.).

Wales' group could mainly be based in Cardiff, with two group games being played in Ireland. I have given them 5 group games in the Millennium (4 Welsh games plus one more), a quarter final on that side of the draw there also, and three smaller group games in the Cardiff City Stadium.
For a single Irish bid Semple Stadium and the Gaelic Grounds would replace the two in Cardiff without effecting our overall capacity too much. Despite this, I dont think we would be able to host without the Welsh because without them we only have one stadium >55,000, Croker. This puts a lot of pressure on it because it will have to host all the knock out games plus some group matches also. In 2007 the French used the Mellennium Stadium to host 3 pool matches and 1 quarter-final match, plus two group games were played at Murrayfield. Without the Mellennium Stadium and Murrayfield, Frances second biggest stadium would have been the Stade Vélodrome which has a capacity of just under 60,000. Cant see the IRB choosing us as hosts if our second biggest stadium only holds 53,000.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Below is a post of mine from another forum on this topic;

For a single Irish bid Semple Stadium and the Gaelic Grounds would replace the two in Cardiff without effecting our overall capacity too much. Despite this, I dont think we would be able to host without the Welsh because without them we only have one stadium >55,000, Croker. This puts a lot of pressure on it because it will have to host all the knock out games plus some group matches also. In 2007 the French used the Mellennium Stadium to host 3 pool matches and 1 quarter-final match, plus two group games were played at Murrayfield. Without the Mellennium Stadium and Murrayfield, Frances second biggest stadium would have been the Stade Vélodrome which has a capacity of just under 60,000. Cant see the IRB choosing us as hosts if our second biggest stadium only holds 53,000.
Hey Pete

I really don't see why we need to include Wales as part of our bid. The highlighted example illustrating the capacities of NZ vs Irish Stadia if anything just highlights how much additional capacity we have.

With the exception of Eden Park, many of the NZ venues weren't exactly would class, and they seemed to perform fairly well. Likewise, even though we have a large gulf in capacity between Croke Park and the next Stadium, we seem to have a much larger number of "middle ground" Stadia.

C
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebig C View Post
Hey Pete

I really don't see why we need to include Wales as part of our bid. The highlighted example illustrating the capacities of NZ vs Irish Stadia if anything just highlights how much additional capacity we have.

With the exception of Eden Park, many of the NZ venues weren't exactly would class, and they seemed to perform fairly well. Likewise, even though we have a large gulf in capacity between Croke Park and the next Stadium, we seem to have a much larger number of "middle ground" Stadia.

C
The 2015 RWC in England will set the bar far higher than the 2011 competition in terms of bums on seats. NZ only got hosting the RWC because they are NZ and they dominate world rugby. The IRB wont We can expect large numbers of English, Welsh and French fans coming here and the IRB will want to see as many accommodated as possible, using the Millennium Stadium and selling 25,000 extra tickets for six matches would be a huge boost to our bid. Our only competition for hosting rights in 2023 will be the Italians and they have four soccer stadia which can hold over 58,000. We would probably have the required capacity on our own, but the Italians would blow us out of the water. Going it alone without the Welsh would be very foolish imo.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #15
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I think the way the IRFU are shaping up they are going to use the Millenium Stadiun in Cardiff and Murrayfield in Edinburgh like France in 2007.

The reason I say that is because they want to use 6 GAA Stadiums;
Croke Park
Pairc Ui (redeveloped)
Casement Park (redeveloped)
Gaelic Grounds
Fitzgerald Stadium
Pearse Stadium

The other stadiums are probably:
Aviva Stadium
Thomond Park
Ravenhill
RDS Arena

I can't think of any other grounds that would be suitable with stadiums or cities that could facilitate the World Cup. Therefore, they will probably use Millenium and Murrayfield. The World Cup always has 12 stadiums.

I don't think Italy are a major threat with the Serie A soccer in full swing around September and October.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 06:06 AM   #16
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I think the quarter finals will be in;
Croke Park
Aviva Stadium
Pairc Ui Chaoimh (redeveloped)
Millenium Stadium or Casement Park

Semi finals;
Croke Park
Aviva Stadium

3/4 place play off:
Aviva Stadium

Final:
Croke Park

Therefore the other GAA grounds would not need much of an upgrade because terracing is acceptable for pool matches.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boca J View Post
I think the quarter finals will be in;
Croke Park
Aviva Stadium
Pairc Ui Chaoimh (redeveloped)
Millenium Stadium or Casement Park

Semi finals;
Croke Park
Aviva Stadium

3/4 place play off:
Aviva Stadium

Final:
Croke Park

Therefore the other GAA grounds would not need much of an upgrade because terracing is acceptable for pool matches.
Casement Park has recently been awarded millions to upgrade to a 40-50k all seater and will in future be hosting the Ulster Finals. Therefore its a shoe-in to be a host stadium.

Likewise, Windsor Park is being expanded to 20k all seater. I know there may be some political issues but the IFA may be open to persuasion particularly given the potential revenues.

Also, Tallaght Stadium in Dublin is only half complete but given that its Council owned there is a chance the two goalend stands may be completed bring capacity to 10k. The architects incorporated provision to expand it to 18k!

C
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Old September 5th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #18
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If the World Cup was to go ahead in Ireland in 2023 there are probably 2 scenarios on how the Rugby World Cup might look. The first Rugby World Cup would be an All-Ireland World Cup where all games are played in Ireland. The second scenario would be to use 10 stadiums in Ireland with the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff and Murrayfield in Edinburgh. I think the second scenario will probably be used by the IRFU as them have only named 6 GAA stadiums that they would like to use and I can only think of 4 possible rugby stadiums that could be used.

The four rugby stadiums would probably be Aviva Stadium, Thomond Park, Ravenhill Stadium and RDS Arena. The 6 GAA Stadiums named are Croke Park Dublin, Pairc Ui Chaoimh Cork, Casement Park Belfast, Gaelic Grounds Limerick, Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney and Pearse Stadium Galway.

The other 2 stadiums I picked to make up the numbers to 12 stadiums are McHale Park in Castlebar and Nowlan Park in Kilkenny. But these 2 stadiums could be replaced by any other 2 suitable stadiums as long as the capacity is greater than 15,000 (minimum capacity used in New Zealand).

The second scenario would have all the same stadiums except Millennium stadium and Murrayfield would be used instead of McHale Park and Nowlan Park. The same format would probably be used as the World Cup in France in 2007 where Murrayfield got 2 pool games and Millennium Stadium got 3 pool games and a quarterfinal.

The following 12 stadiums could be used for the tournament:

Croke Park (82,300) - 7 games
Aviva Stadium (51,700) - 7 games
Pairc Ui Chaoimh (45,000) - 5 games
Casement Park (40,000) – 5 games
Thomond Park (26,500) - 4 games
Fitzgerald Stadium (43,000) - 4 games
Pearse Stadium (36,000) - 4 games
Gaelic Ground (49,500) – 3 games
Ravenhill Stadium (18,000) - 3 games
RDS Arena (18,500) - 2 games
McHale Park (42,000) - 2 games
Nowlan Park (30,000) – 2 games

I have given Croke Park and Aviva Stadium only 7 games each. This was done to spread the pool matches around the country and gives the pitches a chance to recover for the semi finals and finals. I also gave Thomond Park 4 games and Gaelic Grounds 3 games. I think 7 games is enough games for Limerick to cope with and since Thomond Park is the home of Munster rugby I gave it the extra game. I may be lower capacity but Thomond Park is a globally famous rugby playing sports field and deserves it on that basis.

To allow for the GAA All-Ireland football final to be played on the 3rd Sunday in September the opening ceremony of the Rugby World Cup would be held as normal the Friday. It only takes Croke Park 24 hours to convert the rugby pitch back to a Gaelic football pitch, allowing for the All-Ireland football final to take place that Sunday. There would be no rugby games played in Dublin that Sunday to overcrowding in the capital.

If we use the same groups as the 2011 World Cup and start the tournament on Friday the 15th September 2023 this is how the tournament might look:

Pool A:
Australia
Ireland
Italy
USA
Russia

Sep 15 Ireland v USA......................Croke Park
Sep 16 Australia v Italy...................Pearse Stadium
Sep 20 Russia v USA.......................McHale Park
Sep 22 Australia v Ireland...............Croke Park
Sep 24 Italy v Russia......................RDS Arena
Sep 27 Australia v USA...................Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 30 Ireland v Russia..................Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Oct 3 Italy v USA...........................Gaelic Grounds
Oct 7 Australia v Russia..................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 8 Ireland v Italy.......................Aviva Stadium

Pool B:
England
Argentina
Scotland
Georgia
Romania

Sep 16 Scotland v Romania...............Thomond Park
Sep 16 England v Argentina...............Aviva Stadium
Sep 20 Scotland v Georgia.................Gaelic Grounds
Sep 23 Argentina v Romania...............Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 24 England v Georgia..................Casement Park
Sep 30 England v Romania.................Thomond Park
Oct 1 Argentina v Scotland..................Aviva Stadium
Oct 4 Georgia v Romania....................McHale Park
Oct 7 England v Scotland....................Croke Park
Oct 8 Argentina v Georgia...................Pearse Stadium

Pool C:
New Zealand
France
Tonga
Canada
Japan

Sep 17 New Zealand v Tonga...............Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Sep 17 France v Japan.........................Casement Park
Sep 21 Tonga v Canada.......................Nowlan Park
Sep 23 New Zealand v Japan................Casement Park
Sep 26 France v Canada......................Pearse Stadium
Sep 29 Tonga v Japan.........................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 1 New Zealand v France................Croke Park
Oct 3 Canada v Japan..........................Nowlan Park
Oct 7 France v Tonga..........................Thomond Park
Oct 8 New Zealand v Canada...............Pairc Ui Chaoimh

Pool D:
South Africa
Wales
Samoa
Fiji
Namibia

Sep 16 Fiji v Namibia..........................Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 17 South Africa v Wales...............Aviva Stadium
Sep 20 Samoa v Namibia....................RDS Arena
Sep 23 South Africa v Fiji....................Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Sep 24 Wales v Samoa.......................Thomond Park
Sep 28 South Africa v Namibia............Gaelic Grounds
Oct 1 Fiji v Samoa..............................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 2 Wales v Namibia.......................Pearse Stadium
Oct 6 South Africa v Samoa................Fitzgerald Stadium
Oct 8 Wales v Fiji..............................Casement Park

Quarter Finals:
Oct 14 New Zealand v Argentina………….Pairc Ui Chaiomh
Oct 14 England v France......................Aviva Stadium
Oct 15 Australia v South Africa.............Casement Park
Oct 15 Ireland v Wales........................Croke Park

Semi Finals:
Oct 21 Ireland v France…………………….Croke Park
Oct 22 New Zealand v Australia............Aviva Stadium

3rd/4th Place Play-off:
Oct 27 France v Australia.....................Aviva Stadium

Rugby World Cup Final:
Oct 29 Ireland v New Zealand...............Croke Park
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Old September 6th, 2012, 01:35 AM   #19
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Fantastic breakdown of where and how the World Cup can be held in Ireland. That post convinces me even more that Ireland can pull this one off quite well. While we aren't on the same scale as Italy, South Africa, Argentina or USA/Canada we certainly do still have the facilities necessary for the staging of a RWC. Hotels may be a bit of an issue in places like Galway, Limerick and Kilkenny but by 2023 there's bound to be significantly more hotel rooms in the country, particularly in places due to get a boost from hosting matches (then again, Galway managed to host the Volvo Ocean Race quite soon before the Races so it's possible that current capacity would be sufficient for 4 rugby matches over time).

Ireland also happens to be the hub for global rugby. Dublin could be described as the world capital of rugby union (I might put that in the Notable Features thread ) as the IRB, Rabodirect Pro12, ERC etc. are all based in Ballsbridge, Dublin. Hopefully that is another factor which would favour Ireland. The suits who run world rugby have an intimate awareness of the charms and attributes of the island and regularly see their sport played to the very highest standard across the street by the occupants of the RDS to packed and often raucous crowds. Perhaps that could give us the edge over Argentina or USA/Canada.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #20
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I remember I read somewhere that perhaps from 2019 the RWC will be a 24 team tournament. If it's like that everything could change for any bid.
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